Extremely disappointed with MCE

[LuckyDay]

While I tend to agree with Foxwood here (seriously, who is like "I want to watch Season 4 episode 5" instead of saying "I want to watch the one with....") the reasons for why either of you like one way or another is irrelevant.

The point is, in relation to this thread and why it was started, you can have it either way you want it in WMC. Download media browser and a metadata program and it you can move those recordings and have them renamed and updated exactly how you want them. Problem solved either way.

It takes maybe 5 minutes of your time and then your recordings are forever the way you want them. You can have the best of both worlds. Something you can't do on any other DVR solution.

Or you can do what I do, delete shows after you watch them because DVR recordings take a ridiculous amount of space and contain commercials. I would honestly rather download the HD vid files, rip the Blu-Ray or DVD to my collection, or just watch them on Netflix than have to deal with navigating a recorded TV folder with shows full of commercials (and that goes for any DVR interface or method, I've used a few).

[adam1991]

If you're wanting a DVR and DVR only, and the best functionality out of that DVR, why did you build an HTPC?

I can answer that for myself: commercial skip.

My 7MC is a DVR, period. That's all I intended it to be. I could have gotten Tivo, I guess, or used the cableco crap for a year while I waited for their whole-house solution to come out. (I hear from friends who went from standalone cableco crap to new whole house cableco solution that they love the whole house thing; compared to the standalone boxes, of *course* they do.) But years of ReplayTV spoiled me, and I knew that I could never, ever watch TV without commercial skip. I simply won't do it.

7MC with ShowAnalyzer was the *only* DVR out there that would do what I wanted in this new digital age.

That it extended *very* well with XBoxen was the second requirement. I was thrilled to see my idea of years ago come to fruition--a single multi-tuner recording tank with networked players. After all, it's the natural evolution of what ReplayTV was with each Replay seamlessly being able to stream from any other Replay, and to schedule shows to record on other Replays. Anyone who thinks Tivo today is the shizzle never had Replay of 10 years ago.

That's my story, anyway.

[adam1991]

Or you can do what I do, delete shows after you watch them

Agreed. Because, after all, it's just TV. To stress out about it, to insist that it be delivered exactly one specific way with specific metadata so that you can keep/archive everything forever, is quite the rainman attitude.

It's just TV. There's lots of it out there. If you miss a show, you'll see it at some point later. Or not; it's just TV. More will come down the pipe in a minute.

I don't really know why I pay the extra ten bucks a month for the extended channel lineup; with the magic box watching TV for me, it can capture WAY more entertainment than I have time to watch. Throw in my Netflix subscription, and...shoot, I think I just talked myself into calling the cableco.

note to Ceton: the above statement in no way indicates a lack of need or desire on my part for the 6 tuner InfiniTV. In fact, you may construe it as a *requirement* for such a unit. If I had 6 tuners watching 70 channels for me 24/7, I could save $10/month on the cable bill...which after X months pays for the InfiniTV6...

[foxwood]

why either of you like one way or another is irrelevant.

I should clarify that I don't "like" one way over another way. If I was restricted to using a system that involved naming episodes so that they sorted in a useful order, I'd use that.

I'm flexible that way.

[BiggAW]

Look...simply admit you may not be a clever as you think you are. There are too many MCE7 systems running everyday with no issue for the blame for your issues to be laid at the feet of Microsoft. There are 9 of them in my house alone and if my wife, wife's mother and my mother can figure out how to use them than it can't be that poorly designed or difficult to use.

First of all, there is a difference between setting the system up, and using it, and a different between being able to adapt to a poorly designed system like the Sci Atlanta boxes or MCE as opposed to using one that works well (like TiVo). Mine is up and working, crashes, reboots, errors, and all, although it does work most of the time. There are so many usability problems with the interface, it's not even funny. I just thought of two more things that MCE can't seem to handle: folders and a capacity meter (yeah, I can go to Windows explorer, but that's a really bad solution).

The thing is, for many of us, a machine built around WMC is meant to serve as much more than just a "DVR". For me, I have Media Browser for all of my DVD backups and downloads that has a very nice looking interface and way to navigate them. Media Center Master automatically renames all of my content (with episode numbers like you want) and adds backdrops, cover art, actor and episode info.

