Live TV is fine but, a recording will go to "no signal"

[DavidinCT]

This problem just started and is driving me nuts. I thought I have seen this before but, I guess I was wrong. I hope someone can help

I am using 1 tuner, a Ceton Infintv 4, It's showing 4 tuners, on the recordings showing this result, I have gone to edit channel, show preview and tested each tuner will no problems.

When a hour+ show is scheduled to record, it will start recording and seems fine but, 25-35 into the show , it will go to "No Signal". If I go to the channel it will give me the same error but, IF I stop the recording, and view the channel it will work fine. As I said above, after this issue shows up, I have gone in and checked each tuner with no issues, all channels appear fine.

The cable line was tested once in my home (cable modem issues) and I had him double check the TV side, and it was very strong, so it should not be that.

So, a WMC issue or a Ceton issue ? Any idea on a quick resolve for this one, or is a rebuild in order finally (been thinking about it for months but, no time right now) ?

Thanks in advance !

[Crash2009]

Have you tried this one yet?

http://missingremote.com/forums/windows ... ment-42487

SOLUTION FOUND

Wow, I found the solution over here: experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home...

The problem was that there were two sources configured for these channels. Then apparantly WMC switches the the invalid one of these, when it tries to record.

The solution was this:

Open the Programme Guide

Right click the problem channel (you need a mouse, not the remote control)

Choose Edit Channel ... then Sources

Here you will see two sources enabled.

Disable one of them.

You may need to experiment to find out which one.

Another solution might be to delete all channels and scan again. But in my case this requires some manual work in order to rename the analog channels afterwards.

[DavidinCT]

Yea, I checked that, all tuners from my Ceton tuner are showing signal using show preview... It happened again last night, so I went in and checked all tuners again, 0 problems with any of the tuners.

As it seems to be a Ceton issue, I opened a ticket with Ceton and uploaded Diag info to them, Let's see what they come back with.

Maybe it's just time for a rebuild, I've had this install for over 5 years now.....

[Crash2009]

Yes the tuner is working, but if you go a little deeper, are all the signals for each channel working? I thought the tuner has a selection of signals for each channel. Lets just say 2, (I think some channels have more) The link I sent you suggests 2 sources for the problem channel they are working with. Source 1 works, Source 2 doesn't. Isn't this what you are experiencing?

[mdavej]

I had a similar issue. After months of troubleshooting, turned out to be play ready. It will cut the signal after about 20 minutes making you think you have signal issues when you really don't. This was the only fix that worked for me (in IE), after applying the other play ready related fixes:
http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/Ind ... ndivit.asp

[Crash2009]

I'm just trying to put my money where my mouth is.

This is GuideTool in the background, WMC in the foreground. The channel I would like to draw your attention to is 709 OUTHD. As you can see in GuideTool each Tuner has 2 sources. Then if we go over to WMC Guide/EditChannel/EditSources. Source 1-4 equate to 709 and 5-8 equate to 1630. Assumedly if you are on 709, 1630 would be the backup, and vice versa. What I would do in your case is confirm that both channels are working, and if one isn't, go into EditSources and remove the one that doesn't work. I always thought we only use one tuner to record, and the same tuner to watch, I'm not sure how these sources work. I have never noticed anyone try to explain this before. Excuse my feeble attempt.

I would imagine that on your tuners that only have 1 source, everything works fine?

[stuartm]

The way WMC selects which tuner to use from the list of sources is as follows: (excerpted from a post elsewhere on TGB)

Tuner priority:
The order is top-to-bottom for live TV, and bottom-to-top for recorded TV...
but this is further broken down by tuner type. So, if you have both ATSC and
CableCARD tuners setup for the same channel and your ATSC channels are on top,
then it will work like this:

Live TV will use the ATSC tuners first, from top to bottom. Recorded TV will
use the ATSC tuners first, from bottom to top. If all of the ATSC tuners are
busy, then it will repeat the same scenario on your CableCARD tuners.

[Crash2009]

I was playing around with mine a bit today. I think I might have broke something (havn't checked yet) I clicked split a few times and some of the sources disappeared. It appears the up/down arrows can move the source to the top or bottom of the list. Problem in my case all the tuners have the same name, so it's difficult to view priority after you move it up or down the list.

