A New Project for Modern WMC Development

Discussion of getting WMC to work on Windows 10 (unsupported)
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DavidinCT

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Re: A New Project for Modern WMC Development

#101

Post by DavidinCT » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:55 pm

IT Troll wrote:They logged in yesterday but haven't posted in 3 months. Project website says it was released 16th August and is in pre-release testing. :eh:

Size is 1357 KB, so something exists.

https://windows10mediacenter.com/modernmedia/ui+
Just wish we could hear a update from W10MC, like if a major issue was found, or if it was a deal breaker issue. Or just no time to work on it.

I have not heard from anyone who has a copy for testing, or anything like that. A file size could be anything but, personally after all this time, it's really starting to feel like vaporware.

At least a little update of progress from the OP would keep us going on this...
-Dave
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#102

Post by W10MC » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:50 am

The release is imminent. Thanks to all for expressing your concerns!
-Mike

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#103

Post by newfiend » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:29 pm

W10MC wrote:The release is imminent. Thanks to all for expressing your concerns!
Thanks for posting. There is interest in what you are working on. I would say a lot of people would like to see something fresh. Hopefully it will spur some donations for all your hard work. Looking forward to it's release. Let me know if I can be of any help with testing on a Windows 8.1 WMC machine.
newfiend~

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#104

Post by jachin99 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:25 am

I'm glad to hear it :thumbup: There are actually quite a few people who aren't on these forums watching this as well so any lack of chatter here doesn't necessarily reflect a lack of general interest.

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#105

Post by MILGEO » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:31 am

I'm glad to hear there is still hope. I've book marked this page and regularly check it. I have a lot of on content on WMC and it took a while to get the family used to using it. Even though the interface hasn't changed, that doesn't bother me at all. It's like an old friend. I don't want to be running Windows 7 after support ends and really hate the thought of having to wait to the last minute to choose and have to set up a different option!

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#106

Post by DavidinCT » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:57 pm

W10MC wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:50 am
The release is imminent. Thanks to all for expressing your concerns!
Thanks for the update ! Really looking forward to seeing this...
-Dave
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#107

Post by DavidinCT » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:57 pm

W10MC wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:50 am
The release is imminent. Thanks to all for expressing your concerns!
Thanks for the update ! Really looking forward to seeing this...
-Dave
Twitter @TheCoolDave

Windows Media Center certified and WMC MVP 2010 - 2012

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#108

Post by the stranger » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:39 pm

What is the business model for this software? When it's complete, will it require a license...or will it just be donations like NextPVR?

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#109

Post by W10MC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:45 am

ModernMedia UI+ has officially launched!

Read the full introduction and join the discussion here.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's feedback.
-Mike

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#110

Post by saxnix » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:25 pm

Congratulations on the release!

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#111

Post by W10MC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:45 pm

saxnix wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:25 pm
Congratulations on the release!
Thanks!
-Mike

Windows 10 Media Center Community
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#112

Post by the stranger » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:29 am

I'm fairly new to this site...and I have been misunderstanding this project...I thought it was an entirely new program...but now I see it's a supporting program that allows more user control of WMC settings.

As it stands, my WMC is still glitchy and missing some functionality after the last Win10 update.

I wish someone would just support basic functionality of WMC in Win10...provide new install files when necessary after updates...I would donate money to that.

The new Modern UI project looks cool and I don't mean to be a debbie downer....but I need to get the basics working first.

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#113

Post by MILGEO » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:31 am

I guess I also have misunderstood what this project was about. I didn't realize that their is a version of WMC which works with Windows 10 (if it exists). At least not one which was stable and hadn't been put together with temporary tweaks that get broken by Windows updates. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. I was expecting a new version of WMC or something similar which would be compatible with Windows 10. I had hoped that after it's completion that it would be safe to upgrade a Windows 7 PC with WMC to Windows 10 and have it continue to run with existing content and settings with maybe just a need for EPG-123 if it's not already on the machine. I've spent a couple of hours trying to clarify what exactly this project will do including checking through the "download WMC for Windows 10" link, and have not found the download button or discussion of a stable version of it on MDL. Am I missing something or is there something still to come which would be close to what I'm describing?

