Updating Win7 to Win 8 in place with WMC

[NCoastTweaker]

I've been using WMC on my Win 7 pro OS for several yrs now with a Ceton InfiniTV4 PCIe tuner card / cablecard and have been pleased with how it works. (its not perfect of course, but good enough for me to like it)

Now I've been wanting to update the OS to Windows 8.1 pro and run WMC on that newer OS. I've been saving up my odds and ends money all year and am just now ready to make the purchase going into the November black Friday sales promos.

I have about 4tb worth of .wtv recordings sitting on my win 7 PC drives and would like to keep access to those recordings after upgrading to windows 8.1 pro. But I found this Microsoft support link: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3107057

It states:
"As of October 30, 2015, the Windows 8 and 8.1 Pro Pack (which upgraded Windows 8 Home or 8.1 Home to Windows 8 Pro or 8.1 Pro, with Media Center) and Media Pack (which added Media Center to Windows 8 Pro or 8.1 Pro) are no longer available for purchase from Microsoft. Previously purchased feature pack licenses will still work, and valid feature packs may still be available for purchase from third-party retailers. Support for these products is still available."

I felt like puking after seeing this. What an awful thing to do to your customers Microsoft!

The info above does indicate that previously purchased feature pack licenses will still work, so I hit EBAY and found a private individual
selling a WINDOWS 8.1 PRO PACK New in the Box. So I just purchased it.

Now for the questions:
I want to upgrade win7 in place to Windows 8 and re-add WMC so I can still access my existing recordings on the newer OS.

Here are my assumptions:
1. purchase Windows 8.1 pro pack (done)
2. purchase Windows 8 home (pending)
3. install Windows 8 home over existing win 7 os. (pending)
4. use free upgrade to windows 8.1 home (pending)
5. use Windows 8.1 pro pack upgrade windows 8.1 home to 8.1 pro with WMC.

Do I have this right?
I appreciate any help or guidance.
thanks
NKOST

[choliscott]

One issue I'm seeing

You are running W7 professional & you are going to purchase W8 Home. The issue here is that (from what I've read) you cannot upgrade W7 Pro to W8 home. The upgrade has to be from W7 Pro to W8 Pro. I understand that you purchased the pro pack to get to W8 Pro, but to my understanding the initial upgrade has to be from "Home" to "Home or Pro" or "Pro" to "Pro". Now it's quite possible that instead of using the Windows 8 home key, that you can instead use the Win 8 pro pack key to upgrade directly to W8 Pro, but I'm not sure about that either.

The question is why do you want to move from W7 to W8 since there is no difference between the two (as far a WMC is concerned) ?

[mdavej]

You have a couple of major show stoppers.

Gotta have Win 8 Pro for the Media Center Pak to work.

You won't be able to play back any copy once recordings after you "upgrade".

I highly recommend you stick with Win 7 indefinitely.

[NCoastTweaker]

The question is why do you want to move from W7 to W8 since there is no difference between the two (as far a WMC is concerned) ?

No good reason really. My oldest son brought over one of his buddys HP envy onetouch computer cause he was having sound and browser issues with it. (2.5ghz G2020T Pentium dual core) The dang thing was loaded with malware and viruses. This was my first encounter with Windows 8. Especially on a touch capable all in one pc. I took me awhile to figure out how to navigate that desktop. The app screen stuff looks like a cell phone interface. I finally got it cleaned up and decided to use the free upgrade to windows 8.1 it had. I had a lot of fun putzing around with it. Made me want to do another build.

Regarding the win 7 pro upgrade path to win 8, do you guys have any recommended links or forum posts that spell some of this out. I want to understand this a little bit more. Thanks for pointing out my flawed upgrade path.

Wish MS would have kept that media pack upgrade around a bit longer. That really burned me good. Their timing really makes me feel like a victim. Between that and Intel delaying the broadwell cpu launch so long, it seems the odds of me building a quality broadwell based htpc for a reasonable price are getting slim. This is starting shape of as a waste of $$$.