[DavidinCT]

This been happening on almost every recording now. I put a ticket into Ceton and got a quick reply upload diag but, a day later, not a single reply. I would of gone for the HDHR one but, due to 3 tuners, I decided to go with Ceton (I had a HDhomeun for years and their support was 2nd to none, awesome). At this point I am questioning Ceton support. Tonight is a busy day for recording and there is a lot of shows coming on that I want to record (as I wont be able to watch everything).

When this happened the other day, I went to Edit channels, Edited the channel that it happened on. I have 4 sources listed (Ceton Infintv 4), I checked them line by line with Preview on, Let the channel play for 1 min each, They all show 100% signal and there was no problem. I have done this on every channel I have had this issue on in the last 2 days, and No problems with any tuners at all, they all get 100% signal. This aspect looks fine.

I tried the link above to update my Playready and rebooted, I will attempt some random recording today to see if that addresses it.

A bigger problem is, Now that I am only getting partial recordings, WMC will try to record it again, on a few shows, I have 7 partial recordings.

I just double checked last nights recordings out of the 3 recordings (1 1/2 hour show and 2 Hour shows), all of them were partials only getting about the first 20-25 min of the show.

This is becoming a major problem, If I cant fix this, I will have to rebuild it during the weekend, as I need this running. I really do want to avoid that if possible.

I had a similar issue. After months of troubleshooting, turned out to be play ready. It will cut the signal after about 20 minutes making you think you have signal issues when you really don't. This was the only fix that worked for me (in IE), after applying the other play ready related fixes:
http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/Ind ... ndivit.asp

Thanks, it's a quick check, I tested and rebooted, crossing fingers...

The way WMC selects which tuner to use from the list of sources is as follows: (excerpted from a post elsewhere on TGB)

Tuner priority:
The order is top-to-bottom for live TV, and bottom-to-top for recorded TV...
but this is further broken down by tuner type. So, if you have both ATSC and
CableCARD tuners setup for the same channel and your ATSC channels are on top,
then it will work like this:

Live TV will use the ATSC tuners first, from top to bottom. Recorded TV will
use the ATSC tuners first, from bottom to top. If all of the ATSC tuners are
busy, then it will repeat the same scenario on your CableCARD tuners.

Thanks, Yea, for some odd reason, I knew that. I have a ATSC tuner in this computer (just so I can lock channels on 8.1 instead of 2139 etc) but, it is disabled on all sources. This should have no effect here, The Ceton is the ONLY tuner that is enabled.

[DavidinCT]

I had a similar issue. After months of troubleshooting, turned out to be play ready. It will cut the signal after about 20 minutes making you think you have signal issues when you really don't. This was the only fix that worked for me (in IE), after applying the other play ready related fixes:
http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/Ind ... ndivit.asp

Oh, well, Tried that, was looking good but, gave the same error "no signal" but, this one went 48 min before it stopped...

This problem started over the weekend, still unsure why. I found out I have a backup done on 2/18(problem in place) 2/15 and 2/1/15 (I use acronis to backup the OS drive, I forgot about this storage location), No shows are DRM'ed so I might just restore the OS drive from that 2/15 and see if that resolves it.

I'll do a backup and then restore the old one...if this does not resolve it, then it would be a problem with the Ceton...

[Crash2009]

The cable line was tested once in my home (cable modem issues) and I had him double check the TV side, and it was very strong, so it should not be that.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tested the signal yourself? Comcast said mine were fine, when in reality they were -12.5 dBmV to the tuner.

