Trying to Keep Media Center in the Publics View

[jfreiman]

Well, other than the other Windows Media Center believers on this forum, there ins't much being talked about regarding Windows Media Center.

So I figured I'd write a couple blog postings about the benefits of Windows Media Center and how Windows Media Center compares to offerings from Apple and Google.

Entertainment Wars – Cable and Network Programming http://audiovideofile.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/1059/
Satya Nadella: The Answer is Xbox One Media Center http://audiovideofile.wordpress.com/201 ... ia-center/

I'm not a professional writer, but I figured that the squeaky wheel gets the grease -- so I'm trying to be really squeaky! Hopefully this will inspire more of us to shout out loud how great a platform we have and how it's available to everyone.

[choliscott]

One thing I noticed was the lack of Windows 7 being mentioned. Windows 7 (besides Home Basic) came with WMC & if someone had to purchase Windows, 7 OEM would be cheaper then 8 Pro OEM (since you only need 7 Home Premium at a minimum).

While there is a lack of discussion that we can see (especially from MS), I'm thinking there is more active discussion then we think there is. For example, if you look at the deal websites that show a Ceton or Silicon Dust TV tuner device on sale, there are multiple pages of people talking about it in some fashion. Along with that, there is probably other discussion between friends & family where one tells there friend about this "exciting" new thing they got or a friend or family notices something different & starts to ask questions.

While your article did cover some items, usually people want to know the following:

1) How much is it going to fully cost me (initially & monthly) for the hardware & software & how quickly can I start to save money.
2) What's the benefit of using WMC compared to a cable Co DVR or Tivo (based on their TV watching habits)

[oakley516]

I'm all for pushing WMC as a great platform for TV.

Maybe your article will inspire people, although a little refining and focusing may help. I read through it quickly and a few things jumped out:

What is Windows Media Center:

Windows Media Center is a Microsoft add-on for Windows 8.x that brings advanced DVR and multimedia capabilities to your windows PC. This is not the same as what your “geek” brother, friend, co-worker swore about in 1999 as being the greatest thing ever! No this is real, it is well designed, simple to use, easy to navigate and like all great things from Microsoft, has a 3rd party API so that hardware and software vendors can build on top of it and make it better.

There are a few “requirements” your Windows PC needs to possess in order for it to record HDTV from your cable company on your Windows PC.

It must have a dual core CPU at 2.5GHz or faster
It must have at least 4 Gigabytes of memory
A hard disk big enough to store 1080/720 HDTV
So, assuming you purchased your computer with Windows Vista already installed on it, all you would need is to purchase add one device to your existing home network.

Internal (PCIe) or External (Ethernet) CableLabs certified Tuner
(rent) A CableCard supplied by your Cable Company
A quality no-fuss HDTV cable tuner that supports recording 6 simultaneous shows can be purchased from Ceton Corp for about $240 or you can opt for a 3 tuner model from SiliconDust for under $150.

Most PCs don't have the correct version of Vista necessary to use CableCard tuners. Probably should just say Win7 since so many PCs are now running on it.

Once you have one of these cable tuners, just run the Media Center setup, select your cable provider and turn on your Xbox 360.

Probably should mention in the requirements the need to have/buy an XBox360, priced around $180, and about $15 for a media remote.

Add to that a CableCard from your Cable Company and you are ready to record!

Monthly Cable Bill

If you have 3 televisions at home, you likely have 3 cable boxes and or DVRs, you also have your monthly premium tv subscription. Si many cable companies charge you the following monthly fees:

Cable Box rental (x3)
DVR upgrade fee (x3)
TV Basic and Premium Channels
With Windows Media Center on your Windows Computer recording between 3 or 6 channels with ONE cable card, you pay one fee for all your televisions.

Cable Card rental fee (1 card supports up to 6 simultaneous premium hdtv recordings)
TV Basic and Premium Channels
So if your premium television package costs $50 a month, and your Media Center CableCard costs you $6 a months you pay $56 a month, vs over $140 a months for your 3 DVRs plus subscriptions.

Not sure about the math here, but DVR rental from my cable company (Verizon) is about $20 a month, so someone with three DVRs would reduce their bill by $60 a month. Add the $5 a month CableCard rental, and it is a savings of about $55 a month. But they will also need to buy one or two more XBox360's to replace these DVRs.

But what if you don’t want to watch television on your PC!?

That’s where the Media Center Extender comes in. Media Center Extender comes on every Xbox 360 (no, it’s not available on the Xbox One) and allows your networked home PC running Windows Media Center to extend it’s screen/user interface to your television — how many televisions? Well, as many as you can afford, because an Xbox 360 is required for each television.