I have no interest in wasting my time copying my DVDs to disc that I will probably never watch again anyways. It's easier to have them in a box or on a shelf and pull them when I want them.

I have games that launch directly through my WMC interface, as well as Steam Big PIcture for gaming. Gaming on my HTPC is similar and in many ways better what I can get out of any of the current consoles. I have Netflix, Blu-Ray, DVD, and Amazon Video (last one still a beta version plug-in). I have extenders that work perfectly recording and viewing TV in two different rooms. There are plugins for music, podcasts, file browsing, and too many more to name that you can get working with the WMC front end (without issues for 99% of us).

A gaming HTPC that isn't a DVR can do all of that, and Netflix and the other services are better handled by Roku anyways. Plus any decent HT setup is going to end up with half a dozen devices that can do Netlflix at this point.

I'm able to minimize WMC occasionally and use it as an internet browsing machine, or for shopping online on my couch.

The control is poor for this, but a non-DVR HTPC can do this as well.

And on top of all of that I love the WMC interface, and the simpleness of it is perfect for what I want to do (as I don't use search, don't need season pass, or many of the other things you've mentioned). Nobody I have met has had any major issues using it or figuring it out.

If you don't have series recordings set up, you clearly don't have any clue what a DVR is. That's the second most basic functionality (other than recording in the first place) that a DVR can have.

While it's fine for you to not like the interface, and of course you will get backlash here on TGB because it's a WMC loyal community, you're saying WMC is garbage because of one component of what it does.

I'm not surprised that I found the fanboys. MCE is a DVR, it really can't do anything else useful, other than minimizing MCE and using it as a Windows 7 PC, which can do anything a Windows 7 PC can do (DUH!).

If you're wanting a DVR and DVR only, and the best functionality out of that DVR, why did you build an HTPC? You've most likely spent more money doing it and the TIVO already does exactly what you want. If none of these other features on WMC interest you, or you're only using a very small portion of them, what is the benefit?

For the storage amount, and the number of tuners, the HTPC is about the same price ($900), and it is scalable with extenders. I also wanted something that could display web content from a browser on the big screen, like last night I streamed an episode of NOVA. HOWEVER, I have found that MCE as a DVR is a POS, and has so many failings it's not even funny. Hopefully TiVo Premiere and TiVo Mini will finally make the ultimate DVR.

For you, it sounds like WMC isn't the right option. Whether you like the interface or think it is intuitive is your opinion, it doesn't really matter what we think or if you think we're wrong.

I have provided many concrete reasons why the MCE interface is idiotically designed, confusing, and just difficult to use day to day, even when you do know how to use it. It's like someone from Nokia designed it (even though it does predate the whole Nokia WP thing), with incredibly click-heavy interfaces. That, and it generates random errors. I was watching storm coverage this morning, and it decided that it needed to be rebooted for no apparent reason at all. That's absurd.

Have you ever tried to torrent an episode that was broadcast 3 years ago? Despite the hype, it's not going to be available, (except for a small number of "marquee" series).
...
The SxxEyy format conveys more useful information and is more useful for organizing. It's natural to organize by season, not year (seasons often span years),

I'm not organizing anything - it's recorded TV, it's sorted by date, which (this shouldn't come as a big surprise) delivers exactly the same result as sorting by episode number.

The funny thing is, if I had a fetish about Season and episode numbers, with WMC I can actually add them to my recordings. Neither the TiVo or cable-co DVR that I used before WMC sorted by episode number, (not that it would have been useful with the 40 hours of recordings I was limited to then), and there was no option for modifying anything, other than deleting it.[/quote]

The cable DVRs and TiVo has the SxxExx number under the description of each program, so you can piece things back together if you need to.

The original air date does NOT necessarily sort the same way as SxxExx. In the case of PBS, they air stuff out of order sometimes, and different stations from different cities can be a week or two off, which is relevant when you have cable and you get HD PBS from another city (i.e. WGBH or WNET in various part of CT in addition to our PBS, WEDH).

