Windows 8 no native DVD playback, But Adds Dolby Digital +

[makryger]

in my case, i don't see this as an opportunity to switch platforms... i still love 7MC, and will continue to use it for the forseeable future. I'm moving to a location with Verizon fios, and am looking forward to no copy protection flags!

[makryger]

I really have to wonder how many windows users really use it to playback dvds through windows media player. I know some of you seem to think that this is such a huge deal and that it would send consumers to apple in droves, but I really don't think that is true.

Just as the mce community is rather small, I would bet that those using wmp to play dvds is as small or smaller.

Of course I don't like to see features taken away in a new OS, but since I wasn't using the feature myself, I can't say I'm broken up about it. I'm way more interested in finding out how much the media pack will cost in order to get WMC (which will play dvds). If the royalty costs for the codec support are high enough, then MS may have done this in order to hit very low price points selling to oems, especially tablet manufacturers. I can't blame there, even if I wish there was enough demand for them to more aggressively support this stuff.

I'm on the fence about Win8 in general right now. for my media center needs, I will probably stick with 7 until we see some real improvements to 8MC or Metro apps to replace media center functionality (i.e. if the mediabrowser team embraces Metro and puts out an app, i'll be buying day one to support them). For my general use pcs, I'll likely be upgrading thanks to the improvements to the desktop. Metro could be useful on the desktop if the apps are good, otherwise itll be just a start screen for me. Of course it will be alot better on a tablet.

I don't really use it in media player... but I just wonder what the cost was for them to keep it in... i mean, it DVDs- an old technology that is slowly dying- how is it that expensive to keep it?

EDIT:

From the official license holder website:
DVD-Video Player The greater of:
(i) 4% of the net selling price (up to a maximum of US$8.00 per player) or
(ii) US$4.00 per player;
US$2.00 per player on or after the effective date of the DVD6C License Agreement

.
So basically, it costs $2.00 to keep the dvd player in each copy of windows.

[trooper11]

this is reading the same as the thread on the old tgb, which i religiously avoided after the first few pages. i know technology fans love to pontificate but perhaps you could wait for it to be released in its final format before we all write it off and sart suggesting ridiculous things such as xmbc and the like

Oh it happens alot nowadays. When something isnt clear, then the sky is falling and the worst scenario is the only outcome lol.

Like you said, we should know alot more in a few months. I still think that the savior for Win 8 and especially Metro in terms of media support will be third party apps. The few, dedicated media center devs out there, could potentially do alot as metro apps, offering great full screen experiences. Plus, they would have a marketplace to make some money off of their work, or offer things for free of course. I'm sure the transition wont be easy or quick, so we may be waiting a while to see them.

I don't really use it in media player... but I just wonder what the cost was for them to keep it in... i mean, it DVDs- an old technology that is slowly dying- how is it that expensive to keep it?

EDIT: not sure how up to date this is , but from wikipedia: "As of 2002 the largest producer of DVD players is China; in 2002 they produced 30 million players, more than 70% of the world output. These producers have to pay US$15–$20 per player in license fees, to the patent holders of the DVD technology (Sony, Philips, Toshiba and Time Warner) as well as for MPEG-2 licenses."

Well if its anywhere near $15-20, then its no surprise MS would love to drop that cost and give them room to drop prices to oems.

[makryger]

@trooper- my source was outdated. It's now $2 to license a dvd player.

I also found that the BD Player license fee is $4.50.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd easily pay Microsoft $50 if they had native playback of dvds and blurays in the next version of media center. That's over 7x profit for them.

[trooper11]

@trooper- my source was outdated. It's now $2 to license a dvd player.

I also found that the BD Player license fee is $4.50.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd easily pay Microsoft $50 if they had native playback of dvds and blurays in the next version of media center. That's over 7x profit for them.

Alright I cant keep up with your edits lol.


That info is a little confusing. so it could be anywhere from $2 to $8?

Well thats certainly less than 15-20, but I guess when you have as many users as MS has, thats still alot money.

I agree, I would also be happy to pay MS for this as a separate app, but then I already have TMT5, so I could just use that instead, or at least use the codecs it provides in order to playback natively within media center as i do now.

[makryger]

That info is a little confusing. so it could be anywhere from $2 to $8?

Well, i'm not quite sure how they would price the dvd component of an entire operating system. But the minimum is $2, and if they said the DVD component of the operating system was $200, then it would be $8 (4%). Frankly, I'd never value it as more than $50, which falls in line with $2.00

Well thats certainly less than 15-20, but I guess when you have as many users as MS has, thats still alot money.

I agree, I would also be happy to pay MS for this as a separate app, but then I already have TMT5, so I could just use that instead, or at least use the codecs it provides in order to playback natively within media center as i do now.