This Media Center Extender (MCX) functionality comes one every Xbox 360 and isn’t quite what it at first appears to be. You see, MCX is actually running on your home PC and not on the Xbox 360, the 360 is used to extend your Windows Media Center to external screens — in this case an HDTV. Just use the $20 Multi Media Remote control from Microsoft, don’t worry, you don’t have to use your “joystick,” to navigate your recorded shows, television guide/listings, DVD movies, music, photo slideshows and videos stored on your computer — on any Xbox 360 on your network.

Since all the content is recorded and technically played securely behind Microsoft and CableLabs developed DRM on the PC it was recorded on, you can record as many shows as you like in once central location in your home and play those shows back anywhere in your home.

The Xbox 360 can even act as a DLNA receiver to play other content form your PC, tablets or smartphones too.

That brings us to the Xbox One:

The Xbox One does have the MCX interface built into it. In fact, you can only use the Microsoft “Play To” or “Share To” feature to push video or music from your computer to your television. That means, if you want to share a video on your PC in your den with your family in the living room, you have to rush back and forth to start the playback of the video.

To be fare, the Xbox does have an HDMI pass-through port to pass through television recorded on your cable operator supplied DVR through your Xbox One — you know, so your Xbox One can be on your televisions “Input 1″ – ROTFL! However, that interface leaves much to be desired. To watch television through your Xbox One you must not only navigate the Xbox One menus and guides, but you must also navigate the menus and guides from Xfinity, Time Warner, Cox etc. There is no bypassing it and it gets messy really fast. (the team lead must have suffered a brain hemorrhage when he thought of using this tired and broken in/out video past hrough - HDMI doesn’t make it any better than 8 analog cables for video and audio, it still pass through!)

If you thought having a remote control for your DVD player, TV and cable box was messy, it aint nothing compared to this! Oh, but I can “talk to my TV” instead, yea. right. do so and you’ll see your cable box put channel numbers on your screen seconds before the channel changes.

This might be a little too confusing technically ; not everyone wants to know how the sausage gets made.

Maybe just mentioning what MCX can do in general, compared to how limited the XBox1 TV feature is would get the point across.

ITunes and Apple Store

So why did Microsoft not include Media Center Extender in the Xbox One? Because the age of getting your content from whomever you choose is going away. Ever since Apple tied the purchasing of music to their iTunes for the iPod, our choice to shop for content has been going away.

Microsoft see’s this trend and has watched as consumers quickly gave up the ability to buy products from an open market. Why should Microsoft create a TV platform where they make no monthly revenue when they can charge you to rent or buy movies from Xbox services?

There is still time to turn things around. There is nothing on the Xbox One preventing it from becoming a Media Center Extender. It has DRM built in. It has a more than fast enough processor, it supports HDTV 1080p output, supports explainable hard disk storage via USB 3.0, it has gigabyte Ethernet and Wifi — there is nothing stopping Microsoft from adding the existing MCX architecture to the Xbox One, and there isn’t anything preventing Microsoft from at least adding live TV streaming from a networked TV tuner directly to the Xbox One and thereby bypassing the cable supplied DVR and HDMI pass through, (just like the Xbox 360 to 360 Slim, or the PS3 to PS3 Slim, these non-used ports can be removed as needed).

Are you sure this correct: the age of getting your content from whomever you choose is going away? Part of the reason WMC failed to catch on is because TV viewing has been decreasing and people are moving toward alternative sources like Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, iTunes, etc., and getting their content from whomever they choose.

Adding live TV streaming from a networked tuner is hardly a solution, since this would not utilize any of the DVR features.

How would Microsoft benefit from re-launching Windows Media Center?

Look no company is going to introduce something, anything if they are not going to benefit from it. Either directly or indirectly.

The simple math shows that Microsoft can not only make lots of money by selling the software, but they can once again, easily and quickly, have domain over the biggest screens in ones homes and apartments — the TV. Microsoft makes money on Windows upgrades, not on new PC sales. If people are doing more and more of their computing on their phones, tablets and laptops, they no longer feel the need to upgrade the operating system of their aging computer…. Give them a reason to upgrade, give them value they have already committed to — such as the high cost of cable.

Are you sure this is correct? Microsoft makes a huge percentage of its profit from selling Windows licenses on new PC sales, not from upgrades.

With gazillions of users still on Windows 7 its obvious they are not in a rush to upgrade and Windows 8.2 or Windows 9/Threshold, isn’t going to encourage them to upgrade either — why upgrade the PC when it works well enough for web surfing or banging out a document in Word?

