infiniTV & macroblocking

[MeInDallas]

Heres what I have installed now. I clicked on update but it says no new ones. I guess I have to uninstall the Ceton software again and install the new one. Looks like theres newer drivers than what I have installed.

[grinchy]

Just posting my v1.2.2.6 experiences after about 2 months - the macroblocking has definately been reduced for me (though not completely eliminated). I rarely see it now - maybe 2-3 times in an hour, tops; before it was much more frequent. TWC in BigD w/SDV

The real world result for me is that I have to look for it now (carefully), whereas it was readily obvious before. Overall, a good improvement.

[magno101]

Hi Grinchy,

I'm glad to hear others are having a better time. I'm unfortunately not in that boat.

I find it interesting how when I initially tune to the channel it's ok for a while, but when it starts up there's no helping it. It happens 3-4 times a minute for me.

I installed the RMA device that Ceton sent me, but still no joy. Same hardware version as I had before.

Awaiting Ceton's response in my ticket. Will keep y'all posted.

[grinchy]

Hi Grinchy,

I'm glad to hear others are having a better time. I'm unfortunately not in that boat.

I find it interesting how when I initially tune to the channel it's ok for a while, but when it starts up there's no helping it. It happens 3-4 times a minute for me.

I installed the RMA device that Ceton sent me, but still no joy. Same hardware version as I had before.

Awaiting Ceton's response in my ticket. Will keep y'all posted.

I haven't looked over the entire thread, so maybe you answered - but are you using WMC extenders? And if so, do you see it there? I see it on both my extenders and main HTPC which rules out video card issues for me. My signal is also very good (usually +/-5dbmV).

I'm curious - is the hard drive you're recording on possibly going bad? I know it's a long shot, but maybe something to consider? FWIW, I've had to RMA a few times with Ceton over the years (unrelated to macroblocking) and have noticed the same macroblocking on various PHYSICAL versions of the iTV cards in circulation. I'm feel strongly it's some sort of HW or FW problem (as the the latest beta seems to support). Then again, maybe it's TA related, but I've swapped it out a couple of times as well.

Good luck and hope you (and Ceton) can nail down the problem.

[magno101]

I'm still running into the issue.

My HD is a new Western Digital Black WD2002FAEX 2TB drive. I suppose the IOPs on this aren't the greatest, but all other channels come in ok so I can't believe this would only be a problem with Channel 105 and 107 if it were a Hard Drive issue.

I'm seriously considering purchasing a HDHomeRun Prime to see if it has the same issues. I'd be very sad to loose one tuner, but I'd be much happier with TV that didn't stutter.

[jaimeknapp]

Mag ?

I am absolutely convinced the problem on TWC in San Antonio with 105 & 107 has nothing to do directly with our Ceton cards. I have the same screen anomalies on another PC with a Hauppauge 2250 tuning to their clear QAM values. I have observed both screens at the same time and they appear at the same points in time. I have gone to great lengths, including adding a tilt compensator to get all of my signals into the 0 to +8dB range with > 36 dB SNR. My next trial is to add an 860mHz low-pass filter directly in front of the Ceton, as I am beginning to suspect something may occasionally be present on the line that interferes *only* with the 723000 frequency both those channels use.

[xnappo]

Mag ?

I am absolutely convinced the problem on TWC in San Antonio with 105 & 107 has nothing to do directly with our Ceton cards.

Very interesting. I am on TWC in Austin and also have problems with 723Mhz. The new firmware seems to have lessened the occurrence to some degree. I never had this before ~October 2012.

In Austin, 723Mhz is an SDV channel, so it bounces around.

xnappo

[crawfish]

Mag ?

I am absolutely convinced the problem on TWC in San Antonio with 105 & 107 has nothing to do directly with our Ceton cards. I have the same screen anomalies on another PC with a Hauppauge 2250 tuning to their clear QAM values. I have observed both screens at the same time and they appear at the same points in time. I have gone to great lengths, including adding a tilt compensator to get all of my signals into the 0 to +8dB range with > 36 dB SNR. My next trial is to add an 860mHz low-pass filter directly in front of the Ceton, as I am beginning to suspect something may occasionally be present on the line that interferes *only* with the 723000 frequency both those channels use.