So you use the TMT5 codecs to do native playback in 7MC, separate from the actual TMT5 app? I'm not sure which codec my native player uses... I just figured to use TMT5 codecs, you had to use the TMT5 software.

[trooper11]

That info is a little confusing. so it could be anywhere from $2 to $8?

Well, i'm not quite sure how they would price the dvd component of an entire operating system. But the minimum is $2, and if they said the DVD component of the operating system was $200, then it would be $8 (4%). Frankly, I'd never value it as more than $50, which falls in line with $2.00

Something else that I think we forget is Motorola's recent efforts to sue MS over patent issues related to video codec support. Motorola is wanting a huge sum of money for that support now. that could be another motivator for MS to phase out direct support as much as possible. I can see why its a tough balancing act for them.

So you use the TMT5 codecs to do native playback in 7MC, separate from the actual TMT5 app? I'm not sure which codec my native player uses... I just figured to use TMT5 codecs, you had to use the TMT5 software.

Let me rephrase that, I use other codecs to handle dvd or mpeg2 playback within the wmc player. Bluray disc playback uses TMT5. I rip most of my blurays though, so those playback within the mc player thanks to those codecs (i.e. lav, etc). On the audio side, a codec that TMT5 uses can be used by other players such as the media center player. I started off by using shark007 which wraps all of this up in a neat package to add various codec support to media center.

[nxsfan]

I'm going to load xbmcbuntu and for the record tomorrow I think, anyone care to join me ???

I'm pretty bummed about how this has all worked out but will begin investigating other options soon. What is "for the record"? I've seen there is a MythTV client for windows - has anyone tried this out?

Why would you want to run MythTV on Windows when Linux is free?

I do most of my gaming on my HTPC (+360 controller), I won't give up that functionality so I'm tied to windows on 1 HTPC.

[milli260876]

Why would you want to run MythTV on Windows when Linux is free?[/quote]

I do most of my gaming on my HTPC (+360 controller), I won't give up that functionality so I'm tied to windows on 1 HTPC.[/quote]



Why not dual boot?generally running xbmc.. Reboot for gaming on w7.

[trooper11]

having to shut down and reboot just to game seems like it would get annoying, especially if you game regularly.

[Tracer]

From everything I'm reading and seeing what is happening, IMO Microsoft is making Windows 8 strictly a tablet OS where there is no need for DVD playback and other features you would expect on a desktop OS.

[cjmccarthy72]

I really have to wonder how many windows users really use it to playback dvds through windows media player. I know some of you seem to think that this is such a huge deal and that it would send consumers to apple in droves, but I really don't think that is true.

Just as the mce community is rather small, I would bet that those using wmp to play dvds is as small or smaller.

I will keep it short as I can as I know I am sounding like a stuck record but you must think outside of the rarefied environment of WMC enthusiasts that we here inhabit. I am a teacher at a school with 850 students and teachers- I know very, very few there who even know what WMC is, but everyone of us uses WMP on the 300 PCs we have for media every day: music on CDs, spoken audio from digital files, etc and YES DVDs- our library has a great selection. At my request we do have VLC installed but if it ever becomes default by accident, I have literally had fellow teachers come running into my class to save the situation. We may laugh at this but this, but dropping DVD support for WMP (+ the loss of the start button) is about to cause MS a lot of annoyed average customers.

As for Windows 8 MCE I am keeping an open mind to see if anything new is offered with it for the price. I am trying to be an optimist- honest!

[adam1991]

this is reading the same as the thread on the old tgb, which i religiously avoided after the first few pages. i know technology fans love to pontificate but perhaps you could wait for it to be released in its final format before we all write it off and sart suggesting ridiculous things such as xmbc and the like

+1

+googolplex

[adam1991]

I'm on the fence about Win8 in general right now.

that's like being on the fence about unicorns and fairy dust.

Win8 doesn't exist, you can't buy it. They may or may not actually be working on it, but until it's released and for sale, you can't make any judgments about it.

[cjmccarthy72]

Slightly mystified by your position adam- Steven Sinofsky on an earlier Building Windows blog assured WMC community that he was including it in Win8 and he recognised how vocal(!) we were- perhaps a linkage? So instead, let us not say a word and instead be grateful for what we get at the end of the process? Customer input is surely allowed.

[adam1991]

You don't work with a sales organization, do you.

You know the old joke about how you can tell a salesman is lying? His lips are moving.

That joke didn't come about out of thin air.

People can and will say anything that serves their immediate needs. With Windows, with Microsoft, we're talking a huge organization with its own needs that have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone on this web site.

