The only thing that I don't like about the Xbox 360 as an extender is in the playback of DVD and Blu Ray rips. I would like playback quality as close as possible to what you would get off of the disc, including the various audio formats. I don't want to transcode. For the TV's in the bedrooms transcoding may be OK, but I need a high quality system for the main theater room.
What are the pros and cons of using an HTPC connected directly to the TV and connected via the network to a server pc? Both, the server and the HTPC would be running Windows 7, probably 64 bit. The media center would be WMC 7.
- Would the HTPC use the WMC in the server pc, just as an extender would.........same UI?
- Would the HTPC need to use its own WMC?
- I assume that the HTPC would be able to playback the native ripped format or any other format that it has been re-encoded too?
- Are there any limitations........I read that an HTPC cannot view live TV, whereas the Xbox 360 can........is this true?
- Now, because I only need the high quality video and audio in the theater room, would it make more sense to use the Xbox 360 for all of the TV stuff, photos, music, etc and run an HDMI cable from the server pc directly to the TV (or AVR).......no need for an HTPC then. I would need a good quality video card, however and I'm not sure about running 50' of HDMI cable from the server to the TV.
If I would need a two box solution to get the functionality of the Xbox 360 for live TV, etc. and an HTPC for quality HD video then it would probably make more sense to get an XBox 360 and a Dune player. The Dune player is supposed to be able play nearly all types of video formats and it gets very good reviews.
Any other ideas?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg
Need Help: Xbox 360 vs HTPC
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Greg
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adam1991
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What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
Plug the HTPC directly into your main TV, and go.
If you are storing shows on a server somewhere, point 7MC to the server's storage location as a location where TV shows are stored. You can't record to the server, but 7MC will happily play shows from the server location if they're there.
There's no downside to hooking the PC directly to the TV.
If your 7MC is remote from the TV you want to watch it on, an extender is your best bet. Windows cannot act as an extender. Can you set up a second 7MC box and watch the shows that the first 7MC box recorded? It's a bit of work and you can't watch live TV and it isn't a great setup overall.
Since you need the HQ stuff only in one place, make that the place where your 7MC lives.
It sounds like you're using a remote server to record TV; you can do that if you're using extenders and are just watching recorded TV. But you want a PC on your TV so you can do more, so just make that PC the recording PC as well. You can still store your movies on your server; 7MC will find them just fine.
Plug the HTPC directly into your main TV, and go.
If you are storing shows on a server somewhere, point 7MC to the server's storage location as a location where TV shows are stored. You can't record to the server, but 7MC will happily play shows from the server location if they're there.
There's no downside to hooking the PC directly to the TV.
If your 7MC is remote from the TV you want to watch it on, an extender is your best bet. Windows cannot act as an extender. Can you set up a second 7MC box and watch the shows that the first 7MC box recorded? It's a bit of work and you can't watch live TV and it isn't a great setup overall.
Since you need the HQ stuff only in one place, make that the place where your 7MC lives.
It sounds like you're using a remote server to record TV; you can do that if you're using extenders and are just watching recorded TV. But you want a PC on your TV so you can do more, so just make that PC the recording PC as well. You can still store your movies on your server; 7MC will find them just fine.
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Danno100
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Another PC (HTPC) can not act as an extender. The HTPC would use its own UI. The HTPC can reference all the same content (video, music, photo's, recorded TV) as the server. Unless you purchase other hardware/software, the HTPC can not access the TV tuners (live TV) from the server.
In my house, I did run 40 feet of HDMI and USB (for the remote) from my WMC server to both my projector AND my TV using a HDMI splitter. Both also have a XBOX 360. The benefit is that at least one at a time, I get full server functionality (no issues with Bluray or live TV) on either device. HDMI cable is fairly cheap. Works like a charm.
At one time I had one server (with four TV tuners) for all content, and two HTPC's. Waste of time, money, and electricity.
