Two guide entries for same channel

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Recently there were some channel moves within the FiOS lineup.

I saw the changes occur in zap2it and then saw the update in WMC the next day.

However, instead of channels being moved (like they were in zap2it), WMC instead added a new entry for each channel (and kept the old entry).

For instance, OWN was supposed to move from channel 161 to channel 145, and Discovery Fit & Health was to move from channel 163 to channel 161.

Instead of changing channel 161 from OWN to Discovery Fit & Health, it added a new entry for Discovery Fit & Health in addition to the existing OWN channel. So Now I have two channel 161's in the guide, one is OWN and the other is Discovery Fit & Health (a new entry for OWN was also added for channel 145, as expected).

The same thing happened with all the other channel changes (in many cases, the old channel not only had an entry for the old network name, but also a "fake" channel that just had listings with "this network has been moved to channel XXX").

I was able to resolve this problem by just disabling the incorrect channels, but I was wondering if this is the norm when this kind of change is made to WMC, or if there may be something wrong with my system.

Thanks

[STC]

You should be okay. Keep checking every now and then for catch up. If you're cableCARD the channel map it's downloading from head end will be listing both sets temporarily.

[Space]

Thanks for your reply.

I do have the HDHR Prime with CableCard, but the channelmap in the cable card does not have any duplicates as far as I can tell, it is just the guide data that has the duplicates.

I don't think it is possible for the CableCard to have duplicate channel numbers, since it would not know which of the two frequency/subchannels to tune to when you told it to change to a particular channel.

Here is a scan of the channel range I mentioned:

Code: Select all

vch=144 name=Oxygen East auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=145 name=OWN SD auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=149 name=Women's Enterta auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=150 name=QVC auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=151 name=HSN auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=152 name=Jewelry auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=157 name=ShopHQ auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=158 name=WOW OnTV4U auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=159 name=Liquidation Cha auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=160 name=Esquire Network auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=161 name=Discovery Fit & auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none
vch=162 name=Veria Living auth=unspecified cci=none cgms=none

You can see that there are no duplicates in the channel map (ignore the "auth" value as I did a quick scan that did not wait to get the correct auth status).

The guide is a different story, looking there, I see that there are two channel 161's:

161 - Oprah Winfrey Network - Satellite
161 - Discovery Fit and Health - Satellite

The second one is the current correct assignment for that channel, the first is the old assignment and is no longer correct. No matter if I tune to the first one or the second one, it tunes to channel 161 on the HDHR which is, of course, Discovery F&H. It is my understanding that that is how CableCard tuning is done, it just sends the channel number to the CableCard device and lets the device handle the tuning based on the channel map downloaded from the cable company.

Looking on Zap2it, it only has one listing for channel 161, the correct one.

I am guessing that if I go through "Set Up TV Signal" again it will replace the channel listing containing the incorrect channels with a correct one, but I don't want to have to re-do all the enabling/disabling of the channels again.

[STC]

Excuse me I misunderstood. I thought you had duplicate channels on different numbers. This happens when they are moving channels around but is only temporary. You'd see duplicate channel names together with channels marked 'LOOR' (local origination) that appear on the guide from time to time.

I'd suggest re-running setup BUT use this great tool to adjust things afterwards, it's a breeze:
Guide Tool http://1geek1tool.com/guidetool/

You can adjust channels with your mouse and not the 6 foot UI. I use the paid version and can save and restore configs this way.

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I also have some duplicate channels on different numbers, but this is totally understandable. It is a good way to do a transition because it allows both a guide using the old lineup and a guide using the new lineup to "work" as far as recording from a particular network is concerned (it will record from the correct network no matter which (the old or the new) channel it uses).

Would "Guide Tool" allow me to remove the incorrect channels from the lineup? Or would it only be helpful to restore my "disabled" channels after I did a "Set Up TV Signal" (in which case the paid version is required).

I am not sure I need to do this anyway, since just disabling the wrong channel works fine.

Can I assume by your response that this is the normal way WMC works when moving channels within the guide lineup? It does not actually remove the old channel listing, it just adds new ones? I did notice that one channel that was being deleted (not moved) seemed to be removed from the listing fine (there is no longer any network listed as being on that channel), so this appears to only be a problem when a channel moves, not when it is deleted.

If this is the case then I think I understand why I had a similar problem when I was on Cablevision. All of the "music choice" channels had two listings, one with the actual channel and one with that channel minus 1, which was the same channel as the previous "music choice" channel. I assume that Cablevision had moved all "music choice" channels down by one channel position and that caused the guide issue. This never cleared itself, so I assume the FiOS channels will never clear themselves either.

[oakley516]

I don't think you need to change anything using tool other than the guide itself.

I have Fios too, and saw a few new channels in the guide yesterday that had no data available. But today, everything looks like it has filled in with data and the old channel numbers don't have data, they have messages indicating what number that channel moved to. So, like on channel 584, it says FXX has moved to 191/691 for all the hours in the guide. And on 691, the schedule for FXX is listed there. And this show called Wilfred (that I had set the series to record on ch 584) is now set to record from the new ch 691, so MC changed the recording channel as its should.

I don't know if Verizon is going to add a channel at this number in the future though. For now, the station letters for channel 584 just says VZ11. So I guess I'll disable these channels for now and see if Verizon announces anything to takes their place.

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My concern is not the ch 584 - "FXX has moved to 191/691" "temporary" channels in the guide. My problem is that I have that "temporary" channel as well as the old "FXX HD-Satellite" on channel 584 as well. So the guide has two channel 584's (does yours not have this?). I am sure that the "FXX has moved..." channel will eventually be removed from the guide (assuming WMC handles deletes correctly) once it is removed from zap2it, but the old 584-FXX channel will probably remain if it is not removed manually somehow (as it has already been removed from zap2it, but persists in WMC).