Code: Select all

Information From Ceton Card at: http://192.168.200.1
Tuner Instance Used for measurement:0
Number of Frequecies in Cable Card Map:83
Channel List count: 700
Frequency Table Signal SNR Frequency channel#;channel#;... 
0.0 dBmV 37.9 dB 291000 2525;2562 
4.0 dBmV 37.9 dB 79000 383;384;710;1212;1325;1511 
4.3 dBmV 38.3 dB 85000 709;711;712;1281;1291;1630 
2.8 dBmV 37.9 dB 111000 390;714;716;718;719;720;721;745;746;747;748;717 
3.5 dBmV 36.8 dB 117000 102;105;110;111;112;113;114;130;135;161;172 
3.5 dBmV 37.6 dB 153000 265;501;502;503;543;546;548;549;550;1871;551;552 
2.6 dBmV 37.1 dB 159000 276;980;988;993;1116;1334;1507;1938 
2.5 dBmV 37.9 dB 165000 196;204;1206;1220 
2.8 dBmV 38.3 dB 171000 207;213;222;377;1070;1106;1611;1806 
2.6 dBmV 38.3 dB 177000 101;401;402;403;404;405;406;407;408;409;410;411;412;413;414;415;416;417;418;419;420;421;422;423;424;425;426;427;428;429;430 
2.5 dBmV 38.3 dB 183000 138;211;229;230;378;1251;1307;1515;1530 
2.4 dBmV 37.9 dB 189000 120;127;621;659;660;661;662;663;665;670;671;672 
1.9 dBmV 37.9 dB 219000 761;769;770;1750;1751;1772 
1.3 dBmV 38.3 dB 231000 239;290;291;1012 
1.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 231000 2551 
1.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 231000 2552 
1.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 231000 2553 
1.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 231000 2554 
0.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 285000 182;218;339;692;693;984;1706;1950 
0.0 dBmV 37.9 dB 291000 214;223;224;1105;1207;1620 
0.0 dBmV 38.3 dB 297000 382;999;990;1009;1422;1631 
0.0 dBmV 37.9 dB 303000 141;601;602;603;605;606;607;608;609;610;612;620;622;628 
0.3 dBmV 37.9 dB 309000 615;617;624;626;629;632;633;634;637;639;649;650;657;664 
0.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 315000 614;618;627;636;640;641;642;648;652;653;654;655;656;658 
-0.5 dBmV 38.3 dB 321000 604;613;616;619;623;625;630;631;638;643;644;645;646;647 
-0.5 dBmV 37.9 dB 327000 193;205;212;1242;1260;1270 
0.6 dBmV 38.3 dB 333000 185;246;247;1107;1232;1815 
0.8 dBmV 38.3 dB 339000 194;197;208;1208;1240;1280 
1.3 dBmV 37.6 dB 345000 181;206;1705;1607 
1.0 dBmV 39.0 dB 351000 201;256;1650;1730 
0.6 dBmV 38.3 dB 357000 707;708;1651;1720 
0.5 dBmV 38.6 dB 363000 275;278 
0.8 dBmV 37.9 dB 369000 266;268;279;280;1911;1915;1952;1956 
0.6 dBmV 38.3 dB 375000 220;241;243;376;1108;1117;1821;1830 
0.8 dBmV 37.6 dB 381000 189;227;242;244;1071;1115;1332;1525 
0.8 dBmV 37.9 dB 387000 262;263;264;1222;1341;1361 
0.8 dBmV 37.9 dB 393000 274;282;283;284;1934;1982;1986;1991 