In my house, I did run 40 feet of HDMI and USB (for the remote) from my WMC server to both my projector AND my TV using a HDMI splitter. Both also have a XBOX 360. The benefit is that at least one at a time, I get full server functionality (no issues with Bluray or live TV) on either device. HDMI cable is fairly cheap. Works like a charm.
At one time I had one server (with four TV tuners) for all content, and two HTPC's. Waste of time, money, and electricity.
Last edited by Danno100 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Home Theater/Automation Enthusiast
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Greg
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Thanks adam1991and Danno100 for your explanations and advice. I now understand what can and cannot be done.
So, the possibilities, as I see it are:
1. use one box as server with tuners and HTPC with WMC 7 for the primary TV and place this box near the TV. This will allow more options as far as quality DVD / BD playback are concerned. Xbox 360's can be placed in other rooms to extend WMC 7 and get access to the server.
- PROS: quality DVD / BD playback, one box for the primary TV, web surfing, etc.
- CONS: as this will be a server it will contain, potentially, a significant number of hard drives - NOISE is the
issue
2. Keep the server with tuners in a remote location (original plan) and run a long HDMI cable to the primary TV and use Xbox 360 to access WMC7 for all live and recorded TV, music, photos and switch inputs on the TV to watch DVD / BD rips
- PROS: keeps noisy server isolated, still able to achieve quality DVD / BD playback
- CONS: must switch inputs between Xbox 360 and HDMI from server on TV or AVR, need to remotely control
the server to select and output video playback - possibly, RF keyboard??
3. Just use Xbox 360's in all locations (including the primary TV) to access a remote server with WMC 7.
- PROS: one box solution (not including extenders)
- CONS: compromised DVD / BD playback
So, one other question:
How compromised is MP4 compared to an optical disk playback? Are you giving up much playing back through the Xbox 360?
Thanks again for your advice and comments,
Greg
So, the possibilities, as I see it are:
1. use one box as server with tuners and HTPC with WMC 7 for the primary TV and place this box near the TV. This will allow more options as far as quality DVD / BD playback are concerned. Xbox 360's can be placed in other rooms to extend WMC 7 and get access to the server.
- PROS: quality DVD / BD playback, one box for the primary TV, web surfing, etc.
- CONS: as this will be a server it will contain, potentially, a significant number of hard drives - NOISE is the
issue
2. Keep the server with tuners in a remote location (original plan) and run a long HDMI cable to the primary TV and use Xbox 360 to access WMC7 for all live and recorded TV, music, photos and switch inputs on the TV to watch DVD / BD rips
- PROS: keeps noisy server isolated, still able to achieve quality DVD / BD playback
- CONS: must switch inputs between Xbox 360 and HDMI from server on TV or AVR, need to remotely control
the server to select and output video playback - possibly, RF keyboard??
3. Just use Xbox 360's in all locations (including the primary TV) to access a remote server with WMC 7.
- PROS: one box solution (not including extenders)
- CONS: compromised DVD / BD playback
So, one other question:
How compromised is MP4 compared to an optical disk playback? Are you giving up much playing back through the Xbox 360?
Thanks again for your advice and comments,
Greg
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adam1991
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You've got it.
I watch the actual physical DVD, so I can't help you there.
Regarding #2, is switching inputs on the TV--one for recorded TV, one for movies--that big of a hassle? Frankly, I like #2. Get an RF keyboard, or get a setup that runs the IR/kb/mouse signals down an ethernet cable to the remote server, and it's problem solved.
I watch the actual physical DVD, so I can't help you there.
Regarding #2, is switching inputs on the TV--one for recorded TV, one for movies--that big of a hassle? Frankly, I like #2. Get an RF keyboard, or get a setup that runs the IR/kb/mouse signals down an ethernet cable to the remote server, and it's problem solved.
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Ack
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Adam - you've piqued my interest; what kind of setup runs the IR/kb/mouse signals down an ethernet cable? I may just be in a dense mode but I haven't heard of this or think of a way it might be done. It sounds interesting.adam1991 wrote:You've got it.
I watch the actual physical DVD, so I can't help you there.