[choliscott]

In the original post you mentioned wanting to upgrade from W7 to W8, but in the last post you mentioned wanting to do another build. In my mind, another build is building another computer or upgrading the existing computer with new hardware.

Since from what I can tell you cannot upgrade from W7 pro to W8 home, the hope would be that when you run the W8 home install that you can enter in the pro pack key & have it make the straight jump to Win 8 Pro with media center. That being said, I'm not sure if that would work, or if the upgrade will come back saying something like "We detect you're running the Pro version & the disk you are updating from is the "Home" version. You will need to do a clean install to continue".

If that doesn't work & you want to go to Windows 8, then you probably have to do a clean install of W8 home & then move to W8 pro pack.

The overall issue is making sure your existing recorded shows still play. Do you happen to know if your cable provider protects just about every channel or just certain ones? For example my provider only protects the "pay" channels. if the shows are not protected, then if you did a clean install they should still play.

If you're not sure if they protect all channels or not, you can check & see which recorded shows have protection on them:

1) Open Windows Explorer & go to the recorded folder
2) Change the view to "Detailed"
3) Right click on one of the headers & select "More"
4) Scroll down to "Protected" & put a check in the box" & click on OK

Scroll thru your shows & look at the protected column. If it says "No" it means the show isn't protected & that it should play fine even if you had to do a clean install. You can also test this by playing the file on another computer & you should be able to view it just fine.

If it says "yes" then It means it's protected, which you would either have to do a upgrade from W7 to W8 or see if there is a way to backup PlayReady DRM configuration under W7 & restore it under Windows 8. I've read messages on here about people backing PlayReady, but it seems to be a hit or miss if the restore is successful & I don't know if anybody has tried backing up on one OS & restoring on another OS.

By chance is your HTPC strictly used for that purpose or are you also using it as your main machine also?

[NCoastTweaker]

I wanted to do an upgrade in place on a cloned win 7 image running on my ivybridge/z77 rig to keep access to the .wtv recordings for use with win 8 WMC and try it out etc. I also wanted to try it on a newer broadwell / z97 rig too. I should have been more clear in my initial post. sorry. I'm still trying to work this all out in my head.

Found some upgrade articles and here's what I've discovered.

1. "Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate edition users will not be able to upgrade to Windows 8 basic edition. They'll be able to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro edition. They'll also be able to keep their installed programs, document files and personalized settings." - courtesy of www.askvg.com -

2. "As with Windows 8, the Pro edition is already installed on a Windows 8.1 (Core) PC. To unlock the Pro features and make them available, you just need to enter the Pro Pack product key and go through a very brief upgrade. (The Pro Pack is version specific, with one you can buy today for Windows 8 and another for Windows 8.1 that will ship when Windows 8.1 does.)Windows 8.1 pro pack must have windows 8.1 core installed first." - courtesy of www.zdnet.com -

So it looks like my plans for upgrade in place from win 7 pro to win 8.1 pro with media center have been ruined buy the recent
Microsoft decision to stop offering the media pack update thru its online stores.. (thanks Microsoft!)

Looks like I'm stuck doing a clean install and not have access to the drm'd recordings made on the win 7 rig.


I appreciated your replies.. thank you!
NKOST

[mdavej]

Since the win 8 license can be used for several builds, I also wanted try it on a broadwell / z97 rig too.

Where did you find a license that can be used on several different machines? That's highly unusual.

Windows 8 is a truly terrible OS that has been replaced by Win 10 which is absolutely free. Any machines that don't require WMC you should upgrade to Win 10, not Win 8.