A lot of seasons are still out there on bittorrent, and lot of them are well seeded, so they come in FAST.

Yup. I also run into PBS shows that are broadcast out of order, so it's really helpful to get SxxExx numbers on them to, after a few weeks of recording, put humpty dumpty back together.

You do understand the difference between "Date Recorded" and "Original Air Date" don't you?

Yes. The Original Air Date doesn't help when they are originally airing them out of order, or bumping the original shows for other stuff, and then counting on kind-of-sort-of re-runs that aren't really.

While I tend to agree with Foxwood here (seriously, who is like "I want to watch Season 4 episode 5" instead of saying "I want to watch the one with....") the reasons for why either of you like one way or another is irrelevant.

The point is, in relation to this thread and why it was started, you can have it either way you want it in WMC. Download media browser and a metadata program and it you can move those recordings and have them renamed and updated exactly how you want them. Problem solved either way.

It takes maybe 5 minutes of your time and then your recordings are forever the way you want them. You can have the best of both worlds. Something you can't do on any other DVR solution.

Or you can do what I do, delete shows after you watch them because DVR recordings take a ridiculous amount of space and contain commercials. I would honestly rather download the HD vid files, rip the Blu-Ray or DVD to my collection, or just watch them on Netflix than have to deal with navigating a recorded TV folder with shows full of commercials (and that goes for any DVR interface or method, I've used a few).

I shouldn't have to add more software to the system to get very basic and rudimentary DVR functionality that ever Comcast crap DVR has by default.

If you're wanting a DVR and DVR only, and the best functionality out of that DVR, why did you build an HTPC?

I can answer that for myself: commercial skip.

My 7MC is a DVR, period. That's all I intended it to be. I could have gotten Tivo, I guess, or used the cableco crap for a year while I waited for their whole-house solution to come out. (I hear from friends who went from standalone cableco crap to new whole house cableco solution that they love the whole house thing; compared to the standalone boxes, of *course* they do.) But years of ReplayTV spoiled me, and I knew that I could never, ever watch TV without commercial skip. I simply won't do it.

7MC with ShowAnalyzer was the *only* DVR out there that would do what I wanted in this new digital age.

That it extended *very* well with XBoxen was the second requirement. I was thrilled to see my idea of years ago come to fruition--a single multi-tuner recording tank with networked players. After all, it's the natural evolution of what ReplayTV was with each Replay seamlessly being able to stream from any other Replay, and to schedule shows to record on other Replays. Anyone who thinks Tivo today is the shizzle never had Replay of 10 years ago.

That's my story, anyway.

I would agree if I could actually get it to work. I've wasted too much time on this garbage already, and I've had it with constant crashes and System Restores, and the like. It's easier at this point just to iTunes/Torrent the shows I want without commercials. I don't really care about stuff I'm actually sitting down to watch, as I'm pretty fast at skipping through the commercials after years of TiVo and the Cable company DVRs, as long as I already have the remote in my hand.

[slowbiscuit]

Each to their own
I have a TiVo too and use it every now and then, but always go back to MCE.

I have a Tivo Elite and by far prefer it for day-to-day use over WMC, especially when combined with pyTivo, kmttg, and streambaby. I use WMC strictly to extend Cablecard tuners to secondary sets in the house, but when/if Tivo releases the Mini and I can get them for what I think is a reasonable price of about $150 (secondary market or whatever), I will ditch WMC.

WMC works well but its only advantage over Tivo to me is the cheaper whole home cost. I am hoping that now that SiliconDust has started down the DLNA/DTCP-IP road, we will see far better PC DVR solutions than the dead-end, crappy extender that won't play all formats model that is WMC.

[BiggAW]

Each to their own
I have a TiVo too and use it every now and then, but always go back to MCE.

I have a Tivo Elite and by far prefer it for day-to-day use over WMC, especially when combined with pyTivo, kmttg, and streambaby. I use WMC strictly to extend Cablecard tuners to secondary sets in the house, but when/if Tivo releases the Mini and I can get them for what I think is a reasonable price of about $150 (secondary market or whatever), I will ditch WMC.