Regarding #2, is switching inputs on the TV--one for recorded TV, one for movies--that big of a hassle? Frankly, I like #2. Get an RF keyboard, or get a setup that runs the IR/kb/mouse signals down an ethernet cable to the remote server, and it's problem solved.
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adam1991
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Well, I dunno offhand, but I know I've heard of it.
If you can simply get a long USB extension and route it appropriately, you can use a wireless kb/mouse combo like one of these and simply plug the RF receiver into the extension cable:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/722vknb
switch inputs on the TV and now you're watching the remote server, and can control it accordingly.
If your remote server is running XBMC or Boxee or whatever third party software to handle your rips, you can also get an RF remote that will handle the whole shooting match: local IR for the XBox, RF for watching movies. TV source button for switching between them. Keyboard/mouse combo is there for the few times you need it (I use the tiny Rii unit, or one just like it).
If you can simply get a long USB extension and route it appropriately, you can use a wireless kb/mouse combo like one of these and simply plug the RF receiver into the extension cable:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/722vknb
switch inputs on the TV and now you're watching the remote server, and can control it accordingly.
If your remote server is running XBMC or Boxee or whatever third party software to handle your rips, you can also get an RF remote that will handle the whole shooting match: local IR for the XBox, RF for watching movies. TV source button for switching between them. Keyboard/mouse combo is there for the few times you need it (I use the tiny Rii unit, or one just like it).
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TheOsburnFamil
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If you plan on watching blurays via the Xbox, the BEST you will be able to do is to rip them down to wmv9.wma10 files. This is the only way to get the video with 5.1 audio and a high bitrate. wmvs can go up to 15mb bitrate at 1080p. Mp4s can only do about half that (as far as what the Xbox can reasonably handle anyway).
So, if you don't need a shared guide/dvr.. Go the htpc route. Make it a small one with just the essentials and store all the data on a server that can be stuck in a basement or something.
So, if you don't need a shared guide/dvr.. Go the htpc route. Make it a small one with just the essentials and store all the data on a server that can be stuck in a basement or something.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?
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Greg
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Thanks for the info. Do you have any experience how this compares to the physical disc? I know it won't be the same, just looking for reference.TheOsburnFamil wrote:If you plan on watching blurays via the Xbox, the BEST you will be able to do is to rip them down to wmv9.wma10 files. This is the only way to get the video with 5.1 audio and a high bitrate. wmvs can go up to 15mb bitrate at 1080p. Mp4s can only do about half that (as far as what the Xbox can reasonably handle anyway).
Thanks,
Greg
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TheOsburnFamil
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I'm just about done going through my entire bd collection using dvdfab's bluray ripper option to Xbox and selecting the wmv.wma10 profile, removing HD audio for 5.1 digital and 15mb nitrate for all the rips, and keeling the resolution at 1080o.
Depending on the movie, the result is either near perfect or barely noticeable.
Reasons are 1) some movies don't go above 15mb anyway 2) wmv9advanced is vc1 which many movies are already, and 3) I still only have a 720p tv.
So for us, it was easier than switching signal inputs to a bluray player.
Depending on the movie, the result is either near perfect or barely noticeable.
Reasons are 1) some movies don't go above 15mb anyway 2) wmv9advanced is vc1 which many movies are already, and 3) I still only have a 720p tv.
So for us, it was easier than switching signal inputs to a bluray player.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?
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TheOsburnFamil
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Btw I posted the above from my phone. Pardon the errors.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?
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Greg
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TheOsburnFamil,
Thanks for the reply. That's fantastic news.............means I could use the Xbox 360 for everything, or just about everything.
From a phone.........not bad! I'm having trouble using my keyboard.........making good use of the spell checker!
Thanks again,
Greg
Thanks for the reply. That's fantastic news.............means I could use the Xbox 360 for everything, or just about everything.
From a phone.........not bad! I'm having trouble using my keyboard.........making good use of the spell checker!