0.3 dBmV 37.9 dB 399000 184;277;281;713;1265;1612;1941;1958 
0.5 dBmV 38.3 dB 405000 295;1038 
0.3 dBmV 38.3 dB 411000 267;270;271;272;1912;1920;1922;1925 
-0.3 dBmV 38.3 dB 417000 989;991;992;1125;1262;1635 
-0.4 dBmV 37.9 dB 423000 198;200;219;369;1204;1290;1980 
0.4 dBmV 38.6 dB 435000 255;285;1721;1970 
-0.3 dBmV 37.6 dB 441000 202;203;1605;1606 
-0.6 dBmV 39.0 dB 453000 225;248;252;253;1221;1340;1405;1406 
-1.0 dBmV 39.0 dB 459000 245;249;251;1101;1360;1407 
-1.1 dBmV 38.3 dB 471000 217;319;379;380;381;1230;1271;1435;1930 
-0.9 dBmV 38.3 dB 477000 254;259;1711;1712 
-1.3 dBmV 37.9 dB 483000 183;186;210;221;1285;1286;1331;1820 
-1.4 dBmV 36.8 dB 495000 250;260;261;1308;1420;1860 
-1.5 dBmV 38.3 dB 501000 187;334;1216;1603 
-2.1 dBmV 36.8 dB 507000 190;216;257;1516;1608;1846 
-1.9 dBmV 37.9 dB 513000 188;226;228;1209;1305;1521 
-2.3 dBmV 37.9 dB 519000 191;195;199;1205;1250;1261 
-1.4 dBmV 37.6 dB 525000 387;730;741;985 
-1.3 dBmV 37.9 dB 531000 42;44;46;51;54;55;56;57;58;59;62;63;64;70 
-1.4 dBmV 38.3 dB 537000 10;15;34;37;38;39;41;60;61;67;96;104;147;173;178 
-1.8 dBmV 37.9 dB 543000 29;36;43;50;53;71;95;146;389;393;725 
-2.9 dBmV 37.1 dB 549000 31;32;35;40;45;48;99;398;735;901 
-3.9 dBmV 37.6 dB 627000 136;301;302;303;304;306;311;320;321;322;324;738 
-3.9 dBmV 37.9 dB 633000 129;131;132;133;139;140;142;143;144;145;163;258;1714 
-3.8 dBmV 37.6 dB 639000 100;125;152;153;154;155;156;209;388;739;1421;159 
-3.6 dBmV 37.6 dB 645000 134;150;370;371;372;373;374;375;679;684 
-3.3 dBmV 37.9 dB 651000 235;236;286;1003;1005 
-3.4 dBmV 37.6 dB 657000 65;73;106;109;117;119;123;137;162;180;651;715;736;737 
-3.4 dBmV 37.6 dB 663000 30;33;47;49;52;66;68;69;72;118;171;179 
-3.3 dBmV 37.6 dB 669000 674;733;749;751;752;753;754;755;756;757;758;759;760 
-3.3 dBmV 37.6 dB 675000 2;3;4;6;7;11;13;14;23;24 
-3.3 dBmV 37.6 dB 681000 12;128;174;667;734 
-2.9 dBmV 37.3 dB 687000 103;107;115;116;121;122;164;395;397;611;666;400 
-2.8 dBmV 37.6 dB 693000 771;772;773;774;775;776;777;778;779;780;781;782;783;784 
-3.0 dBmV 37.6 dB 699000 333;1803 
-2.8 dBmV 37.6 dB 705000 165;170;177;340;341;342;346;347;350;352;740;743;744 
-3.3 dBmV 37.6 dB 711000 124;148;158;176;305;310;325;327;328;329;330;396;726 
-3.1 dBmV 37.3 dB 717000 192;215;300;1330;1910 
-3.4 dBmV 37.1 dB 723000 89;385;386;399;701;702;703;704;705;706;75 
-3.9 dBmV 37.1 dB 729000 8;108;149;151;157;167;168;722;723;724;727;728;900 
-3.8 dBmV 37.3 dB 735000 232;234;294;1002;1004;293 
-3.6 dBmV 37.1 dB 741000 231;240;287;288;296;297;1006;1007 
-4.3 dBmV 37.3 dB 747000 233;237;1011;1014 
-4.1 dBmV 37.6 dB 753000 16;17;18;19;22;90;98;391;392;902;912;915;916;1000 