WMC works well but its only advantage over Tivo to me is the cheaper whole home cost. I am hoping that now that SiliconDust has started down the DLNA/DTCP-IP road, we will see far better PC DVR solutions than the dead-end, crappy extender that won't play all formats model that is WMC.

Agreed. We need the combination of really good DVR software, and a good extender system. I don't think multiple HTPCs is a realistic solution, in cost, power consumption, and maintenance, HOWEVER, I think there's room for a better system. Although beating TiVo's UI will be hard. Man, I'm drooling over that TiVo Premiere XL4, I'm just not sure I can justify dropping another $900 after the MCE disaster.

[gpatlanta]

It's a shame you are having so much difficulty. I absolutely hated my SA DVR. I love my WMC machine and extenders as well as the features I've installed. My wife and everyone that comes to my house loves it and finds it quite intuitive to use. Every once in a while I experience repeat recordings, but that is the result of miscoded TV listings from the 3rd party listing provider MS uses. It did take me a while to get my install right when I started with Vista years back and things like Comm skip can be tricky for less technical installers since it is complex software on top of the MS framework. It took me a while to get it working and even still it is only available for non DRM network channels, but I still love it for that.

I hope your experience improves and if not it seems the cableco DVR meets your needs. For many of us we wouldn't trade our WMC features for anything on the market today. We certain,y are interested in new competition though since no new features are being developed and we hope for a comparable option that will be developed further.

[gpatlanta]

One other thing. If you are only looking for DVR perhaps something like TiVo is best. I use my WMc for music and Movie serving too, which is amazing.

[slowbiscuit]

Commercial skip is a huge advantage for WMC for non-protected content, but IMO the guide data quality is sub-par compared to Tivo. WMC will routinely record repeats for new-only series where my Tivo rarely does. Also, there are times when shows in the WMC guide are not correct (wrong show etc.) and again this rarely happens on Tivo. I believe adam has seen this too and commented on it, there were a couple of guide data quality (or lack thereof) threads about it here.

Tivo can also serve music and movies btw with the additional tools I mentioned, and will play pretty much anything I care about using pyTivo to push video to it.

[BiggAW]

It's a shame you are having so much difficulty. I absolutely hated my SA DVR. I love my WMC machine and extenders as well as the features I've installed. My wife and everyone that comes to my house loves it and finds it quite intuitive to use. Every once in a while I experience repeat recordings, but that is the result of miscoded TV listings from the 3rd party listing provider MS uses. It did take me a while to get my install right when I started with Vista years back and things like Comm skip can be tricky for less technical installers since it is complex software on top of the MS framework. It took me a while to get it working and even still it is only available for non DRM network channels, but I still love it for that.

I hope your experience improves and if not it seems the cableco DVR meets your needs. For many of us we wouldn't trade our WMC features for anything on the market today. We certain,y are interested in new competition though since no new features are being developed and we hope for a comparable option that will be developed further.

Even with it's idiocies, and basic missing features, I do like using MCE a little more than the SA box. That being said, it's still a poor DVR experience. I'm pretty technical, and I couldn't get it working. It would work well for me, since I have Comcast, they only DRM stupid channels like HBO who force them to do so.

I'll eventually move to TiVo, I don't want to pay $18/mo for that POS. I was just using it as an example as to how idiotic some of the missing features from MCE are, like SxxExx, and a list view, since the SA DVR had those.

One other thing. If you are only looking for DVR perhaps something like TiVo is best. I use my WMc for music and Movie serving too, which is amazing.

The promise was the scalability and low cost (since I wanted to have an HTPC anyways, regardless of DVR capability), but it's just not worth having a crappy user experience.

[BiggAW]

Commercial skip is a huge advantage for WMC for non-protected content, but IMO the guide data quality is sub-par compared to Tivo. WMC will routinely record repeats for new-only series where my Tivo rarely does. Also, there are some times when shows in the WMC guide are not correct (wrong show etc.) and again this rarely happens on Tivo. I believe adam has seen this too and commented on it, there were a couple of guide data quality (or lack thereof) threads about it here.