Some HDHR users have reported LTE interference to cause intermittent pixelation or macroblocking, and it's in the 700-800 MHz range. I was getting occasional pixelation with my HDHR Prime, which I also observed on the Motorola DVR in the other room. Cox found nothing wrong at my house, but a tech somewhere in the field called me back a couple of days later to tell me to expect the problem to be fixed. It's been good since then, maybe a year or so at this point. I don't know what the problem was. Before swapping out hardware more expensive than a splitter, I'd try to verify the problem doesn't occur on unrelated equipment. If it doesn't, I'd try substituting it for the PC if possible to rule out any overt problems with the PC's cabling.

[magno101]

Thanks for the reply jaimeknapp, and everyone after.

Ceton has honorably given up and offered to refund my purchase price for the InfiniTV card. This gave me the opportunity to purchase and test out the HDHomeRun Prime. I hoked it up this morning and what do you know, the same issue is present! I'm very interested to hear about the LTE interference (thanks crawfish) (I've got an LTE cell tower a block down the road and 3 LTE Phones in the house), but I'm really curious to see how the combination of the tilt compensator and the low-pass filter work out. I'm holding on to the InfiniTV for the time being as it was my original choice of cards. I'd love to see if this issue can be resolved without me having to send it back for a refund.

Now that I have the HDHomeRun though, I'm going to try and set it up on a different computer (thanks to the network tuner aspect) and see if the same glitch is present. Should have some testing done this weekend. I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes.

Thanks!

Edit: I'm having TWC come by and asking them to install the low pass filter. We'll see if that helps the situation.

[jaimeknapp]

Mag,

I added the tilt compensator into my system the other day. Prior to that, I had 18dB difference between my lowest and highest signals (+6.4 - +24.4dBmV) using the AllCetonSignals script. Yes, I know, this was hot, I was testing. After it, the range droppped to 8dB difference (+4.8 - +12.8dBmV). At this point, using the 1.1.8.2 firmware and 1.5.43.04 driver package, I saw little difference in the KENS (105 @ 723000) signal. The next day, I installed the 1.2.06 firmware and 12_12_26_1250 package and noticed something interesting. My signal levels shifted dramatically, ranging +14.4 - +18.3 dBmV in the early morning hours and +8.9 - +13.4 late this afternoon. In all this, I changed nothing in my cabling. The KENS problem, although not gone, has been reduced quite a bit, but remains at a level I consider annoying. Also, I have seen little single-line screen disruption on other channels.

One side effect I have seen is the occasional subscription required screen changing to some copy-once SDV channels that I had rarely seen before. I am guessing that my high signal levels may be contributing to that, but also believe it may be TWC since this is all occurring at my one-month billing service cycle which coincided with the CC addition.

I have on hand but yet to introduce an 860MhZ low-pass filter directly in front of the Ceton input, but plan to this weekend. It will be interesting to see how TWC responds to your request.

[xnappo]

I also saw a change in the reported signal levels with the firmware upgrade.

This is all very interesting.

I will say I have tried both a tilt compensator and low pass filter and it made no difference.

xnappo

[magno101]

I also saw a change in the reported signal levels with the firmware upgrade.

This is all very interesting.

I will say I have tried both a tilt compensator and low pass filter and it made no difference.

xnappo

TimeWarner came out and looked a the signal levels again. They said all was good. I'm starting to not trust what they say.

Before the technician came out, I talked to the CableCard Help Desk again and they told me that the FDC should be between -7 and 7 and that the RDC should be between 35 and 55 (somewhere in the middle being preferred). I mentioned this to the technician who looked at me like I was speaking a different language and then proceeded to tell me that this should not be an issue. Prior to him coming in and working on the problem, my FDC was -7 and my RDC was at 36, now that he's gone my levels are -9 / 39 respectively. To me, this seems worse, but what do I know I suppose. He also left me with a low-pass filter which didn't help the situation any.

