Echo vs. DMA2100

[kingwr]

My Echo arrived today, and I immediately hooked it up next to one of my DMA2100s for a side-by-side comparison. These devices are hooked to the same Media Center computer over the same 100GB network and to the same TV via HDMI.

First I love the size of the Echo. Very compact (1/8 the volume of the DMA). Unfortunately my satisfaction with the Echo ends there.

Boot up time from power on for the Echo is 42 seconds. The DMA uses a standby mode and has a ten second boot up time. Boot up time from power cycle of the DMA is about 40 seconds, even with the DNS hack. (I leave my DMA2100s on all the time so this is not top priority)

Responsiveness of the UI in the Echo is substantially worse than the DMA. There is a noticeable delay between button pushes and UI response. This may have something to do with the 1080P default display. The DMA is very responsive with the SSD-based MC7 computer.

The Echo played live TV and recorded TV (MPEG2) in WTV files just fine. However both DVD rips (MPEG2) and Blu-ray rips (MPEG-4) have substantial stutter (video pauses but not audio). All of my MP2 videos seem to play, but my WMV home movies made in Movie Maker do not play - just audio with a black screen and "buffering" displayed on the screen. All of these files play just fine on the DMA2100.

The Echo's remote is very weak and must be relatively close to the extender. The DMA's remote works by bouncing the signal off the wall so the DMA can be mounted behind the TV and still work great.

Most dissappointing, perhaps, is that the Echo is just an extender (and not even a good one) and nothing else. No web browser, no apps, nothing beyond standard Extender functionality that the DMA has.

I know that Ceton will certainly fix some the file playback issues in future updates, and they may add a standby to improve boot-up time. But I wonder if the UI responsiveness issue is a hardware limitation beyond fixing. I think I may send it back to Amazon and go after some the folks selling their DMA2100s.

[barnabas1969]

I've never figured out how to use the "standby mode" that people speak of with the DMA-2200. How do you do it?

My Linksys and HP extenders take 70+ seconds to come up and be ready to go. The Echo beats them, but I'd like to be 15 seconds or less. I've asked Ceton repeatedly to make the Echo do some kind of "warm start" as an option in the settings menu.

Make sure to remove the protective film that is on the front (and back) of the Echo. Some users reported problems with IR reception until they removed the film.

TBH, I am not overly impressed by the Echo either. I was part of the beta. I'm hoping that it will improve substantially and quickly, like the Companion app did, now that the device is generally available. It's a damn shame that Ceton released the product in this condition, but I'm hopeful that they'll fix it soon. With both the Companion and Echo, I feel like the "beta" testers were actually "alpha" testers... and the "release" was actually the beta. For folks who are willing to fiddle with the device, and patient enough to wait... I think it will be a good product. But for the typical consumer... they'll simply ship it back.

[kingwr]

Another complaint: the power brick and front USB connector means you need at least four inches of clearance in front of your plug. Even if the remote was powerful enough to bounce off walls so that the relatively tiny extender could be mounted on the back of the TV, the power brick is too big to plug into an outlet behind the TV. Even my recessed outlet (about 1 inch deep) behind the TV plus the 1.8 inch clearance of the mounting bracket probably wouldn't accommodate the plug. Another bummer.

[barnabas1969]

How about something like this?

[kingwr]

I've never figured out how to use the "standby mode" that people speak of with the DMA-2200. How do you do it?

On mine, the standby is just what happens when you press the power button. The problem is that the device is not stable in standby. It works great if you turn it off and then turn it on 20 minutes later. But leave it in standby for a couple of days and your power cycling the DMA2100 to get it to come back up. Not every time, mind you, but enough times that it's just easier to leave the things on. When on, they stay stable, even if the MC7 computer is rebooted.

[barnabas1969]

Mine doesn't work that way at all. If I press the power button on the remote, it turns off. Then, the next time I turn it on... it takes what seems like forever. I searched the settings in the DMA, and I found no mention of a standby mode. As I wrote earlier, the Echo is almost twice as fast at booting as the Linksys and HP extenders. I have one Linksys DMA-2200 and three HP X280N's. I like the HP's a lot better than the Linksys, but if Ceton could just solve a few problems on the Echo... I'd replace all four with Echos.