Thanks again,
Greg
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brantmacga
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how long does it take for this process to run on dvdfab? and what's the specs of the machine you're using to do it?TheOsburnFamil wrote:I'm just about done going through my entire bd collection using dvdfab's bluray ripper option to Xbox and selecting the wmv.wma10 profile, removing HD audio for 5.1 digital and 15mb nitrate for all the rips, and keeling the resolution at 1080o.
thanks
yeh its a really sweet machine.Greg wrote:.............means I could use the Xbox 360 for everything, or just about everything
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TheOsburnFamil
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Corei3-540 / H57 / 4gb ddr3
I use all software based encoding instead of any gpu based as I have seen sporadic issues with you encoding.
As such, the amount of time depends on the bluray. They all get done to the same specs like I said before (wmv9 adv. wmapro10, 1080p and 15mb bitrate). All done with one pass (since I'm using constant bitrate instead of variable, there's no significant benefit to two pass encoding.
On average, if it's a cgi-based movie then it gets done in about 6-7 hours. For a full movie usually about 8 hours or so.
I use all software based encoding instead of any gpu based as I have seen sporadic issues with you encoding.
As such, the amount of time depends on the bluray. They all get done to the same specs like I said before (wmv9 adv. wmapro10, 1080p and 15mb bitrate). All done with one pass (since I'm using constant bitrate instead of variable, there's no significant benefit to two pass encoding.
On average, if it's a cgi-based movie then it gets done in about 6-7 hours. For a full movie usually about 8 hours or so.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?
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asm495
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Just thought I would share my experiences. For about 6 years I ran a configuration where I had a HTPC directly attached to the TV. Later I had a separate server (originaly Server 2003 then WHS) which I used for storing all movies, music etc. I then used a Linksys extender for another room. This solution worked but I did not like having to have 2 PCs to manage all of this. The HTPC was set to go into standby when not in use but this often seemed to cause problems and my wife quite often had issues with things.
What I moved to was one "server" machine running Windows 7. This was stuck away in my garage with a screen attached but rarely used. All the TV tuners were in this PC along with all the storage. Originally I ran just the raw drives with a duplication system set up for important files but I have now started using Drive Bender to provide what I lost in Drive Extender when moving away from WHS. The 2 main TV watching rooms I put in Xbox 360s as Extenders. Backup of this and other PCs is provided by Acronis True Image.
The resulting solution generally has far fewer issues. The server is rarely "used" which keeps maintenance fairly simple. Just having the Xbox as Extenders means that I only need to have these on when watching TV and maintenance of these is easy. My wife rarely has any issues with it now plus I get the benefit of only ever needing to keep 1 PC on.
I much prefer my new setup with the HTPC not connected to the TV.
What I moved to was one "server" machine running Windows 7. This was stuck away in my garage with a screen attached but rarely used. All the TV tuners were in this PC along with all the storage. Originally I ran just the raw drives with a duplication system set up for important files but I have now started using Drive Bender to provide what I lost in Drive Extender when moving away from WHS. The 2 main TV watching rooms I put in Xbox 360s as Extenders. Backup of this and other PCs is provided by Acronis True Image.
The resulting solution generally has far fewer issues. The server is rarely "used" which keeps maintenance fairly simple. Just having the Xbox as Extenders means that I only need to have these on when watching TV and maintenance of these is easy. My wife rarely has any issues with it now plus I get the benefit of only ever needing to keep 1 PC on.
I much prefer my new setup with the HTPC not connected to the TV.
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adam1991
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What does connecting it to the TV do that not connecting it to the TV prevents?
It seems to me your choice to move everything to one machine running Win7 has nothing to do with stability and ease of use. It could still be connected to the TV instead of being stuck out in the garage; either way, it's doing the same work.
Watching TV directly from the server isn't "using" it any more than having it serve an extender to do the same thing.
The real meat of your situation seems to be that you took a real mess of a variety of components and did away with it all, and went back to your original successful configuration of MC as a simple DVR. Your problems came about when you tried to keep the old HTPC cobbled together and extended to serve new needs using add-on servers and a non-Microsoft extender, instead of just building a whole new single MC machine with more capability to meet the new needs.