[NCoastTweaker]

Where did you find a license that can be used on several different machines? That's highly unusual.
Windows 8 is a truly terrible OS that has been replaced by Win 10 which is absolutely free. Any machines that don't require WMC you should upgrade to Win 10, not Win 8.

ok.. maybe I worded that response poorly. so here goes with my explanation...
I thought OEM licenses restrict the installation of the OS to that one Phsycal pc period. The Win 8 OEM for system builders limits to five installs, but the OEM rules for win 8 changed to restrict OEM to just PC's intended for resale.. they are not valid for personal use. So any personal use installation requires a full license.. which I understand to not be restricted to any ONE rig.

It can be installed on any replacement hardware. I would just have to uninstall it from the old system first.
(that can be accomplished by unplugging / removal of the harddrive with win 8 on it from the old rig, and booting from the original drive using the original win 7 image)

Am I ok? or are you going to call the software police on me.

And all os's are terrible.. its just a matter of degree.
The ONLY redeeming quality Windows has for me is WMC. That's why I have no interest in windows 10. doesn't matter how good Win 10 is to me when wmc is not being offered with it. Same for Windows 8 / 8.1 OS. My only interest is use of WMC.

[Ed]

Where did you find a license that can be used on several different machines? That's highly unusual.
Windows 8 is a truly terrible OS that has been replaced by Win 10 which is absolutely free. Any machines that don't require WMC you should upgrade to Win 10, not Win 8.

Wow, you're calling me out... ok.. here goes..
I thought OEM licenses restrict the installation of the OS to that one Phsycal PC. the Win 8 OEM limits the system builder to five installs. but the OEM rules for win 8 changed to restrict OEM to just PC's intended for resale.. they are not valid for personal use. So any personal use installation requires a full license.. which I understand to not be restricted to any ONE rig.
It can be installed on any replacement hardware. I would just have to uninstall it from the old system first.
(that can be accomplished by unplugging / removal of the harddrive with win 8 on it from the old rig, and booting from the original drive using the original win 7 image)

Am I ok? or are you going to split more hairs and call the software police on me.

And all os's are terrible.. its just a matter of degree.
The ONLY redeeming quality Windows has for me is WMC. That's why I have no interest in window 10. doesn't matter how good Win 10 is to me when WMC is not being offered with it. Same for Windows 8 / 8.1 OS. My only interest is use of WMC.

It's not restricted to one machine, but can only be activated on one machine at a time. You can uninstall/deactivate it from one machine and install it/activate it on another/different machine; but again - only one machine active at a time. You can't have 5 computers up and running online and be activated all at the same time with the same exact licence/key. You would need individual licenses/keys for each machine in that scenario (or a Volume Licence key - which will allow multiple machines to be activated at once using one key - but costs more). Windows will deactivate the key on any old machine if you activate a new one with it - or sometimes refuses to activate it at all if there is another machine activated with that key online.

[NCoastTweaker]

I believe you. Was more focused on WMC than licensing rules but thank you.

bottom line for me is that its not going to be possible to update my win 7 pro os to windows 8.1 pro with WMC.
Hell, I've been corrected on just about everything else that I've keyed into these posts so far, so I may be wrong about that too.

At least I didn't shoot myself in the foot by taking the wrong upgrade path.
thanks for the schooling.

I'm still itching to do another project, so I'll probably hunt down a copy of windows 8 basic edition, use the free upgrade to 8.1 basic edition, then use the Win 8.1 pro pack to unlock the pro features and add WMC..

I have a few spare SSD's laying around (little 128gb ones) that I can use.
Then I'll have a dual boot win7 pro / win 8 pro to toggle back and forth with on the hardware.
I'll just need to be careful not to mix up the .wtv recordings between the two.

With any luck, I'll have a newer rig built to try it out on..

[NCoastTweaker]

In the original post you mentioned wanting to upgrade from W7 to W8, but in the last post you mentioned wanting to do another build. In my mind, another build is building another computer or upgrading the existing computer with new hardware.