Apple is rumored to be coming out with an Apple TV, Google has their Chromecast and Android TV. One of the three is vaporware and nothing more than a dream or an idea, and the others from Google play on the ignorance of consumers that they have been able to stream/push videos to their smart televisions and bluray players since Windows Vista and it’s only got better with Windows 7, Windows 8 and now 8.1!

If Microsoft was able to give users a reason to re-purpose their aging computers and upgrade them with $300 worth of hardware and $xx for a Windows Media Center 8.1 “Upgrade” then Microsoft would again make money on current and future upgrades. In addition to the simple math of upgrading the operating system, Microsoft could make money that is now going to cable pay-per-view, and streaming movie rentals and purchases — they just need to add it to the existing Extender interface and everyone wins.

None of the existing users on Win7 would need to upgrade their OS to use MCX, leaving XP and Win8 users. MS has been unable to get existing XP users to upgrade even after cutting off support for XP. Are you saying that using WMC and MCX can convince them to upgrade? If so, that incentive has already been available to them for years.

Why do I think this is possible?

Because everything I have stated above already exists. The licenses with the cable companies are already in place, the cable television guides are already procured by Microsoft around the world, “everyone” has a PC already, everyone already commits a large portion of their monthly cable tv bill to rental fees and dvr fees. Customers want “new features” brought to them by fancy new DVRs such as the Xfinity X1 and X2 — these “new devices” barely scratch the surface of what I can do with Windows Media Center Today.

Go Retro!

First there was Windows XP Media Center 2005, it was complex and could only be sold on new specially designed personal computers. They were big, ugly and nobody wanted to put a tower PC under or next to their television — no one.

Now even the thinnest and lightest tablet computers running Windows 8.1 can record and stream live cable HDTV to a tablet — I can get my Dell Venue 8 Pro to stream recorded HDTV flawlessly, and live HDTV nearly as flawlessly on my home network. You don’t need a huge powerful box or a geek to install a TV tuner card and set up the system. My 80 year old mother has set her Windows 7/8 Media Center with Ceton tuner herself!!!

Everything mentioned does already exist today, including MS having sold over 80 million XBox360s and hundreds of millions of Win7 licenses. Convincing people to buy a CableCard tuner as an alternative to renting a cable company DVR is the challenge that MS has not been able to overcome.

The first Windows Tablet PC was big and clunky and wasn’t well received. Then Apple enlarges their iPhone and turn it into an iPad and the world falls quickly in love.

Don’t allow this to happen again and allow Google and Apple to come out with their television based products. They are no doubt working very hard behind the scenes to get favorable licensing deals with the television and cable networks. Who know when they will launch, but they will launch and they already have the momentum needed.

If Microsoft were to play the Media Center hand now they would win the game

1. Launch the Windows 8.1 Media Center w/Bing operating system as a free or cheap upgrade
2. Add Media Center Extender support to the Xbox One
3. Simultaneously add support for live HDTV via networked cable tuners for the Xbox One (no HDMI cable box needed)
4. Work with OEM partners, VARs and Geek Squad, etc to create bundled packages of hardware and software

This is all very possible and within Microsoft’s grasp. It is a shame that Microsoft owns every piece of the puzzle to enter the living room, they have it TODAY and yet, they are handing over any lead currently held to Apple, Google and likely Sony.

Microsoft seems to be done with Win8 and working on Win9, which unfortunately may not have WMC included in any manner. For close to a decade, MCX has been available in XBox360, adding MCX to XBox1 can't suddenly make a difference, can it? MS already tried getting OEMs to design and sell packages based on WMC. Businesses solely dedicated to designing, building and installing WMC based systems were founded. MS held trade shows to push the platform. They convinced the cable industry to allow content on PCs, and they worked with OEMs to have MCX built into new appliances and even into HDTVs. But none of it worked, and around 2010, they gave up.

Who knows, WMC may have been ahead of its time, and the new CEO will give it another push.

Or maybe linear TV has had its time, and the concept of WMC and DVRs are becoming yesterdays technology.

[garak0410]

Well, other than the other Windows Media Center believers on this forum, there ins't much being talked about regarding Windows Media Center.

So I figured I'd write a couple blog postings about the benefits of Windows Media Center and how Windows Media Center compares to offerings from Apple and Google.

Entertainment Wars – Cable and Network Programming http://audiovideofile.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/1059/
Satya Nadella: The Answer is Xbox One Media Center http://audiovideofile.wordpress.com/201 ... ia-center/

I'm not a professional writer, but I figured that the squeaky wheel gets the grease -- so I'm trying to be really squeaky! Hopefully this will inspire more of us to shout out loud how great a platform we have and how it's available to everyone.