Oh--one thing you lose by not using the 7MC machine itself to view MC is Netflix. 7MC has Netflix built in; XBox requires XBox Gold in order to watch Netflix, which costs money and is ridiculous.
Also, as I discovered this weekend, I have to have a separate XBox Live login for each XBox just to have the ability to watch ripped DVDs (m4v) on each XBox. Silly.
It seems to me your choice to move everything to one machine running Win7 has nothing to do with stability and ease of use. It could still be connected to the TV instead of being stuck out in the garage; either way, it's doing the same work.
Watching TV directly from the server isn't "using" it any more than having it serve an extender to do the same thing.
The real meat of your situation seems to be that you took a real mess of a variety of components and did away with it all, and went back to your original successful configuration of MC as a simple DVR. Your problems came about when you tried to keep the old HTPC cobbled together and extended to serve new needs using add-on servers and a non-Microsoft extender, instead of just building a whole new single MC machine with more capability to meet the new needs.
Oh--one thing you lose by not using the 7MC machine itself to view MC is Netflix. 7MC has Netflix built in; XBox requires XBox Gold in order to watch Netflix, which costs money and is ridiculous.
Also, as I discovered this weekend, I have to have a separate XBox Live login for each XBox just to have the ability to watch ripped DVDs (m4v) on each XBox. Silly.
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brantmacga
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adam1991 wrote:Oh--one thing you lose by not using the 7MC machine itself to view MC is Netflix. 7MC has Netflix built in; XBox requires XBox Gold in order to watch Netflix, which costs money and is ridiculous.
The WMC7 netflix plugin sucks; look at all the threads on this forum and tgb.com talking about the problems, and how there's no support because MS and netflix just blame each other for its problems.
anyhow, the xbox 360's netflix app is superior in picture quality and it never freezes up on me, or takes 5 minutes to load.
it stinks to have to pay extra just to use an app you pay extra for, but i have zero headaches or glitches in the whole media center experience using the extenders over the computer.
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Greg
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I found this add-in: http://tubecentric.tv/adam1991 wrote:Oh--one thing you lose by not using the 7MC machine itself to view MC is Netflix. 7MC has Netflix built in; XBox requires XBox Gold in order to watch Netflix, which costs money and is ridiculous.
I don't know much about it, but it doesn't require an XBox Gold membership.
I hope this is the free version and not Gold?adam1991 wrote:Also, as I discovered this weekend, I have to have a separate XBox Live login for each XBox just to have the ability to watch ripped DVDs (m4v) on each XBox. Silly.
Greg
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adam1991
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I have zero glitches using XBox as an extender; it pisses me off thinking I'd have to spend $50/year for the privilege of seeing my Netflix sub on my XBox.brantmacga wrote:adam1991 wrote:Oh--one thing you lose by not using the 7MC machine itself to view MC is Netflix. 7MC has Netflix built in; XBox requires XBox Gold in order to watch Netflix, which costs money and is ridiculous.
The WMC7 netflix plugin sucks; look at all the threads on this forum and tgb.com talking about the problems, and how there's no support because MS and netflix just blame each other for its problems.
anyhow, the xbox 360's netflix app is superior in picture quality and it never freezes up on me, or takes 5 minutes to load.
it stinks to have to pay extra just to use an app you pay extra for, but i have zero headaches or glitches in the whole media center experience using the extenders over the computer.
Meanwhile the 7MC Netflix plugin is rock solid for me, and the quality is as good as just backing out of 7MC and using the web browser. I don't know what anyone else may be doing or seeing.
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adam1991
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Yes, free version. Still remains silly; I have to have multiple Live "memberships" just to enable this.Greg wrote:I hope this is the free version and not Gold?adam1991 wrote:Also, as I discovered this weekend, I have to have a separate XBox Live login for each XBox just to have the ability to watch ripped DVDs (m4v) on each XBox. Silly.
Greg