Upgrade to Windows 8 from Vista?

[wally77]

I see a decent amount of negative posts about W8 MC, and the consensus seems to be don't bother updating from W7, however, I have a fairly old Vista HTPC without the TV Pack. I've run the Windows 8 check and it all seems to be good, and got my Media Center key, but I do have some concerns seeing all of the negative comments on it. However, the current price point for Windows 8 is attractive.

My current set up works fine, except that I cannot us ClearQAM or HD off of the Charter cable box. Also, I don't believe the cablecard tuners work in Vista w/o TV Pack, so it would prevent that upgrade path.

My concerns to upgrading would be the following:
DRM licenses. If I did an upgrade, would the DRM rights be retained? Same machine, upgrading the OS, not a fresh install, so theoretically it should. There is a good bit of content that I wouldn't want lost if I can avoid it.

No more Webguide. I only use it for remote scheduling these days, but it is handy. I haven't checked to see if there are new apps that would do this though.

No more firewire control of the cablebox. I guess this isn't a big deal, but it seems more reliable.

Are there any other potential pitfalls to avoid?

I guess an alternative option would be to set a system restore point and attempt a TV pack install. From what I understand, that can work as well.

Thanks for any advice

[lithium630]

Are you using a cablecard tuner now? Otherwise I'm not sure what DRM you are concerned with. As far as I know, if you do clean install you will lose copy protected shows. If you do an upgrade, you should be all set. I heard TV Pack can be a nightmare, but I didn't have any issues with it. That being said, Windows 7 is so much better than Vista that it's definitely worth upgrading. I haven't tried Windows 8 on my htpc (and don't plan to).

As far as webguide, the Ceton Companion app works great. It has many more features, minus the streaming right now.

[wally77]

Thanks for the reply. I am not using a cablecard tuner currently, but have been considering getting one.

By DRM, I was referring to the copy protected shows. Not sure if DRM is actually the correct term.

[lithium630]

You shouldn't have any copy protected shows to worry about.

[foxwood]

Thanks for the reply. I am not using a cablecard tuner currently, but have been considering getting one.

By DRM, I was referring to the copy protected shows. Not sure if DRM is actually the correct term.

How would you have copy protected shows if you're currently using the "analog hole" to get a signal out of the cable box (you didn't explain what you're currently using, but if you don't have a cable card, you don't have any copy protected shows recorded).

[wally77]

I currently have a motorola cable box from charter hooked via coax to a Hauppauge 1800 tuner card. A vast majority of the programs are not permitted to be watched except on the original HTPC (not over webguide, not on another machine on the network, etc). They are also not permitted to be burned to DVD. I get a message that the content is protected.

[foxwood]

I currently have a motorola cable box from charter hooked via coax to a Hauppauge 1800 tuner card. A vast majority of the programs are not permitted to be watched except on the original HTPC (not over webguide, not on another machine on the network, etc). They are also not permitted to be burned to DVD. I get a message that the content is protected.

The 1800 isn't capable of capturing protected content - it only has ATSC/NTSC and ClearQAM tuners.

[barnabas1969]

I currently have a motorola cable box from charter hooked via coax to a Hauppauge 1800 tuner card. A vast majority of the programs are not permitted to be watched except on the original HTPC (not over webguide, not on another machine on the network, etc). They are also not permitted to be burned to DVD. I get a message that the content is protected.

The 1800 isn't capable of capturing protected content - it only has ATSC/NTSC and ClearQAM tuners.

It's possible that they are protected by a flag that is set in the actual video data. This is possible with any analog source, including the 75-ohm coax output of a cable box. I can't remember what it's call off-hand, but I know it exists.

[richard1980]

Broadcast flag.

[barnabas1969]

Broadcast flag.

Yeah, but there's more technical information about it that I can't remember at the moment.

[richard1980]

OK, how about CCI (Copy Control Information) and CGMS-A (Copy Generation Management System - Analog)? CCI is digital and CGMS-A is obviously analog.

[foxwood]

CCI isn't possible on a ClearQAM signal, but I guess it could be CGMS-A. Though it's hard to see why they'd bother (apart from typical cable company bone-headedness) as clearqam isn't used for premium content anyway.

