WMC Black Screen Issue

[element192]

I've had my HTPC up and running for a week or two now, and just had this problem start yesterday and it's happened twice now. I should note that the PC is running 24/7 and is using the i3-4330 on-board graphics. The PC is connected to my AVR with HDMI. When the TV is turned off the remote sends out a command to the HTPC pressing "Stop" so the Live TV won't keep running or anything.
What's happened twice now, is that after the TV (and AVR) have been turned off for a longer period of time and I turn everything back on, WMC has a black screen. I can hear audio if I press Live TV on the remote and if I move the mouse around I can see the cursor but the screen remains black. For now the only way I've tried (because it works) is to close WMC with the Alt+F4 command which returns me to the desktop screen and then use Win+Alt+Enter to reopen WMC. Then it's as if nothing was wrong.
As I mentioned this seemed to come out of the blue and I can't think of any major changes that were made that could cause something like this.
I read about something similar to this on another forum this morning, but it didn't sound like there was a real resolution there. I'd like something that fixes the problem, not a "workaround" to make it work. I've only had this for a few weeks now and if it's going to last for years, I don't want this black screen to be a "thing".
Does anyone know of anything that could be causing this and how I can fix it?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[barnabas1969]

Someone should make this a wiki because it comes up so often.

This is the HDMI "handshake" problem. Check out HdmiYo (Google it). You can setup HdmiYo so that it will respond to a keyboard key press. Then, you can program your remote to send the keyboard command via IR when you turn on the TV (with a few seconds delay so that the TV is ready before you send the keyboard key press).

If your remote can't be programmed to send a keyboard keypress (or if your IR receiver doesn't support it), then you can also use tools like EventGhost to send the key press on an event of your choosing.

[element192]

Someone should make this a wiki because it comes up so often.

This is the HDMI "handshake" problem. Check out HdmiYo (Google it). You can setup HdmiYo so that it will respond to a keyboard key press. Then, you can program your remote to send the keyboard command via IR when you turn on the TV (with a few seconds delay so that the TV is ready before you send the keyboard key press).

If your remote can't be programmed to send a keyboard keypress (or if your IR receiver doesn't support it), then you can also use tools like EventGhost to send the key press on an event of your choosing.

You are just the master of all things HTPC aren't you?!

I'll take a look at that when I get home tonight, you know I have that Flirc IR unit right now which uses keyboard commands so it's easy for me to setup I'm sure. I'll have to look into the alternative once I convert to an actual IR receiver with MCE remote commands. Does the IR unit you use (and you linked the other day in another thread) work to receieve a keyboard press? Or do you use EventGhost?

Do you happen to know what would cause this to happen all of a sudden after it working fine for a few weeks?

[barnabas1969]

You are just the master of all things HTPC aren't you?!

Well, I wouldn't say that. There are plenty of people here who are smarter than I am. I just read a lot of things about a lot of subjects and I save bookmarks with keywords that help me find them quickly for future reference.

Honestly, I had never posted in a forum until I started learning about HTPC's in late 2010 and early 2011. The idea of posting in forums seemed kinda geeky to me, even though I am a self-proclaimed geek. I dreamed about home theater PC's since back in the early 1990's when Gatewate Computers came out with the "Destination" system. However, back then, the Destination system was only capable of 640x480 display, and most PC's couldn't play full-motion (30 fps) video without a lot of judder... so I thought it was a pipe dream. When I first heard of Media Center (Windows XP Media Center Edition), I misunderstood the purpose, and thought it was a waste of time. When I found out about CableCARD tuners (the old ATI ones), the price was ridiculous for a single-tuner system, and there was no way I was going to do that. But then, Ceton came along, and a smart guy at my cable company told me about it.

This forum, which was formerly http://www.thegreenbutton.com (and then changed to experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home, which was run by Microsoft ... but so many people hated the Microsoft variety that they formed this new .tv site) is full of very helpful people who helped me make decisions for my own whole-home media solution. So, I started participating, and sharing what I know with new people. I'm too abrasive for some people (both here, and in real life - people either love me or hate me), but I really do want to help. I just call it like I see it... no filters, lies or deception going on here... it's all truth (in my world view).

Does the IR unit you use (and you linked the other day in another thread) work to receieve a keyboard press? Or do you use EventGhost?

I don't know if it will take the MCE keyboard commands. I never tried it. It probably will, but I don't need them. I use EventGhost. It's the best free automation software I've seen. But, it can be complicated, or simple... depending on your goals.