Good, good articles. One of the reasons I didn't get an XBO was lack of good local media streaming, especially no Media Center Extender. I use the Windows Media Center Extender 85% of the time on my XBOX 360 and will continue to do so for some time.

[richard1980]

One thing I noticed was the lack of Windows 7 being mentioned.

Same here. As a reader, I get the impression that if I want this Windows Media Center thing, I have to have Windows 8. And I'm not a fan of Windows 8. So I'll just stick with my cable box.

[CharlieWayne]

Great effort on informing people of such a system.

With around 9 months on our setup, we've had only a few hiccups that were solved very quick. My neighbors keep having issues with cable boxes and want me to install a system like ours.

The only hold back of setting up a system for them is support. Can't commit to that.

[barnabas1969]

The only hold back of setting up a system for them is support. Can't commit to that.

I'll never build a PC for a friend or neighbor again. They all expect lifetime support for free.

[richard1980]

I find it relatively easy to support end-users that don't have permission to break stuff. I find it even easier to support end-users that don't have permission to alter the OS partition.

[choliscott]

This exactly solved my problem with my parents. I would end up getting a call about once a month mentioning the computer was running slow, which ended up being all this crap he was installing. Once I turned his account to a regular user & told them they had to tell me when something had to be installed, the calls dropped (about the computer) significantly

I find it relatively easy to support end-users that don't have permission to break stuff. I find it even easier to support end-users that don't have permission to alter the OS partition.

[barnabas1969]

I find it relatively easy to support end-users that don't have permission to break stuff. I find it even easier to support end-users that don't have permission to alter the OS partition.

Well, yeah... that's how I setup PC's for my kids. But I didn't want to restrict my adult friends and neighbors' permissions, forcing them to call me every time they wanted to install software. The easy solution was just to refuse to build PC's for them anymore. One of my co-workers charges $75/hour when his friends call him... and they pay!

[Dkeyguy1]

Most end-users don't know how to maintain a system; Most don't understand the difference between updates and upgrades; Most, these days are looking for the least expensive solution and think that all pcs are the same; The problems usually aren't their fault. Usually no-one takes the time to spell it out for them.
With mine, every single new build or refurbished machine was allowed to be brought to me and dropped off, for the length of the warranty for a free checkup. If they brought it in the warranty was good. If they did not bring it at least once the first year, usually by six months, the warranty was void. The people who brought theirs in would spend a night without it. But they would get free software upgrades, all updates checked, dust bunnies evacuated, etc.,, Most wouldn't bother. I have found that when you do things right for people most of the time they will pay whatever they can come up with. Those who have less will often pay more. I didn't mind helping them out, I still don't.

[MrNorth]

Great article!

Been with WMC from the days of XP and have seen the platform rise and fall and now finally put in the "MSFT Museum".

Compared to all other smart tv platforms and set top boxes for DVB S and DVB-T and TivO (which is big news in Sweden now 2014) the WMC7 platform is THE best PVR out there, all hands down. I have tested every open source alternative, almost every smart tv and every set top box that exists, and nothing come close in terms of easy to use and design. Of course the platform is lacking in the SDK, the online content support, but it has not been given any TLC since the initial release of Windows 7 which was quite some time ago... just look at the netflix app which is degrading bit by bit.

One interesting question that I have been wondering about is, WHY did it fail? Was it the price? Could it not run in win7 embedded? Why did TivO with their miserable UI and buggy software succeed? Why does all the set top boxes from sagem and motorola succeed? Why does all home brewed smart tv platforms from philips, lg, samsung etc succeed? Granted, in the past, the x86 chipsets available have not exactly been low power comsumers, but still, WMC could still run flawless with a powerful GPU. Did MS put too much faith in their crappy OEMS instead of building the set top box themselves?

We should all face it, unless MS release all sourcecode for ehome on clodeplex, there is nothing more to do. I have been a BIG supporter of WMC here in Sweden, but when the netflix plugin (which for reasons unknown to me never was released past the US borders) fail, we will probably move on to the new webos platform from LG. It has some innovative thinking, but sadly, there will never be a tv-tuner-set top box like WMC7, ever.

I only wonder how the platform had evolved if it had been allowed to keep on living. Moved to a better XAML based platform instead of MCML, add support for online content, social integration, fix the plugins, and add more of them etc... wow!

Rest assured, I will put a candle and some flowers on the WMC7 tombstone once it is gone for good.