I almost exclusively use my extenders for live/recorded TV, so I don't have a problem with other media files. However, it would be nice to have more media compatibility on the Echo. My biggest two gripes with the Echo are A) startup time, and B) stutter with 1080i content. Everything else works fine.

[kingwr]

I guess we're getting off topic, but the "standby" mode of the DMA2100 may be a function of Media Center? I press the power button, and the unit shuts off the signal to the TV after a second or two. This causes the TV to show "no signal" and then power-off. The blue light on the front of the DMA2100 remains on/solid. When I turn the unit back on, the TV powers on and the screen shows "connecting to Media Center" and then shows the logo and plays the startup sound and is back at the main menu in about 10 seconds.

The four factors I was looking for to drive me to upgrade were size, power-up time, H.264 support in WTV, and enhanced features (e.g. web browsing, Netflix, etc.). The Echo definitely wins on size and H.264 in a WTV file purportedly works. The other two are sorely lacking, and even if they are fixed over time, I don't think I could take a step backward on UI responsiveness in order to get a other features that are simply on par with the DMA2100. I think the experience I was looking for was the originally promised vision which required a mature Echo and a Q on the backend. The only way Ceton is going to be able to move Media Center forward is to somehow wrest control of Media Center from Microsoft. If I could do anything to effect that change, I would, because I think Ceton has the focus and vision to make Media Center what it could/should be after 9 years of trying (or not trying, as the case may be)...

Wow! Has it been 9 years? I bought my first Media Center computer in December of 2003 for my daughter's playroom (she was 1) and have had a Media Center ecosystem running in my home ever since. All the money and time I have put into it, and yet it has never been able to best my DirecTV solution such that I moved it into my primary viewing areas (living room and master bedroom). DirecTV has remained several steps ahead in technology over the course of that 9 years. What a lost opportunity for Microsoft! And what a waste of time this has been for me, too!

[tombardo]

For my DMA2100 I leave it on all the time but close media center (there is a button on the top right of the remote with a very ambigous icon). In this state the blue light stays on and the screen displays a linksys startup menu allowing you to pick between starting media center and a settings menu. From here it takes about 10-15 seconds to be watching live TV.

[foxwood]

For my DMA2100 I leave it on all the time but close media center (there is a button on the top right of the remote with a very ambigous icon). In this state the blue light stays on and the screen displays a linksys startup menu allowing you to pick between starting media center and a settings menu. From here it takes about 10-15 seconds to be watching live TV.

That's not a sleep mode - I really doubt there'd be any power difference on the Extender whether it's in the Extender GUI, or in the main menu. You can save that 15 seconds startup by just staying in Extender mode.

(It is a good idea to train yourself to hit the Stop button if you're done watching Live TV, though!)

[spanner]

For my DMA2100 I leave it on all the time but close media center (there is a button on the top right of the remote with a very ambigous icon). In this state the blue light stays on and the screen displays a linksys startup menu allowing you to pick between starting media center and a settings menu. From here it takes about 10-15 seconds to be watching live TV.

That's not a sleep mode - I really doubt there'd be any power difference on the Extender whether it's in the Extender GUI, or in the main menu. You can save that 15 seconds startup by just staying in Extender mode.

(It is a good idea to train yourself to hit the Stop button if you're done watching Live TV, though!)

I also leave my 2100, on but close media center. not sure if it is still a problem but when i left it in media center it would always be rebuilding libraries or other background stuff that would slowdown the network or sometimes use to much cpu on my main HTPC. closing to the linksys screen solved that for me. So far I haven't seen this with my echo and have just left it on.

[kingwr]

I use the power button on top right of the remote too. But I don't get the menu, I get "no signal" which turns my TV off. Are you connecting through HDMI?

[barnabas1969]

Blue light? My DMA-2200 doesn't have a blue light. The light turns green when it's on, and red when it's off.

Is this something different between the 2200 and 2100?

But, yes, kingwr... I agree with you about the promised features of the Echo. If they can deliver a sub-15-second startup, and support for Netflix/Hulu/etc, I'll be a happy camper.

[STC]

^^ Yep, 2200's have an eye burning high bright blue LED, as well as the display matrix.

[kingwr]

My DMA2100s all have a single blue light. It is off when the unit is off, flashes when the unit is cold booting (40-45 secs.) and remains on when the unit is on or in standby. One thing that may make a difference in "standby" is the connection type. I don't think the HDMI is active in standby, but it may still be displaying a non-MCE internal menu over the composite while in "standby."