Do you happen to know what would cause this to happen all of a sudden after it working fine for a few weeks?

The most common thing that happens is people add their A/V Receiver into the HDMI mix, or change some settings that affect HDMI in the TV or AVR. But, even if you don't have an AVR, the problem can be random. Unfortunately, it seems that PC graphics adapter manufacturers haven't done much to make PC graphics adapters compatible with consumer electronic devices like televisions and AVR's. Most computer users plug their computer monitor into the computer. People who use HTPC's are a very small percentage of computer users.

[element192]

The most common thing that happens is people add their A/V Receiver into the HDMI mix, or change some settings that affect HDMI in the TV or AVR. But, even if you don't have an AVR, the problem can be random. Unfortunately, it seems that PC graphics adapter manufacturers haven't done much to make PC graphics adapters compatible with consumer electronic devices like televisions and AVR's. Most computer users plug their computer monitor into the computer. People who use HTPC's are a very small percentage of computer users.

Well I'm glad you're hear participating, you've been a huge help to me already.

What's also weird about this handshake issue (after some Googling), is that it seems like MOST of the problems aren't the black screen I'm describing but more of no video at all (blue screens), no audio, or general choppiness. It seems like the problem is directly WMC related because if I back out of WMC (by returning to my desktop homescreen) the problem goes away. What does this have to do with HDMI if I'm not changing inputs and the only change to "fix it" is internal?

[barnabas1969]

Some people get black screens (I did), some people get green screens, some people get blue screens. I've heard that it depends on which brand of graphics adapter is in your PC. I don't know if that's true or not. They say that ATI/AMD cards turn green. I had an nVidia card that would be black.

When you close Media Center, which gets exclusive access to the video card when it is in full-screen, the desktop does another handshake. The same thing should happen if you simply pick up a keyboard and press the Windows logo key on the keyboard. This is because the Windows taskbar will display, causing Media Center to lose it's exclusive access to the graphics adapter.

The same thing would probably happen to any full-screen application on the PC.

[barnabas1969]

Oh, and just to add... I didn't use HdmiYo. I just setup an EventGhost macro that would send the Windows keyboard key, wait a few seconds, and then maximize Media Center. Worked like a charm. The only negative was that I would see the task bar and start menu on my TV for a couple of seconds before I saw the Media Center menu.

The problem only happened on my old HTPC. The new one, with integrated Intel graphics, doesn't have this problem. However, I also close Media Center (with an EventGhost macro) whenever the TV turns off, and Media Center starts after the TV turns on... so maybe that's why I haven't seen the problem on the new PC.

[element192]

However, I also close Media Center (with an EventGhost macro) whenever the TV turns off, and Media Center starts after the TV turns on... so maybe that's why I haven't seen the problem on the new PC.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking of doing, but I have no idea how I could set it up with my remote. My system turns on and off with the same button. That means if I program the button to close WMC with Alt+F4, when I turn the computer on it will press that again which means it won't open to WMC (and I think presing Alt+F4 at the desktop brings a pop up to shut down the computer). That's my problem. Do you have separate on/off buttons with your remote, or does it know what state it's in?

I could also do the Windows key trick each time because I don't think that will have much of an impact, but still doesn't feel ideal to me.

[element192]

Do you think taking it out of full screen mode would do the trick? That would be an easy one because when it turns off it would shrink it to a window, then when it gets the "full screen" command when turning on it will be full screen again. I can have that be the first command so it's already loaded by the time the TV/AVR turn on.

[barnabas1969]

I'm using the libCEC plugin for EventGhost with the internal HDMI-CEC adapter (hardware) from Pulse-Eight. When the TV turns off, it sends a broadcast to all devices on the CEC bus telling them to enter standby. This turns off my AVR (and it would turn off any other normal consumer devices with CEC support). My EG "TV Turned OFF" macro triggers on this event, and closes Media Center. I have the CEC adapter set to NOT put the PC in standby when it receives the "standby all devices" broadcast from the TV.

Then, when the TV turns on, it broadcasts that its language is "eng", meaning English. This is the only time it does this, so I used this event to trigger my "TV Turned ON" macro in EG.

On my system, turning the TV on/off also triggers Windows system events that say that the display connected/disconnected. I think this behavior is different depending on your video card (graphics adapter), but it would be free for you to install EventGhost and see if events are generated when you turn the TV on/off. Just make sure to un-check the box at the bottom of the log viewer in EG, or you won't see any events that aren't defined in a macro.