[Mike88]

The way WMC selects which tuner to use from the list of sources is as follows: (excerpted from a post elsewhere on TGB)

Tuner priority:
The order is top-to-bottom for live TV, and bottom-to-top for recorded TV...
but this is further broken down by tuner type. So, if you have both ATSC and
CableCARD tuners setup for the same channel and your ATSC channels are on top,
then it will work like this:

Live TV will use the ATSC tuners first, from top to bottom. Recorded TV will
use the ATSC tuners first, from bottom to top. If all of the ATSC tuners are
busy, then it will repeat the same scenario on your CableCARD tuners.

I've previously seen that priority listing mentioned. However I have 4 tuners and tuner #1 is always used first when recording, followed by 2,3 &4.

[Crash2009]

Mike, we are talking priority of the source not priority of the tuner. I only have 4 tuners, and 2 sources for each tuner. Both my sources are HD Channels. In the example I used, 709 and 1630 OUTHD are the same channel but a different spectrum (probably 720 and 1080). Comcast broadcasts the same channel in 3 or more formats for different types of TV's I deleted all the channels that broadcast in 480 (cause they look terrible on the Echo). Soon, if not all ready they will be broadcasting 4K. 4K will be an additional source. So, OUTHD might be channel 2630 in 4K. To continue what I think I am learning here.

My 4 Sources would be:

OUT 480p
OUTHD 720p
OUTHD1080p
OUTHD 4K

Where the prioritizing of sources comes into play is lets just say that 480p won't play on your system, and that's the only source available for your tuner. Guess what, now your staring at a blank screen. I think the jist of the article I provided a link to is to delete all the broken sources so the tuner has no choice but to play a source that works. Could be wrong though.

Where is Richard today? He likely wrote a book on this years ago.

[Crash2009]

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 316#p84316 Well looky there, it actually worked for somebody.

Sources are actually mentioned a lot here if you go look for them. I just did a search for "list of sources" and got 72 hits.

[Mike88]

Mike, we are talking priority of the source not priority of the tuner. I only have 4 tuners, and 2 sources for each tuner. Both my sources are HD Channels. In the example I used, 709 and 1630 OUTHD are the same channel but a different spectrum (probably 720 and 1080). Comcast broadcasts the same channel in 3 or more formats for different types of TV's I deleted all the channels that broadcast in 480 (cause they look terrible on the Echo). Soon, if not all ready they will be broadcasting 4K. 4K will be an additional source. So, OUTHD might be channel 2630 in 4K. To continue what I think I am learning here.

Got it, thanks.

[DavidinCT]

Again, there is No problem with tuners, every one works 100% and gets a signal 100% fine on all the channels with this issue. Even was able to restore from the 15th and still the same problem but, I noticed something, This problem started on the Superbowl. After that recording (that was interrupted via a quick power outage that day), it's been going on. The backup I had from 2/1 was with WMC crashing when it was opened, so I stuck with the 15th.

I think now is the time to bring WMC back to firstrun, then resetup tuners, map all my channels and then try again. This should leave all my installed WMC apps in place, as this is one of my big worries because a lot of these older apps are hard to find now days.

Is there a app around that can backup and restore channel lineups ? (reinstalling a cablecard causes 1000 channels to show up, I only get about 60 and custom map the locals to their OTA channel numbers 8.1 etc)

[DavidinCT]

Hmm...Cant edit a reply after a while...interesting...

So, I got it back to first run, after dealing with assorted issues getting it setup (play ready, gulde not downloading, crashing, etc), I got my tuners setup (need to setup the channels I get but anyway).

Restoring the channel lineups didn't work, If I set the up manually (going through the wizard) they worked fine, but, if I restored them from my backup (Seans WMC backup), they would get a "no tuner" message, even though my tuners were listed ugh.. Manually restoring the channels is going to take an hour or so....wish I could avoid it..

Anyway, First test recording was successful, no errors and completed fine. This would be the first successful recording in over a week. Yea !!!! (I will let it record tonights shows to confirm it's fixed 100%)

Anyone know of a 100% working channel lineup backup/restore program ? I would rather backup, then restore my old image, backup my lineup, then restore the new setup then restore the lineup than go through channel by channel. This will take long time to do...

[mdavej]

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever restore the channel lineup. That will screw up your system beyond repair. Only backup/restore the recording schedule.

[DavidinCT]

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever restore the channel lineup. That will screw up your system beyond repair. Only backup/restore the recording schedule.

Oh, well, about 2 hours to manually do the lineup...ugh...

Recoding schedule is in... so that is good, things are scheduled.

[mdavej]

Why do you have do manually redo your lineup? I just put in my zip code and everything comes up automatically.

To remember which ones I have enabled, I just take a bunch of screen shots and have someone read them out to me. My system has about 700 channels, and it takes me about 10 minutes to set them all up. "Guide Tool" might make it go a little quicker if you want to give it a shot.