"Tuner Error" pop-up, but shows still record fine?

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foogama

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"Tuner Error" pop-up, but shows still record fine?

#1

Post by foogama » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:22 pm

I have the PCIe InfiniTV 4 installed in my Windows 7 x64 HTPC with Windows Media Center. My service provider is Comcast. All four of my tuners seem to work on my HTPC and my Xbox 360 Extender, but whenever I have WMC open and a recorded show begins to record, I always get a "Tuner Error" pop-up about how "[name of show] cannot be recorded because there is no tuner available." Despite this, the show records anyway without issue, but I always get the pop up and the only thing I can do is press "cancel."

I've seen other people with this same issue:http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336614/lates ... t_21656812, but have yet to see a definitive solution.

SilverRubicon

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#2

Post by SilverRubicon » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:22 pm

This would happen to me a few years back but I can't remember the last time I encountered it. Have you updated the firmware on your InfiniTV?

staknhalo

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#3

Post by staknhalo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:31 pm

I used to get this occasionally with ANALOG TV on my 2250s; believe it or not. In my case it obviously had to be a WMC error. Haven't experienced it since my Cable Co. has gone all digital.

JohnW248

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#4

Post by JohnW248 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:17 pm

Do a little research and post back. Go to recorded tv, scheduled and history and see what actually happened, The show that didn't record should be there along with the tuner and an explanation, conflict, no signal, etc. And right after it should be the tuner that did record it and start and stop times.

See if you are always having this issue with a particular tuner, if you have SDV a late reply from the TA can cause this error and the next tuner will record the program.

When MC issues a command to a tuner, it expects a response with a certain time limit, if it doesn't get it, it will often try again and if that fails will put up the error message BUT it will keep looking through other available tuners. When it is going through this routine, each tuner has a priority--recording in progress is high, live tv is low, so if it comes to it and you're watching live tv, MC may take your tuner to make the recording.

A valid conflict should have been resolved when you scheduled the program, but I had one the other day that showed as a conflict but there were plenty of tuners and I don't know (other than a bug) why that showed up in the log. It didn't show up as on screen message.

But see what's in your history log and maybe it will point to a problem.

Shackleford

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#5

Post by Shackleford » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:25 pm

I used to run into this on occasion. The show always recorded so I never really worried about it. However since I've updated drivers and fw I haven't seen it again.

foxwood

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#6

Post by foxwood » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:13 pm

JohnW248 wrote:If you have SDV a late reply from the TA can cause this error and the next tuner will record the program.
This is probably the most likely source of the problem as described - you get an error, but the program records anyway, because by the time WMC tries a second time, the Tuning Adapter has finally received a response from the first request, so the channel is available.

If you're not using Tuning Adapters, then it's possible that one of your tuners is not working reliably.

foogama

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#7

Post by foogama » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:21 am

After looking in the history log of recorded shows, the pattern is very consistent. Tuner 1 is unable to record a show, and then Tuner 2 immediately comes in behind it to successfully record it. But a pop-error is always generated.

My Ceton diagnostic tool says I have the most current hardware and firmware and am unable to update:

InfiniTV Firmware Version: 1.1.82
InfiniTV Hardware Version: 6212

Is there anyway to avoid the SDV conflict? Even if it just means somehow disabling pop-up tuner notifications altogether?

mdavej

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#8

Post by mdavej » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:10 am

Does anybody (Motz, erkotz?) know if changing any of these registry settings could increase the SDV delay enough to ride through this error?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectShow\Debug\BDA\MSNP
WeakSignalDroppedThreshold
WeakSignalQualityThreshold
NoSubscriptionThreshold
CHLRestoreThreshold
SignalLocked_InitialDuration
SignalLocked_InitialDebounce
SignalLocked_DebounceFromInitial
SignalLocked_Debounce
InputSamples_InitialDuration
InputSamples_InitialDebounce
InputSamples_DebounceFromInitial
InputSamples_Debounce
OutputSamples_InitialDuration
OutputSamples_InitialDebounce
OutputSamples_DebounceFromInitial
OutputSamples_Debounce
WeakSignal_InitialDuration
WeakSignal_InitialDebounce
WeakSignal_DebounceFromInitial
WeakSignal_Debounce
ComponentHierarchyLevel_InitialDuration
ComponentHierarchyLevel_InitialDebounce
ComponentHierarchyLevel_DebounceFromInitial
ComponentHierarchyLevel_Debounce
RecentStateChange_InitialDuration
RecentStateChange_InitialDebounce
RecentStateChange_DebounceFromInitial
RecentStateChange_Debounce
DFN_InitialDuration
DFN_InitialDebounce
DFN_DebounceFromInitial
DFN_Debounce
ComponentScrambleThreshold

mdavej

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#9

Post by mdavej » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:14 pm

Bump

JohnW248

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#10

Post by JohnW248 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:22 pm

mdavej wrote:Bump
You are very patient, indeed.

I would try a few other things first before getting into registry settings.

1. check retrans on your TA (second page on RF Statistics for the Cisco device). If you are getting numbers there it indicates a problem between the node and the TA which requires a second call. This could indicate a time out error. This would have to be addressed by the Cable Co engineering department.

2. if the problem is consistent with tuner 1, then edit the channel tuner line-up for that channel. Right click on the number in the guide and edit channel, then choose edit sources. You can uncheck tuner 1 (for the test) and save save and see if you have the problem when it goes to tuner 2 as first choice. You can re-arrange the tuner order as well with the up/down arrows, but remember first choice with live tv is different from first choice for recorded tv--that's why I'd test one channel with tuner 1 removed. Doing it this way you can add it back without running tv set-up etc.