Just like bobbob said, too many here are up in arms about something that has not yet been released in its final format. So what if people say "oh, it will be like X and Y when it's finally released many months from now"? You can't predict the future, and you can't make decisions based on a totally uncertain future.

Win8 is not a product, and no "reassurances" from anyone anywhere are worth the weight of the electrons used to spread those "reassurances".

I'm not saying "don't be grateful for what we do get". I'm saying, "make no judgment or decisions whatsoever on a product that's not yet been released based on what some people say".

And in fact, of all the blogs and whatnot that get quoted or linked to here, not one of them has been clear on what it means. It's no more than a couple of minutes before anyone with a lick of sense can tear said blog apart and ask specific questions that said blog clearly dances around.

And when you see that kind of dancing, know you're being sold to.

We want facts, and it's clear that the only facts we get will be examining the product the day it's released. Until then, absolutely everything is conjecture and/or subject to change, multiple times.

[trooper11]

I really have to wonder how many windows users really use it to playback dvds through windows media player. I know some of you seem to think that this is such a huge deal and that it would send consumers to apple in droves, but I really don't think that is true.

Just as the mce community is rather small, I would bet that those using wmp to play dvds is as small or smaller.

I will keep it short as I can as I know I am sounding like a stuck record but you must think outside of the rarefied environment of WMC enthusiasts that we here inhabit. I am a teacher at a school with 850 students and teachers- I know very, very few there who even know what WMC is, but everyone of us uses WMP on the 300 PCs we have for media every day: music on CDs, spoken audio from digital files, etc and YES DVDs- our library has a great selection. At my request we do have VLC installed but if it ever becomes default by accident, I have literally had fellow teachers come running into my class to save the situation. We may laugh at this but this, but dropping DVD support for WMP (+ the loss of the start button) is about to cause MS a lot of annoyed average customers.

Well that certainly is a scenario where I could see the loss as hurting, there is no easy solution there.

Regarding the loss of the start menu, this transition wont be easy, regardless of how good or bad the change is. I really don't know if it will work, but I think that regardless, it will require people to get use to something new. We will see if people are willing to try.

Win 8 has the potential to offer a solution to your problem through Metro. If app support is strong, then you can expect apps to fill the roles you need (including something to play back dvds). If you happen to have an IT dept at the school, then they could explore the option of creating a Win 8 setup that already had the appropriate apps installed in Metro and pushing that to all the school pcs. Each teacher could have a Microsoft account that would allow them to save their files and setup in the cloud, meaning that they could access that same profile and files from any Win 8 pc just by logging in (that way, they could access a profile from home to do work). Or lets say its a library setup or, in general, computers that the school wants control over what is accessible. Then the school can have 'school accounts' that only allow access to the things they want students to have access to through Metro (i.e. web access, and all sorts of education related apps).

Of course if your school started to get interested in using tablets or anything touch, there is obvious potential there as well. Either way, Win 8 could offer new ways of using your pcs at school, even if that means using third party apps.

There is still alot of unknowns, but it seems to me that there is potential there. I can think of alot of cool things you could do app wise with Metro for a school setting.

[trooper11]

I'm on the fence about Win8 in general right now.

that's like being on the fence about unicorns and fairy dust.

Win8 doesn't exist, you can't buy it. They may or may not actually be working on it, but until it's released and for sale, you can't make any judgments about it.

That's why I'm on the fence. I cant exactly decide without knowing how the final build shapes up.

Now the next beta coming in June should help that some since it should be showing off something much closer to final.

[cjmccarthy72]

Adam: maybe, apart from the point this thread is based upon a factual blog release from MS and consists of our reactions to it.
trooper: I agree, lots of potential, but I will still lock my classroom to the teachers who will interrupt my lessons just to get a DVD to play

[mark1234]

I'm on the fence about Win8 in general right now.

that's like being on the fence about unicorns and fairy dust.

Win8 doesn't exist, you can't buy it. They may or may not actually be working on it, but until it's released and for sale, you can't make any judgments about it.

I appreciate you're a glass-half-full kind of guy, but I think there is sufficient information about Windows 8, and about Media Centre in Windows 8, to make judgements and have opinions. I'm not talking about comments from random blogsters, but posts from the vendor themselves. I don't for a second think they are telling us everything, but I'm equally certain they aren't out and out lying.

Having reread the most recent article I'm sure now that they do say that 8MC will be just 7MC, and hopefully this will satisfy those concerned over CableCard tuners and so on. In the opening piece Sinofsky says:

we will make sure Windows 8 fully supports the capabilities of Media Center as it is in Windows 7

So 8MC will be "as it is" in 7MC. How much clearer can MS be?