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#114

Post by jjwatmyself » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:33 am

MILGEO wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:31 am
I guess I also have misunderstood what this project was about. I didn't realize that their is a version of WMC which works with Windows 10 (if it exists). At least not one which was stable and hadn't been put together with temporary tweaks that get broken by Windows updates. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. I was expecting a new version of WMC or something similar which would be compatible with Windows 10. I had hoped that after it's completion that it would be safe to upgrade a Windows 7 PC with WMC to Windows 10 and have it continue to run with existing content and settings with maybe just a need for EPG-123 if it's not already on the machine. I've spent a couple of hours trying to clarify what exactly this project will do including checking through the "download WMC for Windows 10" link, and have not found the download button or discussion of a stable version of it on MDL. Am I missing something or is there something still to come which would be close to what I'm describing?
For WMC I recommend Windows 7.

I you are ready to move away from Windows 7 then I recommend HDHomeRun's DVR platform or an internet streaming service like Sling.

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#115

Post by MILGEO » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:45 pm

jjwatmyself, Thanks for the response. So am I correct in assuming that this project is not ever going to be a newer version of WMC that will work on Windows 10? If so I have already considered either Plex DVR or HD Homerun DVR. I don't know if either one will allow me to record DRM content which I currently can do with WMC and Cablevision. I know that some cable companies did not ever allow this for premium channels. I not only have a large amount of content on my HTPC but also use 2 Ceton Echo extenders for other TV's in the house. From what I've seen on You Tube and other research, neither Homerun or Plex will be able to use them. Also their is the learning curve for the wife which it took quite a bit to ween from the cable DVR's. I have 3 Logitech Harmony's which 2 were really bought to make it easy for her to go from TV to TV and work the same way. If I can configure one of the other options to play the content which is in WMC (.wtv), it won't be as bad. I don't think an upgrade would remove the files on my hard drives, but might make them unusable. I don't think it's wise to be running Windows 7 on the network after support ends. I'm thinking of trying a short term licence for Plex DVR and seeing how it works. I recently added a separate hard drive to my HTPC just for this reason. If you are correct about the end of WMC, I'm really disappointed that someone can't figure out a way to code a similar program to work on Windows 10. Do you know what people are referring to when they talk about WMC running on their Windows 10 machines?

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#116

Post by Space » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:17 pm

The only PC-based DVR software that works on Windows 10 that MAY someday be able to record DRM is SiliconDust's HDHomerun DVR. Currently you are able to view live TV that is DRM protected, but it does not support recording of that content (it's supposedly coming, but it's possible it may never materialize).

People have hacked WMC to work on Windows 10, but it does not support DRM anymore, and probably never will. This is what people are talking about when they say they are running WMC on Win10. These are people that do not have to deal with DRM (they record over-the-air TV or cable channels that don't have DRM).

Cablevision doesn't exist anymore, it is now known as Altice, but several years ago when I was with Cablevision, most channels were not DRM protected, but many of the channels in the second tier were, in addition to ALL the premium channels (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Encore, etc.).

The main reason DRM protection is bad is that you cannot watch/record it on almost any PC based DVR, but even on those that can record it (WMC, and maybe someday HDHomerun DVR) it can still be a problem if you ever have a hardware issue and need to replace parts (hard drive, graphics card, motherboard). In this case it may cause Playready (used with WMC, but any DRM DVR will have something similar) to no longer recognize your PC as the same PC and will not allow you to view your old DRM recordings. The less channels in your cable lineup that have DRM, the better (which is why FiOS is better than Altice in this respect, since they only have DRM on HBO, Cinemax, and all Fox-owned cable channels).

Even if you did find something to replace WMC on Win7, you would still have to keep it around until you no longer wanted to watch any of the DRM recordings that were made with it.

As for extenders, they will be junk if you move away from WMC. No other DVR supports them. I don't know about HDHomerun DVR supporting any kind of extender, but I would be surprised if that happened any time soon.

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#117

Post by DavidinCT » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:08 pm

Space wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:17 pm
The only PC-based DVR software that works on Windows 10 that MAY someday be able to record DRM is SiliconDust's HDHomerun DVR. Currently you are able to view live TV that is DRM protected, but it does not support recording of that content (it's supposedly coming, but it's possible it may never materialize).

People have hacked WMC to work on Windows 10, but it does not support DRM anymore, and probably never will. This is what people are talking about when they say they are running WMC on Win10. These are people that do not have to deal with DRM (they record over-the-air TV or cable channels that don't have DRM).
The big problem with it is, The people who do the HACK on WMC are overseas, and don't deal with the DRM that we have here in the US. I bet if they lived in the US and loved WMC, they might of figured out a way to get it but, Microsoft keeps changing 10 so it might not ever be a solid option.