He phoned another of his buddies and they thought that the problem might be associated with the tuning adapter. He left saying that he'd have to reschedule as he didn't have one on him. I went ahead and plugged the cable line directly into the Ceton and disconnected the Tuning adapter all-together. The signal on 105 still came in as it should, but with the same error present.

Here is a link to the report spit out by the AllCetonSignals script that was mentioned earlier. http://c4b031ded014a6921264-f3508763e6e ... ignals.txt

The SNR on Frequency 72300 (the channels where I'm seeing the problems) seems to be at a worrisome level. Maybe this data means more to you than it does to me. Your help is much appreciated.

[TeddyR]

@magno101

It really does sound like something is interfereing with the signal.. The question is where... I know it may be hard to try, but test at the entry point to see if you still get the interference. A bad splitter could cause issues (esp with an LTE tower being so close)... Also make sure that any unused "ports" from splitters/amps are capped/terminated since that could also allow for OTA and LTE signals to interfere with the line. That frequency is right at where channel 56 RF OTA should be at.

[magno101]

@magno101

It really does sound like something is interfereing with the signal.. The question is where... I know it may be hard to try, but test at the entry point to see if you still get the interference. A bad splitter could cause issues (esp with an LTE tower being so close)... Also make sure that any unused "ports" from splitters/amps are capped/terminated since that could also allow for OTA and LTE signals to interfere with the line. That frequency is right at where channel 56 RF OTA should be at.

Hey Teddy, thanks for the reply. I too agree that it sounds like something signal related.

A little background on the setup, the line from TWC comes in directly to the wall. It isn't split off anywhere, or split to any other room in the house. It's a direct drop from TWC to my box outside and then extended all the way to this Ceton card. No splitters or anything in between aside from the one splitter that splits the signal to: 1 The Computer, 2 The Cable Modem. So, unless the one splitter that was just replaced today by the TWC Technician is the issue in my setup I'm at a loss as to what else to attempt to eliminate from the setup.

Thanks for the interesting note about the frequency and the OTA channel 56. I'm not sure how I could test or prove that it was causing interference but would love to hear any ideas on the subject.

Edit: I'm actually thinking of trying to hook up my HDHomeRun to my HD Antena and then watching / recording the CBS broadcast station as opposed to expecting my cable connection to work. I feel kinda silly for thinking about it, but I'm at such a loss for a working solution that it's starting to sound like a good way to go.

[JazJon]

I wanted to share my experiences with fixing macroblocking.

After I submitted a ticket, Here's what Ceton said:

"Hi Jon,

Generally speaking, we find that a lot of brands of cable boxes use MoCa and can cause interference on the line if not used with a filter. We've seen similar problems arise from modems as well. If you remove the modem or cable boxes from the lineup, do you continue to have the macroblocking? We generally recommend trying a low-pass or MoCA filter. These will usually clean up the signal and help limit the interference you might receive from other devices on your coax network. We recommend installing the filter right before the infiniTV on the coax line. It is designed to filter out MoCA signals while allowing CATV signals to pass-through without issue.

Here is an example:

http://www.ppc-online.com/broadband/gro ... .php?id=85

If you have any questions please let us know.

Thank You,
Ceton Support"


I took out my cable modem for 48 hours (fed main line directly to my ceton), and I had ZERO pixelation/macroblocking! (luckily I had access to alternative WiFi signal to allow internet access for the 2 day test)

I bought the filter they recommended, installed it right before my Ceton tuner, and BAM, I have no longer have any Macroblocking/Pixelation. (perfect recordings, perfect live tv)
I found a cheap one on eBay for $6. http://r.ebay.com/giAq6E

I'm Happy. So far so good.

P.S. you can also use a TAP instead of a SPLITTER if you want to have a stronger signal sent to the Ceton tuner. A splitter divides the RF signal 50/50 on each output. A tap is more like 25/75. Output the strong side to the Ceton and the weaker side to the cablemodem. (speed is still rock solid)

[magno101]

@JazJon

Thanks for the information.