I think the timing for a tuner response to MC is baked in, the window of time between request and TA might require TA FW updates or cableCARD FW updates which with Cisco means that they have to observe the problem and then decide if they want to fix it. I haven't had much luck with that since I've had an issue open with them through TWC for a year and half and it hasn't been address even thou it is well documented.

mdavej

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#11

Post by mdavej » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:36 pm

Thanks for the info. I have a Moto TA and don't know how to look at any diagnostics for it. I haven't isolated it to a particular tuner. It probably isn't just one tuner because I will get 2 error messages if 2 recordings start at the same time. I can also consistently manually tune on any tuner without issue, but there is a few second delay. Like the OP, it's just a nuisance message and only happens a few times a week. It never affects my recordings at all, as they pick right up after the first tuning attempt. If someone at Ceton could tell me which delay to increase, I think it would solve my problem. In any case, I have opened a support case. We'll see what they say.
Last edited by mdavej on Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Motz

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#12

Post by Motz » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:39 pm

I am not positive when it comes to that stuff. Support + eric should know. I have seen this from time to time, pretty rare though, however like you said i get a pop up but it is actually recording just fine. Not sure if it is something just related to WMC or not.
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mdavej

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#13

Post by mdavej » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:44 pm

Thanks. Support got back to me right away and had me load some hotfixes, an unpublished beta firmware and change some power settings. So far so good. But I won't know for sure until I get some more run time.

bandook

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#14

Post by bandook » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:48 am

Just wondering how things have been for you? I've been seeing these popups a little more frequently. Doesn't bother me too much because I know my recordings are fine. However makes my wife think something is broke so you know how that goes.

Can you share what hotfixes ceton had you installed. And what fw and other settings did you change?

Thanks

mldenison

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#15

Post by mldenison » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:01 am

I don't have a TA but I get these popups several times a week.

mdavej

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#16

Post by mdavej » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:23 am

I'll post what they had me load later this week. But it didn't make much difference really. I still have the issue now and then.

kd6icz

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#17

Post by kd6icz » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:55 pm

I get those pop ups all the time. Super annoying! It's most certainly a TA issue. I have Time Warner and Motorola TA. The latest version of FW for the TA in my area is 1.37. I had one of my TA stuck on 1.35 which only supports 4 tuners. I got that error pretty much constantly. After resetting my TA and having the Cable Co push 1.37 to it I finally got the update which reduced the amount of errors I was having. But I still have to reset the TA and entire system about every two weeks because of this error.

bandook

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#18

Post by bandook » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:39 pm

Well I'm getting them and I have no ta's. Last night I had the error for two channels at 8pm. They both recorded fine though. But I guess the error is enough for WMC to log it as a bad recording, because it then recorded the same shows that night.

Do you guys usually get duplicate recordings when this happens. I've been getting a lot of duplicates on discovery channel. Now I know why. They usually rerun new shows on the same night. I'm not a coder, but this would appear to be some simple logic that could fix this. I know Microsoft wont be fixing, but it would at least be nice to have some file watcher deleting duplicates or something.

JohnW248

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#19

Post by JohnW248 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:24 am

You can get these errors when Media Center doesn't get a channel within a specified time period. Usually MC will try a tune twice and then post a fail and then go to another tuner and try again.

Check the history to see what happened, Go to Recorded TV in Media Center, Click on Scheduled and then History. Your errors should show up as "not recorded" along with a reason.

If you are using tuner pooling this can occur when Media Center thinks it has a tuner but when it tries it, it is already in use so Media Center gets a No Signal on that machine. There can be other causes with TAs as well, but you don't have that.

Another problem happens on some TWC systems which Cisco CableCARDS where a copy protection error will occur during a program and that will be marked in the history as "partial" and then MC will automatically look for another airing to record a full program. If you have a Cisco CableCARD, go to the Web Gui for your Ceton tuner and click on cableCARD then click on the link to Cisco CableCARD CP Info and then when that opens click on Page Two. You'll see:
Cisco CableCARD(tm)
Copy Protection Info Page 2

Refresh Status: OK
Refresh count: 312
N_Host timeouts: 0
Sync Cnf timeouts: 0
CP-CA Control bits: 0x00

If you see anything in N Host timeouts or Sync Cnf timeouts, you've had a copy protection error. The counter for CP is updated every ten minutes and if out of sync it will result in a subscripito9n required message on screen for a few seconds with a return to programming within 30 seconds. If you playback a program with this issue you should skip forward when you see the message so that MC doesn't get "stuck" in playback at that point.

bandook

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#20

Post by bandook » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:53 am

Thanks. That's exactly what is going on. Had multiple partial and not recorded messages. But they all recorded fine. Like someone suggested it sure would be nice if you could adjust the time out period. I bet just bumping it up 10 seconds would alleviate the multiple recordings almost entirely. I guess I understand why Microsoft chose to go this route. Better to cause duplicates than miss recordings.

John, you seem very knowledgeable in WMC, let me ask you. Is there any thing that can be done to resolve any of these issues? Is this just something that were all just going to have to live with? I'm pretty content with the way things are working now. Not perfect but I'll take these sort of bugs over the ones that prevent shows from recording at all. Just want to know if its worth spending more time trying to find a fix for these issues.
Thanks

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