I know other programs use WMC in the background for DRM so they can play back content... I wonder if WMC on 10 could do the same with HDR's software so it could live on 10...
-Dave
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#118

Post by MILGEO » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:59 am

Thanks for the response guys. This is not very encouraging news but is helpful in telling me what I will have to do. For the record, I know that Cablevision was bought by Altice but my bills still say Cablevision and that's who my bank sends payments to. I not only was but still am able to record and view all my channels including premium channels (HBO, Starz, Showtime). Ironically the cable company forced me less than a year ago to add Showtime for an extra $5 per month if I wanted to keep the silver package which I've had for 31 years. This was not long after 2 other price increases and I seriously considered dropping the premium channels altogether. There are some series that we like on HBO (West World for one) that made me reconsider for now anyway. And they have changed the pricing structure so that if I dropped just the premium channels while keeping most others, it would only save about $15 per month. I would be hard pressed to get the equivalent from streaming services for that price. So I guess I can either just keep running Windows 7 leaving my network vulnerable or start a new set up using HD Homerun DVR. I could start using the HD Homerun DVR at the same time and at least catch up watching any series shows already recorded while recording new content using the HD Homerun on the new drive I recently added to my HTPC. Maybe even record premium channel movies (if that's possible) hoping that they will play on Windows 10.

I can't help but wonder just how risky it is to keep Windows 7 running after support ends and if a VPN would offer enough protection if any.

I saw an interview with the CEO of Silicon Dust from CES with Lon Seiben of Lon.tv channel on You Tube in which he states that they will be offering the ability to play and record DRM content soon. That was in January. This has to be allowed by the individual cable providers from what I understood.

Dave, I'm wondering what other programs can play WMC in the background as you mentioned?

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#119

Post by IT Troll » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:07 am

MILGEO wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:59 am
So I guess I can either just keep running Windows 7 leaving my network vulnerable or start a new set up using HD Homerun DVR.

I can't help but wonder just how risky it is to keep Windows 7 running after support ends and if a VPN would offer enough protection if any.
Windows 7 won’t suddenly become vulnerable once support ends in 2020. There is a small chance that new vulnerabilities are discovered and exploited after this date. However, if one of these is really serious Microsoft may still release an out-of-support patch; they’ve done this previously for XP (for WannaCry).

In a home network setup, a Windows 7 machine performing a dedicated task like Media Center should not pose a significant risk. Your router is your first line of defence and so the thing you want to be most concerned about securing. Ensure all the other devices on your network are up-to-date and secure. The weakest link in your network is likely to be some “smart” IoT device which has never been updated. Remember that there can be hardware-level vulnerabilities like Intel’s Mangement Engine which can provide a back door regardless of the Windows version.

A VPN will be of benefit if you are remotely accessing anything on your network whilst away from the house. However, this is different to the more common VPN service that people use to browse the web with privacy and anonymity. A web browsing VPN isn’t going to be of direct benefit to Media Center.

In short, the operating system you run is only part of the story and as such you can continue to run Windows 7 for many years so long as you do so with care and consider all aspect of your network security.

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#120

Post by jjwatmyself » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:31 pm

Keep in mind that one day the guide on WMC will stop working.

HdHomeRun DVR is pretty good as well as the DRM support. I thought that the recording and playback of DRM was working but may be wrong. I an not aware of that being a function of which cable provider you have.

It's inexpensive and worth playing with in my opinion. I ran it on a Synology DS211j and was flawless running streams to many clients simultaneously. I think I tested 3 recorded and 3 live simultaneously.

What clients do you have in your home today? Other than live TV and a backlog of dvr content, do you use WMC for anything else?

HDHomerun is supported on Android, Xbox One, Windows 10, IoS, Nvidia shield, and fire TV. The client is good, but not great in my opinion. I'm not personally a fan of using a PC on a TV and prefer some kind of box that is couch remote friendly.

I cancelled cable TV in the end and tested all the big name live TV streaming services. I settled on Sling sure to platform support. I use it on Windows 10, Xbox One, Android, LG and Roku. It's so easy and my girlfriend had an easy time making the change. They even have an offer for a free Roku when you sign up or discount on higher end model.

I augment Sling with Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, and Vudu on all the devices mentioned. The choice is amazing and I recommend above a cable TV lineup hands down. At one home a 10Mbps Internet service is fine for two to three devices watching. Don't believe what you're cable company tell you on bandwidth.

Bottom line is that WMC on Windows 7 is perfected and the xbox 360 extender made it even better. But it's a frozen in time ecosystem. SilisonDust have done a great job, they are not moving fast enough and have not matched WMC. The advancements in streaming services is incredible and worth looking into.

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