I have the same low-pass filter now as well, and I now have it installed between the tuning adapter and the ceton. Here's a picture i took of the filter. .

I'm also including a picture of the splitter that was installed

The tuning adapter is plugged into the 6db side, the ceton is plugged into the out from the tuning adapter.

Let me know if there's any more information I can provide that would help in troubleshooting this issue further. TWC is coming out yet again tomorrow at 9PM CST. If any of you can assist me with what I should tell them, or have them do it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[JazJon]

@magno101 The fact the HDHomeRun Prime has the same MacroBlocking problem says a lot. I was going to ask if you had a Ceton internal PCIe or USB tuner. (and what the signal level and temps were) but the HDHomeRun having the same problem kind of eliminates that troubleshooting step. I have Comcast and don't use a tuning adapter. Have you learned or read if anyone else has a problem with the tuning adapter? Maybe you need to add the filter right before the splitter, so BOTH the Ceton/ tuner and tuning adapter is protected from MoCa noise. (as a test) Did you take out your cable modem all together like I did? When I did the Macroblocing went away. You could try a whole new cable modem if you find taking it out worked. Are you on the new Ceton BETA 6832 hardware update that just came out via Ceton Diagnostics?s (and firmware 1.2.2.6) Can you try evenly splitting the tap in the last photo you show, and use that tap outputting the strong side to the Ceton and weak side to the cable modem instead?

[magno101]

@magno101 The fact the HDHomeRun Prime has the same MacroBlocking problem says a lot. I was going to ask if you had a Ceton internal PCIe or USB tuner. (and what the signal level and temps were) but the HDHomeRun having the same problem kind of eliminates that troubleshooting step. I have Comcast and don't use a tuning adapter. Have you learned or read if anyone else has a problem with the tuning adapter? Maybe you need to add the filter right before the splitter, so BOTH the Ceton/ tuner and tuning adapter is protected from MoCa noise. (as a test) Did you take out your cable modem all together like I did? When I did the Macroblocing went away. You could try a whole new cable modem if you find taking it out worked. Are you on the new Ceton BETA 6832 hardaware update that just came out via Ceton Diagnostics?s (and firmware 1.2.2.6) Can you try evenly splitting the tap in the last photo you show, and use that tap outputting the strong side to the Ceton and weak side to the cable modem instead?

@JazJon

I've actually tried the filter at different points in the setup without any difference. I put it before the "IN" on the splitter, I've put it before the "IN" on the TA, I've put it before the "IN" on the ceton without any change. I'm actually just now starting to have trouble with my CableCard maintaining Authorization after a reboot. This is a new development.

To rule out the TA I've taken it out of the mix all together by tuning my WMC to 105, then removing the TA from the setup. The channel remained on my WMC and the issue persisted.

I previously posted my versions in this thread http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 107#p43107. My hardware version is behind the one you've listed, but my firmware version is the same. I've not found a way to update the hardware version (not sure that there is a way).

I did try to remove the Cable Modem from the mix but I didn't get the same results as you, my issue still persists. Which side is the strong side? I've got the ceton in the 6dB side.

[JazJon]

At my old place I had macroblocking and swapping the cablecard for a new one fixed it. How many cablecards have you gone through? (more than one?) The 6dB (right part) of the Tap is the stronger signal. The straight through 2.x dB signal is the weaker one. You should try to use a regular 50/50 splitter as well.

[foxwood]

Maybe you need to add the filter right before the splitter, so BOTH the Ceton/ tuner and tuning adapter is protected from MoCa noise.

The low pass filter doesn't do anything for the tuning adapter. It should be placed immediately before the infiniTV.

If possible, don't use the output from the TA - use a separate cable run for each. (The TA has nothing to do with the actual video signal - it's sole purpose is to communicate with the head end, tell it what station has been requested, and then tell the PC what frequency the headend will use to deliver the station).