But I would have thought that cable equipment that generated a deliberate CGMS-A flag on everything, including the local broadcast channels, would be infringing various FCC regulations?

[RyC]

My InfiniTV recorded programs with the CGMS-A flag when my cablecard wasn't activated. Hasn't appeared since activation, since I think CCI supersedes everything else. So it's definitely possible that possible that CGMS-A is set on his analog recordings

[richard1980]

CCI isn't possible on a ClearQAM signal

I thought it was possible for the flag to exist, but it would normally be ignored unless the tuner is a CableCARD tuner, in which case the flag would have to be honored. Maybe I'm wrong.

But I would have thought that cable equipment that generated a deliberate CGMS-A flag on everything, including the local broadcast channels, would be infringing various FCC regulations?

WRT broadcast channels, you are correct. The limitations on copy protection apply to a "covered product", which is defined in 47 CFR § 76.1902(g), which states, "Covered product shall mean a device used by consumers to access commercial audiovisual content offered by a covered entity (excluding delivery via cable modem or the Internet); and any device to which commercial audiovisual content so delivered from such covered product may be passed, directly or indirectly." In other words, the rule covers both the cable box and anything downstream from the cable box. However, content that is allowed to be marked copy protected can retain that copy protection status as it exits the cable box.

[wally77]

Yes, the broadcast flag sounds right from previous research. It's definitely there.

I'm leaning towards the upgrade, as being able to watch HD content through the HTPC/cablebox and the ability to get a cablecard would be very nice.

[wally77]

Welp, that turned out to be a whole bunch of fail.

The DRM/broadcast flags did not follow with the upgrade. Not sure if anything can be done about that now.

I still cannot watch HD programming. Only now, the SD shows are letterboxed as 16:9 inside a 4:3 letterbox on a 16:9 screen (if you can follow that). So they only take up about half of the screen. Annoying.

ClearQAM tuner is only picking up 4 channels. That seems very odd. At least they work in HD.

I've got more tinkering to do, but so far, I would not recommend the upgrade.

[lithium630]

Welp, that turned out to be a whole bunch of fail.

The DRM/broadcast flags did not follow with the upgrade. Not sure if anything can be done about that now.

I still cannot watch HD programming. Only now, the SD shows are letterboxed as 16:9 inside a 4:3 letterbox on a 16:9 screen (if you can follow that). So they only take up about half of the screen. Annoying.

ClearQAM tuner is only picking up 4 channels. That seems very odd. At least they work in HD.

I've got more tinkering to do, but so far, I would not recommend the upgrade.

As far as the ClearQAM, usually the problem is Media Center only adds channels that it can find guide data for. You can enable the rest of them in Edit Channels in Settings. Check all the boxes that don't have a lock next to them. You can use the SiliconDust website to see what channels you should get.

http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/

Any other missing channels can be added manually.

[digitalvideodude]

I have no hesitation for highly recommending upgrading to either W7pro or W8pro from Vista. I have older equip P35/P43 chipsets with Quad Intel 9450cpu with some decent but old Nvidia 260/285 video cards.

My Vista system can not properly playback LiveTV or recorded TV in MCE player. It will play somewhat ok w/recorded MCE files in MS Media Player or VLC in Vista, but the Video Quality and Playback is far superior with W7 or W8.

I have dumped my Vista 64bit SP2 OS, because it can't handle video playback to my expectations... terrible! vs W8/W7.

I actually "like" W8 and don't mind learning new features [but can be avoided or "turned off" too] ... MS "app" stores have potential. I found some cool free apps already that only can obtained for W8 exclusively, so that might be a great resource for lower cost/free software not long from now... Windows portable/tablet/mini devices finally catching-up with Apple/Google with "apps" in maybe a few years... ???

If you want "old school" w/o apps, then go with W7pro... probably can get cheap legal copies off ebay & such... since W8 is available now.

[foxwood]

If you want "old school" w/o apps, then go with W7pro... probably can get cheap legal copies off ebay & such... since W8 is available now.

You can buy a perfectly legit version of Win7 Home Premium which includes WMC for $100 from New egg.

It will cost $150 to get the Pro version of Win8 with the WMC upgrade. I'm not sure it's worth the extra $50, if your main interest is WMC.