Tivo can also serve music and movies btw with the additional tools I mentioned, and will play pretty much anything I care about using pyTivo to push video to it.

Yup. It would be if I could get it to work. The guide data is definitely way sub-par.

[LuckyDay]

If you don't have series recordings set up, you clearly don't have any clue what a DVR is. That's the second most basic functionality (other than recording in the first place) that a DVR can have.

I didn't say I don't record seasons, I said I don't care about it not having whatever "season pass" is (I assume something Tivo does?). I record plenty of series.

I don't know if it's a service provider issue (I use WOW cable) or what, but my system has recorded repeats as new a few times over the course of two years. I don't have any issues with it recording series when they're on, and I never get duplicates (unless I tell it to record everything).

Right now, my system shows continuous uptime as 15 days. I believe the last reboot was for a hard drive install. I don't know what you're doing wrong or what problems you're having but they certainly aren't normal from what I've experienced in any of the PCs I've built.

I mean it sucks you're having issues, all of the problems you're describing would definitely sour my WMC experience if I had ever seen any of them. But I haven't.

[Venom51]

I'm out. You've already made up your mind that simply because you can't follow the instructions for setting things up that it's all too complicated and poorly designed.

Enjoy your Tivo.

[adam1991]

^^^^^^^^^^
That.

[richard1980]

Yup. The UI is not at all user-intuitive. It's so simple that it's confusing as to what the heck you're actually doing. Maybe it's because I'm not that familiar with Windows 7, even though I know Mac and Windows XP like the back of my hand, but still. Microsoft fail.

There's no nice way to say this, so I'm just going to be blunt. Your interpretation of how the "Record on drive" option works was absolutely retarded. How anybody could interpret it the way you did is beyond me.

I am well aware of that option. However, it doesn't WORK. New catches re-runs on the same or next day, so I end up with two copies. Good thing you build your own machine with a ton of storage for duplicate recordings!

The option to record new episodes works exactly like it is supposed to work. If you are seeing re-runs being recorded even though you selected to record new episodes only, it's because the EPG data is flawed. You can't expect any DVR to function correctly with flawed EPG data.

I understand that no one else does that on cable channels, and only DISH on the 'nets, but it still has been a maddening experience. I should have just set up iTunes and torrents in the first place. Would have been a lot easier.

The point was for you to point the finger in the correct direction. Don't blame WMC or Microsoft when the commercial skipping software (which was written by someone else) doesn't work to your liking. I don't know what you did or why it doesn't work, but it seems odd to me that so many other people use commercial skipping software without any complaints, so I personally don't think you have any right to be pointing fingers at anyone other than yourself.

This app, however, is required to bring MCE up to the level of functionality that TiVo has in terms of remote scheduling and the like.

I understand your position, but again, point the finger in the correct direction. Also realize that Ceton is actively working on fixing the application. I won't argue against the fact that Ceton released this (and the Echo) far too early.

Well, it doesn't for me. And I think it's fair to put blame on MCE for OS issues, since Microsoft built them both.

That is ridiculous. Next you'll be blaming Office for OS issues. And again, everybody else got it to work, so point the finger at yourself.

That was just a general complaint about HDMI, which is wonky on everything, but in reality, nothing else supports all analog.

Every modern TV and AVR I've ever seen support analog audio inputs.

It really is a remote issue, as this is a fundamental problem of HDMI.

That makes no sense. The remote has nothing to do with HDMI. My previous points both stand.

I don't know, but it is a problem that I have that I didn't create. Microsoft created it.

Microsoft didn't create your hardware and they didn't set your settings. You did.

Well, everything I do seem to create codec issues, although I have no clue why audio would. I'll try again today when I have enough time for a few reboots before a recording.

That's what you get when you start f'ing with the codecs and apply incorrect settings.

There's no intuitive way to make it change. It must be buried in some menu.

In the Recorded TV view, press the Info button (or right click with your mouse). TADA!

Because I'm scrolling through my recordings? I shouldn't have to scroll down AND sideways to get to a recording.