If your PC triggers the connect/disconnect events, you could use those to open/close Media Center.

EventGhost may seem daunting when you first start using it, but once you figure it out, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

If the connect/disconnect events that I mentioned above don't display in the EG log viewer on your PC, there are other alternatives. There is an EG plugin that, when configured correctly, will turn your Media Center IR receiver into a device that will allow you to send any IR command you want from any remote control, and those IR commands will display as events in EG. You can then use those events to trigger a macro in EG.

For example, I wanted to create some buttons on my remote's touch screen which would do certain things. I have one button that turns my living room lamps on/off. To do this, I used an old remote that I had laying around which was for a TV that I no longer own. I created the touch-screen button on my remote, and learned the number 1 key from that old remote. Then, I pointed the remote at my Media Center IR receiver, and pressed the new button. I then dragged the event that displayed in my EG log viewer into the macro that I had already created which turns my lamps on/off (using the Insteon SmartLinc plugin for EG).

I used other buttons on that old remote to program other functions. Here are a few of them:

-Turn the porch light on/off.
-Turn the dining room light on/off.
-Turn the overhead light in the living room on/off.
-Turn the ceiling fan to HIGH.
-Turn the ceiling fan to MED.
-Turn the ceiling fan to LOW.
-Turn the ceiling fan to OFF.
-Go directly to the Netflix Media Center add-in (I will be re-programming this to go directly to the Netflix channel on the Roku).
-Go directly to the Hulu Desktop app.

So, as you see, there is practically no limit with EG. Your imagination, and the time you are willing to spend, is the limit.

[barnabas1969]

Do you think taking it out of full screen mode would do the trick? That would be an easy one because when it turns off it would shrink it to a window, then when it gets the "full screen" command when turning on it will be full screen again. I can have that be the first command so it's already loaded by the time the TV/AVR turn on.

Yes, it should do the trick. But you'll probably need to add a delay after the TV turns on. The TV takes a few seconds to get ready before the PC sees that the TV is connected.

See my previous post about the connect/disconnect events that you might see in EG. You don't need the CEC adapter for those events, but not all graphics adapters generate them. Install EG as I recommended above to find out.

[element192]

Yes, it should do the trick. But you'll probably need to add a delay after the TV turns on. The TV takes a few seconds to get ready before the PC sees that the TV is connected.

See my previous post about the connect/disconnect events that you might see in EG. You don't need the CEC adapter for those events, but not all graphics adapters generate them. Install EG as I recommended above to find out.

After reading your initial post a few times, I think I get the concept (as much as I can without using the program yet).

If you're connected through a receiver (like I am) doesn't your HTPC see the display as your receiver and not your actual TV? I seem to have some memory of seeing that before when I was setting up the computer initially, but I could be mistaken. But since there's no physical connection from the HTPC to the TV, how does it know when it's turned off/on?

[barnabas1969]

I meant to say this above, but forgot: I haven't used a macro in my remote for a couple of years. I have no need to anymore. EG runs all my macros on the PC. I hated the fact that the macros in the remote required people to point the remote at the IR receiver until the macro was finished. It wasn't much of a problem for me, but others in my household would always forget. Either they would put down the remote before it was finished, or someone would walk between the remote and the IR receiver on a device at the moment in time when the remote was sending an IR command.

Now that I use EG, a single IR command can cause a whole chain of actions to happen. The PC is in control. It's connected to everything anyway (via the network, RS-232, or whatever), so why not let it control everything?

[barnabas1969]

If you're connected through a receiver (like I am) doesn't your HTPC see the display as your receiver and not your actual TV? I seem to have some memory of seeing that before when I was setting up the computer initially, but I could be mistaken. But since there's no physical connection from the HTPC to the TV, how does it know when it's turned off/on?

Well, I will say that my old PC, with the nVidia graphics adapter, had a tendency to alternate between seeing the TV as the primary display, and seeing the AVR as the primary display. I never really understood why. But my new PC always sees the TV as the primary display. It doesn't even seem to recognize that the AVR exists.

This could be due to the fact that with my old PC, using a different CEC adapter, I had to turn the AVR's CEC functionality off. With the new PC, and the Pulse-Eight CEC device, I am able to use the CEC functions of the AVR... so maybe that makes a difference. Or, it could be the fact that my old PC had an nVidia graphics card, and the new one has integrated Intel graphics. I don't know... but it's worth a try in your setup.