Since from what I can tell you cannot upgrade from W7 pro to W8 home, the hope would be that when you run the W8 home install that you can enter in the pro pack key & have it make the straight jump to Win 8 Pro with media center. That being said, I'm not sure if that would work, or if the upgrade will come back saying something like "We detect you're running the Pro version & the disk you are updating from is the "Home" version. You will need to do a clean install to continue".

If that doesn't work & you want to go to Windows 8, then you probably have to do a clean install of W8 home & then move to W8 pro pack.

The overall issue is making sure your existing recorded shows still play. Do you happen to know if your cable provider protects just about every channel or just certain ones? For example my provider only protects the "pay" channels. if the shows are not protected, then if you did a clean install they should still play.

If you're not sure if they protect all channels or not, you can check & see which recorded shows have protection on them:

1) Open Windows Explorer & go to the recorded folder
2) Change the view to "Detailed"
3) Right click on one of the headers & select "More"
4) Scroll down to "Protected" & put a check in the box" & click on OK

Scroll thru your shows & look at the protected column. If it says "No" it means the show isn't protected & that it should play fine even if you had to do a clean install. You can also test this by playing the file on another computer & you should be able to view it just fine.

If it says "yes" then It means it's protected, which you would either have to do a upgrade from W7 to W8 or see if there is a way to backup PlayReady DRM configuration under W7 & restore it under Windows 8. I've read messages on here about people backing PlayReady, but it seems to be a hit or miss if the restore is successful & I don't know if anybody has tried backing up on one OS & restoring on another OS.

By chance is your HTPC strictly used for that purpose or are you also using it as your main machine also?

just noticed your post and questions..
Cable provider is TWC and most of the encrypted cable card channels that I watch are protected.
This pc is just for HTPC. not my main rig, but it does service two additional TV's in the house via extenders.
(xbox 360 slim, and Linksys dmr-2200 dvd / media extender combo unit)

I like the Linksys, cause its got analog component video out and spdif outputs.
Just for educational purposes, I attached the Linksys to my Hauppauge dvr 1212 capture device, and was able to record 1080i DD 5.1 surround content with the bundled arcsoft TME software by using the Linksys extenders analog component video outputs / spdif audio outputs. So I could just re-encode the .wtv files into .TS, or .MP4, or .M2TS files. I also have an HD fury III in use for an old component video HD tv and it works with the Hauppauge too.

Then the videos could be played back on any system. (can you say NAS, or just use the extenders with wmc) I was also able to edit out the commercials, but this was extremely time consuming to the point of not being worth it. It would take forever to play thru all the stuff I have on .wtv Plus the quality is just fine on the .wtv recordings, but they do use a lot of disk space, but I can fast forward thru the commercials so that's an acceptable compromise for me. I was just goofing around.. the Linksys is more valuable to me as an extender than a dubbing device. the hd fury iii is more valuable as a means to watch highdef recordings from dvd/blue ray players lacking component outputs. it was nice to know that I still can have full control over the digital content I have for personal use if I choose to do so. Now with 4k stuff coming in, the old 1080i recordings ain't much of a novelty anymore like they would have been 4-5 yrs ago when these device came out. And with blu ray supporting lossless audio formats now, the 5.1 ac3 audio aint much of a big deal either. Especially with most receiver being able to run dolby pro logic or other simulated surround function from a 2 channel audio source..

I currently run the Linksys extender in my room using the wireless g linsys router.(old wrt54G) The xbox is hardwired via a netgear gb switch. they work ok.. I have a newer dvd player with hdmi output only running into the hd fury iii, and its converting the signal to analog 1080i and output a spdif ac3 digital audio signal as input into my sony WEGA XBR 36 inch tube. (its a beast, weighs a ton... )

thanks for the instructions on how to see if the .wtv recordings are protected or not.

[mdavej]

Win 8.1 only works with Xbox extenders. Your others will no longer connect. I don't understand why you are compelled to do this - lose most of your recordings and render half your extenders door stops. The Fisher Price interface isn't worth it.