You can see that the same thing happened in this thread, so I assume it is the norm for WMC:
http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewt ... 41&t=17092

[Crash2009]

I saw the changes occur in zap2it and then saw the update in WMC the next day.

Thanks for keeping an eye on those sneaky devils.

Are you saying that you have TWO channel 584's? Do they both display the same show? Do they display in the same resolution?

We just have to "See" this. Can you do a screencap and post it?

[STC]

I saw the changes occur in zap2it and then saw the update in WMC the next day.

It can be longer than that to see the changes in WMC. You may have been just at the end of the cycle.

Would "Guide Tool" allow me to remove the incorrect channels from the lineup? Or would it only be helpful to restore my "disabled" channels after I did a "Set Up TV Signal" (in which case the paid version is required).

Once setup is complete you'd use GT to unpick the channel you don't want listed in the guide. This can take a slice of time, but you can then save the config (paid version) to restore at any time you may have to run setup again.

I use Guide Tool to maintain my channel listing. Through GT I removed all PPV, On Demand stuff and channels I don't watch as well as the SD versions of channels I get in HD. It really cuts things down to a more manageable chunk. Each time my CableCo changes or adds, I run GT to administer the lineup, then save.

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I saw the changes occur in zap2it and then saw the update in WMC the next day.

Thanks for keeping an eye on those sneaky devils.

Are you saying that you have TWO channel 584's? Do they both display the same show? Do they display in the same resolution?

We just have to "See" this. Can you do a screencap and post it?

I have two listings in the guide for channel 584, not two channel 584's.
If you look in zap2it, you will see that it indicates that channel 584 is the network "VZ11", and it consists of 3 hour blocks of the show called "FXX Has Moved to 191/691". This is a fake channel listing just to let you know the channel has moved.

I also have this entry in WMC, but the old entry that indicates that channel 584 is FXX also still exists, and it lists the normal schedule for FXX.

Since I know that FXX is actually now on channel 691, I "disabled" both of these entries so they don't show up in the guide, since there is really nothing on channel 584 anymore (although during this transitional period, tuning to both channel 584 and 691 will get you FXX HD, but soon 584 will no longer work).

I can provide a screencap if needed, but at the moment I am unable to get one. Are you saying that you don't see this same problem?

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...
I use Guide Tool to maintain my channel listing. Through GT I removed all PPV, On Demand stuff and channels I don't watch as well as the SD versions of channels I get in HD. It really cuts things down to a more manageable chunk. Each time my CableCo changes or adds, I run GT to administer the lineup, then save.

Once you use GT to update your lineup, what happens when the service provider has channel changes? Do they still get added to your lineup automatically or do you now have to completely maintain your lineup manually using GT?

[STC]

^ You don't 'have' to use GT. It's still your choice whether to use it but it's really quick to do compared to doing it through WMC. TBH your cable co should settle down at some point too.

[Crash2009]

I can provide a screencap if needed, but at the moment I am unable to get one. Are you saying that you don't see this same problem?

A screencap might trigger someone's memory into a solution for you, also would be kinda cool to have a visual record of this abnormality in this post. I don't see, never have seen, and have never even heard of anyone with this same problem.

Have you tried to get the Latest Guide Listings in WMC/Settings/Guide.

[Crash2009]

^ You don't 'have' to use GT. It's still your choice whether to use it but it's really quick to do compared to doing it through WMC. TBH your cable co should settle down at some point too.

I just started using GT recently. I zapped all the SD, PPV, most of the MC, and Premiums not subscribed to (PNST?) I think I started out with about 630 channels, which I have trimmed down to about 110. There's a lot of channels I just never watch and in my case when I am surfin I got tired of skipping 500 to get to 100. Spent more time skipping than watching. I don't mind editing channels through WMC, I got GT for the channel backup feature.

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I can provide a screencap if needed, but at the moment I am unable to get one. Are you saying that you don't see this same problem?

A screencap might trigger someone's memory into a solution for you, also would be kinda cool to have a visual record of this abnormality in this post. I don't see, never have seen, and have never even heard of anyone with this same problem.

Have you tried to get the Latest Guide Listings in WMC/Settings/Guide.

OK, I have attached two screen caps of the problem, in the first one you can see the duplicate for ch 584 and in the second one you can see the duplicates for both channels 161 and 163.

[oakley516]

I have two listings in the guide for channel 584, not two channel 584's.
If you look in zap2it, you will see that it indicates that channel 584 is the network "VZ11", and it consists of 3 hour blocks of the show called "FXX Has Moved to 191/691". This is a fake channel listing just to let you know the channel has moved.

I also have this entry in WMC, but the old entry that indicates that channel 584 is FXX also still exists, and it lists the normal schedule for FXX.

Since I know that FXX is actually now on channel 691, I "disabled" both of these entries so they don't show up in the guide, since there is really nothing on channel 584 anymore (although during this transitional period, tuning to both channel 584 and 691 will get you FXX HD, but soon 584 will no longer work).

I can provide a screencap if needed, but at the moment I am unable to get one. Are you saying that you don't see this same problem?

I only found that I do have channel 161 doubled, the others I didn't find, as you can see in these screen shots. I don't remember having to manually change the guide around for any other channel updates like this. Although I will disable all of those channels in the third screen shot since they take up a lot of space. I'm sure we'll hear if Verizon is going to add anything on those numbers in the future.

[Space]

Hmm. so it looks like it is inconsistent. Some work, some don't. Oh well, I can live with it like this for a while. If it continues like this for every channel update, it may get out of hand and then I'll see what can be done about it. Maybe it will clear itself at some point... not holding my breath.

Thanks for looking at it.