I'm sorry, but expecting the cursor to move any other direction other than down when you press the down arrow is just stupid. Additionally, what about the up arrow? When you get to the top of a column, would you have the up arrow move to the bottom of the column to the left? If so, how would one go about selecting the options at the top of the screen?

Which isn't obvious when you're button mashing through the menus.

It is obvious to me, and I think it is obvious to most everyone else. However, the obviousness is subjective.

Great, I need another add-in that might break my system to have a normal, standard now-playing list. That's idiotic.

It's not idiotic at all. That's the risk you take when you install software of any kind. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Software has been this way for as long as I can remember. It sounds to me like you just want a locked down system. If that's what you want, then rent a cable box from your cable company. Or go buy a TiVo. But don't sit around bad-mouthing WMC because you don't understand it.

No. MCE has fundamental problems in it's interface, software, stability, features, ETC. I have a way above average understanding of computers and electronics, and I'm having problem after problem with it. It's missing extremely basic functionality, and it has serious stability issues (in hindsight, that should have been obvious given it's running on Windows).

I'll agree that there are problems with WMC. But they aren't the problems you've described. Honestly, the problems you have described all boil down to your own lack of knowledge. You claim to have an above average understanding. News flash: The average person is already pretty stupid. So being above average is nothing special. WMC isn't designed to be used by people with an above average understanding. You need a truly in-depth understanding. You need to be a geek. Clearly, you aren't a geek. If you were, you would've fixed the issues you've been having, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[BiggAW]

I didn't say I don't record seasons, I said I don't care about it not having whatever "season pass" is (I assume something Tivo does?). I record plenty of series.

I don't know if it's a service provider issue (I use WOW cable) or what, but my system has recorded repeats as new a few times over the course of two years. I don't have any issues with it recording series when they're on, and I never get duplicates (unless I tell it to record everything).

Right now, my system shows continuous uptime as 15 days. I believe the last reboot was for a hard drive install. I don't know what you're doing wrong or what problems you're having but they certainly aren't normal from what I've experienced in any of the PCs I've built.

I mean it sucks you're having issues, all of the problems you're describing would definitely sour my WMC experience if I had ever seen any of them. But I haven't.

Season Pass is the original name that TiVo invented for a series recording, and it's a trademark of theirs (or something like that), so other DVRs call it series link or series recording or other weird names. They can be functionally equivalent is the DVR has decent guide data. Hence, when someone uses the term "Season Pass", they have a reasonable expectation to assume that it will be used in the generic sense like Kleenex to cover series recordings as well.

I'm out. You've already made up your mind that simply because you can't follow the instructions for setting things up that it's all too complicated and poorly designed.

Enjoy your Tivo.

I have clearly pointed out why the interface is idiotic. It's not my setup, it's the design of MCE. It's just bad.

Yup. The UI is not at all user-intuitive. It's so simple that it's confusing as to what the heck you're actually doing. Maybe it's because I'm not that familiar with Windows 7, even though I know Mac and Windows XP like the back of my hand, but still. Microsoft fail.

There's no nice way to say this, so I'm just going to be blunt. Your interpretation of how the "Record on drive" option works was absolutely retarded. How anybody could interpret it the way you did is beyond me.

I am well aware of that option. However, it doesn't WORK. New catches re-runs on the same or next day, so I end up with two copies. Good thing you build your own machine with a ton of storage for duplicate recordings!

The option to record new episodes works exactly like it is supposed to work. If you are seeing re-runs being recorded even though you selected to record new episodes only, it's because the EPG data is flawed. You can't expect any DVR to function correctly with flawed EPG data.

I understand that no one else does that on cable channels, and only DISH on the 'nets, but it still has been a maddening experience. I should have just set up iTunes and torrents in the first place. Would have been a lot easier.

The point was for you to point the finger in the correct direction. Don't blame WMC or Microsoft when the commercial skipping software (which was written by someone else) doesn't work to your liking. I don't know what you did or why it doesn't work, but it seems odd to me that so many other people use commercial skipping software without any complaints, so I personally don't think you have any right to be pointing fingers at anyone other than yourself.