What bugs me the most is that MSFT still have the b-lls to charge big bucks for the package in win8, given how they have reated both the product, and the loyal users. The decent thing would be to release it all on codeplex and let the people who really cared about it let it evolve into the future as an open source project.

/S

[kingwr]

WHY did it fail?

I would suggest it didn't "fail" so much as it was never given a chance to succeed. The fault lies squarely with Microsoft and its ever changing direction and priorities. When Windows Media Center Edition ("MCE" - this will get changed to WMC by this forum) came out in 2003, it was what I had been waiting for. For the previous 6 or 7 years I had been trying to integrate my PC (web browsing, media playback) into my TV, but it was always a cobbled-together mess with genlocks and such that just didn't work well. Windows MCE was a great solution, and while it had it's quirks, the vision was sound including extenders for OEM devices, XBoxes, and, yes, other PCs (the infamous SoftSled). This was not Microsoft's first foray into TV, mind you. They had Microsoft UltimateTV which was a receiver for DirecTV and some cable systems, and they had fairly recently purchased WebTV. But in 2003/2004 It looked as if Microsoft was finally lining up products and software to move into the living room, as Bill Gates had talked longingly about ten years before in his book "The Road Ahead."

But by 2006, it had vanished from Microsoft's radar. Outside of a brief moment during a 2010(?) CES keynote where Ballmer showed a PC recording 4 channels at once with a CableCard tuner and a 2011/12 commercial for Microsoft Windows that briefly showed WMC on a laptop screen, Microsoft never talked about it, marketed it, improved it, or anything. I don't know if it was that they were concentrating on XBox for the living room or trouble with getting digital HD content into the platform, or what. But Microsoft literally let it die on the vine. Now, with great fanfare, out comes the XBox One with the overlay functionality for cable and satellite STBs that Microsoft touts as Microsoft in the living room, but it is a 15 year throwback to technology that predates their UlitmateTV, WebTV, Microsoft TV, MediaRoom, and Windows MCE + extender development. It's almost as if they are in denial that all the time and money was ever spent on these platforms. It boggles the mind!

This was Microsoft under Ballmer, however. WMC and the Windows platform in general suffered greatly, along with Windows Phone, the server products, and others (everything but Office). But of course, my mind can't comprehend in any shape or fashion why Apple would pay $3 billion for Beats headphones, so obviously I don't understand how technology business is supposed to work.

[deihmos]

I like Media Center and I use it everyday but it has been dead for over 5 years now.

[MrNorth]

What are the chances of it being released as open source on codeplex? Nill?

That doesn't solve the issues with all the content providers not supporting public APIs, but that is the only hope we have left for WMC to survive...

I never got around using the internet tv plugin much since it was US only, but the idea and application looked just great, and definitely something that could be built upon and improved further given how fragmented the Swedish "streaming services" market is today.

Netflix for WMC is also one of the best netflix plugins I have ever used, even if it has some bugs...

Me too had great hopes for the xbox one, and was hoping they took the best from WMC, and put it in the One, but when it was presented my jaw was just dropping to the floor. "WTF, this is from the guys who gave us WMC, is this ALL..." and just continued on using WMC. MSFT are correct about one thing, the scheduled way of watching TV is diminishing, here in Sweden there is a decrease annually of about 5% that cancel their cable, or DVB subscription and use only web based on-demand tv services, but in my opinion it still doesn't justify scrapping the "old fashioned" way of watching TV support like they did with the "one guide" and IR blaster, total crap if you ask me. Proper tuner support, a real guide and kinect support could easily replace our WMC setup at home. But now, it is just useless as a livingroom device, unless you wanna play games or skype, which it does with flying colors.

I agree with you there, it is like WMC has never existed in the mind of the MSFT folks... totally surreal considering the amount of cash they have put in eHome over the years. And I still can't find a more beautiful, well designed UI anywhere on any platform, and I have looked reeeealllly close.

/H

[barnabas1969]

Microsoft will never release Media Center as open source due to the DRM built into it. The only hope for something similar to Media Center, with all the CableCARD goodness, is for the enthusiasts (us) to crowd-fund a project to create a new replacement for Media Center. The problem is, how many people will be willing to contribute money to a software project that will need to be closed-source due to the DRM requirements? The PlayReady license costs would be a big barrier, and it will require a significant amount of coding time.

I suppose Ceton (shudder) or Silicondust could write their own software. It would benefit them because it would allow them to continue selling their tuners until CableCARD is dead... and it would allow them to modify the software to work with whatever technology succeeds the CableCARD.

I, too, liked the Netflix plugin. It was much better than the Netflix app built-in to my Bluray players. However, I now like the Roku Netflix app better than the plugin for Media Center.