[tombardo]

I use the power button on top right of the remote too. But I don't get the menu, I get "no signal" which turns my TV off. Are you connecting through HDMI?

I am connected via HDMI, but I don't think that matters. At least for the DMA 2100 (not sure about the 2200) there is a button on the remote just below the power button in the top right. It closes media center and the screen shows the linksys menu. It was easier to train my wife to do this than it was to have her stop live tv all the time when she was done watching.

[lovemyram4x4]

I didn't actually time it but the ceton seemed slower to boot than my 2200 on the times it actually finished booting, I've had the screen go blank after the acetone splash screen & after waiting a min or so I reboot it.

For me the ceton at times seemed more responsive than my 2200 but then out of the blue a button press would be so slow I'd push it again then shortly after get both pushes. Playback of recorded & live TV seemed quicker on the ceton. The picture quality on the menus on the ceton look like garbage compared to the 2200 on the bedroom TV(I bought a second one to possibly replace the main htpc for normal daily use, I hope it's big 73'' screen).

I was also very disappointed that the ceton doesn't show my 7mc's wall paper like the 2200 does & I don't recalling having to do anything special for it to work on it.

I have only installed the one I got for the bedroom so I haven't tested it much, but so far I'm not too impressed & a bit let down, bug with what I've seen with my infinitv 4s I can't say I'm surprised.

[lovemyram4x4]

Well after a few days of use I'd have to say my DMA2200 beats the echo on just about everything except for what the companion app brings to the table.

My DMA2200 as mentioned displays my theme properly, displays what's currently playing preview properly while in recorded TV, plays play on/play it, and doesn't crash if left running while TV/AVR is powered off then later powered back on, or even just switching inputs on the AVR.

[barnabas1969]

Well after a few days of use I'd have to say my DMA2200 beats the echo on just about everything except for what the companion app brings to the table.

The Companion app works with all extenders, including the DMA-2200.

[lovemyram4x4]

Well after a few days of use I'd have to say my DMA2200 beats the echo on just about everything except for what the companion app brings to the table.

The Companion app works with all extenders, including the DMA-2200.

Oh, i guess it does. That explains why my echoes showed as mcx2 & 3. It also doesn't help that not only did I normally leave my DMA2200 off when not in us, but I got the app after I had put the 1st echo in it's place.

Well now I have even more buyers remorse. Now the only possible reason to keep these echoes is if win8 support doesn't come the MS side & if the video playback ever improves enough for BD rip playback.

I was going to see what happens during the return window, but now I'm leaning back toward just returning them now again.

[kingwr]

Thought I would pull the Echo out of the box and give it another try with the latest firmware (1221).

First a couple of notes from the initial test. The DMA2100 is set to "No animated transitions," so I setup the Echo for this as well to make the comparison fairer. I also set the DMA2100 for native resolution to match the default on the new Echo firmware.

I noticed that the Echo now defaults to 720p for the menu. This must be an attempt to make the UI more responsive. Overall, the UI responsiveness seems improved. Don't know if it is because of new firmware, 720P resolution, "No animated transitions" setting, or a combination of these. However, it is still not as responsive as the DMA2100, which has no perceptible delay between button press and UI response. Also, using the DMA2100's remote with the Echo is better, in that the IR signal is strong enough to bounce of walls, so you don't get the occasional button press skip that you get with the Ceton remote, but the Echo's UI is no more responsive with the DMA2100 remote than it is with the cheap Ceton remote.

Also, I noted in my initial post that "All of these files [including the MPEG-4 Blu-ray rips] play just fine on the DMA2100." This is not accurate. The MPEG-4 Blu-ray rips don't play well on the DMA2100s, and even worse on the XBox 360. On the Echo with the new firmware (1221), the MPEG-4 files don't stutter as bad as on the DMA2100s, but there are a lot of pauses in both the video and audio, until finally it appears to lock-up playback completely after a minute or two.

As far as the MPEG2 DVD rips, these still have stutter on the Echo but play smooth as silk on the DMA2100. I see no improvement there. Also my home movies (WMV files) still do not play - just black screen with audio.

Overall, no real improvement in the Echo with newer firmware other than UI responsiveness (which, as I said, may be from other settings.) Hoping for something better soon.