I don't care if you install the same license on 100 machines, but it's not a good long term plan.

[NCoastTweaker]

Win 8.1 only works with Xbox extenders. Your others will no longer connect. I don't understand why you are compelled to do this - lose most of your recordings and render half your extenders door stops. The Fisher Price interface isn't worth it.

I don't care if you install the same license on 100 machines, but it's not a good long term plan.

Wow. so the Linksys won't connect up anymore... that stinks.
I'm compelled to try out win 8.1 with WMC just see first hand what it does / does not do.

Its not like I'm gonna get rid of win7 now. I had originally wanted to clone the win 7 pro OS drive and then upgrade the cloned image in place to win 8.1 pro to retain the playready stuff. But since MS pulled the Media Pack update off their online store Oct 30th that's no longer an option.

Instead, I just went ahead and purchased win 8.1 basic edition, and the 8.1 pro pak to enable the Pro functions and WMC.
I plan on putting win8.1 pro on a separate ssd and run it dual boot on the HTPC.
The only wrinkle with that option, is that I may need to call cable co to Re PAIR the card with the tuners.. (but I'm not 100 percent sure on that)
and the existing protected .wtv recordings made from win 7 wont play on the win8 WMC os.
Wish there was a way to backup playready on win 7 and recover it on win 8 so I could still watch between either system.

Once I have the new 8.1 environment (drivers, software, etc setup for WMC and ceton, I will put it to the test.
I'll eventually do another HW build with newer cpu's / NVMe ssds that have better native support in Win 8.1. so the software purchases won't go to waste.

I just want to tinker around with it on win 8... (it's fun)

I also have an alternate option, I own a 2nd intel pc, i5 ivy bridge on Gigabyte ud3h mobo. cpu is water cooled. (rasa xpsc 750)
it also has two r9 280x sapphire graphics cards (with backplates). they are the toxic 3gb mem, and and vapor-x 6gb mem in CF.

I'd probably remove the graphics cards and just use the imbedded igpu in the i5. (Same hd4000 as is in the i3 htpc)
I have a 2nd unused cable card (as a spare) that I could use... would just need to purch a 2nd ceton tuner, or swap the existing one
between systems. (also have a spare Tuning Adapter for it too.)

I haven't dinked around with much pc stuff since I last built the htpc and the i5 water cooled rigs a few yrs back.
Last thing I've done is putting the os in the i5 on raid 0. (two OCZ Vector 128gb ssds)

I think it would be fun to see how far I can get with this htpc on win 8.1 pro.
(really stinks that MS is crippling it so much)

Plus this may be my last opportunity to play around on the Microsoft stuff, cause once WMC is no longer available, I will not be buying anymore MS operating systems... I will not tolerate this level of Marketing stupidity by the Microsoft powers that be... they are bullies and want to force me into
their XBMC stuff.. (ain't gonna happen) Between MS removing WMC from their online store, and Intel taking too long to release broadwell cpu's, and then charging more than they are worth, I've about had it with this hobby.. the hardware and software vendors are being too manipulative with their tactics.

All they will accomplish is to lose a loyal customer. I can only hope that enough of us walk away for them to feel it financially.
That will be the only message they understand.. I'm just itching for another project, but don't have the cash for all new Hardware yet.
I may hold off and start concentrating on a Linux build for the next batch of new HW.

[mdavej]

That sounds much better. I got the impression you were going to upgrade your main HTPC rather than build a different box to experiment with.

We already know what 8.1 will and won't do, so no need to experiment just for that reason.

If your tuner is external (i.e., Ceton ETH or Homerun Prime), then you won't need to repair your cable card, otherwise, you will.

HD4000 should work fine.

Since I could get a 4 tuner Tivo with lifetime for $300, that was my answer to Microsoft abandoning WMC. My old HTPC is now a Plex server and web browser running on Win 10.