EDIT: Just to clarify, my thinking above is that my TV is now "in control" of the AVR. The TV "knows" that the AVR is in the system, and that audio should be directed to the AVR. I'm not sure if this makes the difference, but it's possible.

[element192]

I will check this out tonight, thanks. It's funny, as I read a little more about it EventGhost reminds me a lot of the app "Tasker" for Android (if you're an Android user check it out). I have a few profiles setup that I don't know how I could live without, so I can see how EG would turn into something like that for me.

Hopefully I'm lucky enough that I'll have the results needed that I can program events based on my TV (or AVR I guess) turning on/off!

[barnabas1969]

Exactly! Yes, I use Tasker. And, I also use AutoRemote, which is a kind of "bridge" between Tasker and EG. AutoRemote is a plugin for both Tasker and EG. A task in Tasker can send a message to your PC via AutoRemote, which triggers an event in EG. It works the other way around too. I have a Tasker context that checks to see if I'm near home. If I am, then it sends a message to EG. EG then checks, using the SunTracker plugin, to see if it's dark outside. If it's dark, then EG turns on my porch light. When I leave home, the opposite happens and the porch light turns off.

[barnabas1969]

Regarding AutoRemote, it isn't limited to only communicating between Tasker and EG. You can even use it to communicate between two PC's which run EG, or two Android devices which run Tasker, etc. For example, if you have an Android phone and an Android tablet, you could set it up so that the two devices "know" which one you are using at the moment, and redirect notifications to the device that is currently in use... so you'll see SMS notifications on your tablet, for example.

[element192]

I haven't checked out the Autoremote yet, but I guess I wouldn't have without EG...

Do you have any links to do some reading on setting up EG to have events based on the TV/AVR turning on/off? Something very basic to get started on this? This sounds like a great solution once I can get going with it. I'm just hoping for another resource so I'm not on here asking a million questions!

Hopefully checking the log for connect/disconnect is easy enough to figure out...

[barnabas1969]

Well, the EventGhost forum is a great resource. It's similar to this forum, and there are some regular contributors there who are very helpful. In my experience, I've found a user there who goes by the handle "krambriw" to be very helpful. His name is Walter. The EG forum is here:
http://eventghost.com/forum/

Then, there is some documentation. It isn't the best doc, but you really should peruse it. I especially recommend reading the "Short Manual". You could also read the section titled "Controlling your living room with EventGhost". The documentation is here:
http://eventghost.com/docs/user_docs.html

If you just install EG and run it, you will begin to see events in the log window, as long as the check box at the bottom of the log window is NOT checked. The default configuration will show the connect/disconnect events. If they are there, then you can create macros to open/close the ehshell.exe program (that's the program that you run to show the Media Center user interface). Once you've created the macros, then you simply drag the events from the window on the left side of EG to the macro you've created. Finally, click the Save button on the toolbar.

All of that is possible with the default installation of EG. No additional plugins are necessary to do what I wrote above.

If you need help, let me know.

[element192]

If you just install EG and run it, you will begin to see events in the log window, as long as the check box at the bottom of the log window is NOT checked. The default configuration will show the connect/disconnect events. If they are there, then you can create macros to open/close the ehshell.exe program (that's the program that you run to show the Media Center user interface). Once you've created the macros, then you simply drag the events from the window on the left side of EG to the macro you've created. Finally, click the Save button on the toolbar.

All of that is possible with the default installation of EG. No additional plugins are necessary to do what I wrote above.

If you need help, let me know.

So I installed EventGhost and have left it running. From what I can tell from the log, it does not detect an event when I turn off my TV/AVR, but has a flurry of System.DeviceRemoved and Sytem.DeviceAttached events when I turn my TV on.

In the span of about 15 seconds I get:
System.DeviceRemoved
System.DeviceAttached
System.DeviceRemoved
System.DeviceAttached
System.DeviceRemoved
System.DeviceAttached

Each one of these is my display. I ran a test and turned my TV/AVR off at a specific time and then turned them back on 5 minutes later. There were no events at the time I turned them off, but the same pattern as above when I turned them back on.

I'm sure this may be a better post in the EG forums, but since I've never posted there and you are familiar with this event I thought I'd throw it out to you and see what your thoughts are?

From my limited understanding, there is no event I will be able to trigger when my TV/AVR turns off, and attaching something to the System.DeviceAttached event for the display sounds like a bad idea as well since it attaches and removes itself so many times.

Do you think there is a setting I could tweak in my AVR that is causing something weird like this? It's a Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K.