This app, however, is required to bring MCE up to the level of functionality that TiVo has in terms of remote scheduling and the like.

I understand your position, but again, point the finger in the correct direction. Also realize that Ceton is actively working on fixing the application. I won't argue against the fact that Ceton released this (and the Echo) far too early.

Well, it doesn't for me. And I think it's fair to put blame on MCE for OS issues, since Microsoft built them both.

That is ridiculous. Next you'll be blaming Office for OS issues. And again, everybody else got it to work, so point the finger at yourself.

That was just a general complaint about HDMI, which is wonky on everything, but in reality, nothing else supports all analog.

Every modern TV and AVR I've ever seen support analog audio inputs.

It really is a remote issue, as this is a fundamental problem of HDMI.

That makes no sense. The remote has nothing to do with HDMI. My previous points both stand.

I don't know, but it is a problem that I have that I didn't create. Microsoft created it.

Microsoft didn't create your hardware and they didn't set your settings. You did.

Well, everything I do seem to create codec issues, although I have no clue why audio would. I'll try again today when I have enough time for a few reboots before a recording.

That's what you get when you start messing with the codecs and apply incorrect settings.

There's no intuitive way to make it change. It must be buried in some menu.

In the Recorded TV view, press the Info button (or right click with your mouse). TADA!

Because I'm scrolling through my recordings? I shouldn't have to scroll down AND sideways to get to a recording.

I'm sorry, but expecting the cursor to move any other direction other than down when you press the down arrow is just stupid. Additionally, what about the up arrow? When you get to the top of a column, would you have the up arrow move to the bottom of the column to the left? If so, how would one go about selecting the options at the top of the screen?

Which isn't obvious when you're button mashing through the menus.

It is obvious to me, and I think it is obvious to most everyone else. However, the obviousness is subjective.

Great, I need another add-in that might break my system to have a normal, standard now-playing list. That's idiotic.

It's not idiotic at all. That's the risk you take when you install software of any kind. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Software has been this way for as long as I can remember. It sounds to me like you just want a locked down system. If that's what you want, then rent a cable box from your cable company. Or go buy a TiVo. But don't sit around bad-mouthing WMC because you don't understand it.

No. MCE has fundamental problems in it's interface, software, stability, features, ETC. I have a way above average understanding of computers and electronics, and I'm having problem after problem with it. It's missing extremely basic functionality, and it has serious stability issues (in hindsight, that should have been obvious given it's running on Windows).

I'll agree that there are problems with WMC. But they aren't the problems you've described. Honestly, the problems you have described all boil down to your own lack of knowledge. You claim to have an above average understanding. News flash: The average person is already pretty stupid. So being above average is nothing special. WMC isn't designed to be used by people with an above average understanding. You need a truly in-depth understanding. You need to be a geek. Clearly, you aren't a geek. If you were, you would've fixed the issues you've been having, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Holy crap. Too tired to break up the quotes.

The record drive thing makes it look like it's using two different drives. It's just a piss poor UI element. As are some of the other settings menus.

Fine, then the EPG data is flawed, because that why my MCE machine IS DOING. I've never had guide data issues like that on either Comcast or TiVo.

I'm sorry that I followed all the directions, and it was a total mess. I have a way above average knowledge of Windows and software installation and computer troubleshooting, and if I couldn't get it to work, 99.9% of the population wouldn't be able to either...

I finally did get the Ceton app to connect, but what was irritating is that I didn't change anything to correct it, so now I have no way to know what was causing the problem or when/if it will pop up again.

I am running a very clean, very simple MCE setup without much of anything else on the machine other than Chrome, VLC, and F@H, so if mine is having issues, I can only imagine what a more complex setup would have. It is fair to blame the OS on a DVR, as TiVo and Comcast control the whole thing top to bottom, so even when talking about an open OS where you can install and modify it, you should still be able to hold Microsoft accountable for both the front- and back-ends. The only time you can give the OS a pass is if you were using third-party software on TOP of Windows.

Nothing else supports analog 5.1, which was what was implied there if you trace it back. Analog 5.1 never really had much traction in the first place, as the earlier system were using component with SPIDIF or coaxial.

My point about HDMI, if you read my post, is that the volume control is a fundamental HDMI problem, so most other remotes (including Comcast and TiVo) have adapted by adding universal volume control on the remote.

Microsoft wrote the software, top to bottom, so they would naturally bear responsibility for how it performs. I should have been able to figure out that running a DVR on Windows was a bad idea. 7 is a lot better than before, but it's still Windows. Oh well, live and learn.

I didn't do ANYTHING to my codecs. They are all default, standard, whatever.

Yeah, I finally found that option, and it makes absolutely no sense to be in to the info option under a specific recording.

It's stupid to want a usable and convenient UI? Should everything look like Symbian, where you have to click through 15 sub-menus to do ANYTHING? If that was a good model, then Apple wouldn't have had a huge hit with the iPhone. They could just use a freaking list like every other DVR on the planet. Microsoft decided they needed to re-invent the wheel, and this awful interface is what they ended up with. TiVo and Comcast stuck with the existing model, and it works a lot better.

It's easy to miss if you are going through the menus fast. All this would be solved with a normal, standard list of what you recorded.

It is idiotic that you need a third-party add-in just to build back up to the basic interface that a Scientific Atlanta box has. That's pathetic, and inexcusable. It should be standard in the first place. If they want to add other views, fine, go to town, but the standard, basic view should be the first thing they do before going and trying to force everyone into adapter to some bizarre, non-standard way of doing things.

My lack of knowledge? Basic, obvious, and inherent usability problems are because of my lack of knowledge? I DON'T THINK SO. They are because Microsoft screwed up the UI. Yes, it's pretty, but when you actually try to use it, it's a mess. It's like they were pre-copying Nokia years before they entered into a partnership with them. Nokia is famous for requiring many clicks to do anything.

A lot of the problems that I am describing are fundamental to the way MCE works (or, in reality, doesn't), not because I don't understand how to do something. MCE was a nice idea, but Microsoft screwed it up. I still have some hope for PC-based DVRs, as the hardware platform is great, but given that Microsoft stopped development, it's definitely not going to be MCE.

Of course I expected fanboy-ism when I posted on TGB, as opposed to, say, TCF, where I would probably get a loud chorus of agreement, but I didn't expect downright denialism about some of the nonsensical parts of the MCE interface. If you just learn to live with it, fine, but you can't just say that it's not a problem. Because it is.

[LuckyDay]

Season Pass is the original name that TiVo invented for a series recording, and it's a trademark of theirs (or something like that), so other DVRs call it series link or series recording or other weird names. They can be functionally equivalent is the DVR has decent guide data. Hence, when someone uses the term "Season Pass", they have a reasonable expectation to assume that it will be used in the generic sense like Kleenex to cover series recordings as well.

Yeah, I figured, but I didn't know if Season Pass did something special that standard series recording on other DVRs doesn't.

I have had no issues with recording series picking up reruns. I have seen it a couple of times where it misses a show because the network moved or delayed it (it happened once last year when there was a state of the Union speech on a Thursday night and NBC moved 30 Rock to Wednesday). I don't know if that typically updates on the EPG or not.

[foxwood]

denialism

The only one in denial here is you.

You keep going on about a GUI element that most people will only ever see once or twice in years of using WMC, (the first time when they are exploring the system, the second years later when they add a new hard drive) and how it must be badly designed because it wasn't bleeding obvious to you that you only need a single recording location. Why the hell would you record to two different locations? How would you ever manage disk space, or scripting if you couldn't predict which one of multiple locations new recordings might appear in?

And you're still on about episode numbers? You can't admit that they have no purpose on a DVR except for sorting, and WMC already does that? You make baseless claims about PBS shows without actually providing examples, so that people can explain how you were wrong about that too.

Oh, and "Season Pass"? Really? You've actually used WMC and missed the "Record Series" option? There are 4 and 5 year old kids who have managed to figure out what that means!

[Venom51]

I have clearly pointed out why the interface is idiotic. It's not my setup, it's the design of MCE. It's just bad.