Guide failure to update after a few months of flawless performance

[Space]

Looks like he had some recordings in progress. Those were 1h49m times for the import which includes delays.

Yeah, I think I misread the increased times as minutes not hours.

[IT Troll]

Anyway, one day maybe I'll try it. SSDs are a bit too new to get a good idea of how reliable they are.

A bit too new? I’ve run my main system from SSD for the past 11 years!
My main system now has 4 SSDs, and all the other servers, laptops, etc in the house have SSDs. We have hundreds of SSDs at work. I don’t recall a single one failing.

I wouldn’t let your one bad experience sway you. An SSD is the most transformative upgrade you can make to a machine. Of course, any drive is only as good as the backup system you have in place.

[StinkyImp]

Ah, anecdata.

No matter how many times you say "mine's never failed," a single "mine did" instance is all it takes to put some teeth behind "update at your own risk".

Hi Adam!

While the information I provide may be anecdotal, it's based on over three years of daily usage and frequent updates. While you provide your experience as pessimistic, I'm trying to use my experience as more optimistic.

You recommend caution and I understand that. I just don't think anyone should be reluctant to update and want to provide a more positive experience.

Frequent updates from version 1.0.0 through 1.3.6.20 also puts some teeth behind "Update at your own risk with extreme confidence!". I think there's probably more teeth to that than a single update failure.

[adam1991]

well, "warning--it can fail" is a better and more realistic message than "absolutely, works perfectly every time! Don't hesitate--even if you have zero need to update, you should update!"

Remember, this board is filled with people who couldn't install a good working version without much (self-induced) hassle and drama.

[IT Troll]

I've been running EPG123 since 2016 (v0.9.9 I think) and keep pretty current with the latest release. In all that time I have had two problems, both caused by regional language differences which slipped through testing. In both cases Gary fixed the issue within a day.

On balance I would say it is best to keep current as there can be unexpected issues when making large upgrade jumps in versions. If you are cautious, wait or week or two after the release of a new version, any issues have normally been found and fixed by then.

[StinkyImp]

well, "warning--it can fail" is a better and more realistic message than "absolutely, works perfectly every time! Don't hesitate--even if you have zero need to update, you should update!"

Remember, this board is filled with people who couldn't install a good working version without much (self-induced) hassle and drama.

Hi again Adam!

Thank you for your response!

It's always good to have a spirited conversation on opposing views. Over time whenever I see you make a post, I make it a point to read what you have to say. In the overwhelming majority of those posts I enjoy your viewpoint and in most cases, I wholeheartedly agree! In this instance I have to respectfully disagree.

The phrase "warning--it can fail" can be applied to every single thing in this world. This "blanket" statement, if applied to every new or improved technology, would bring the world and its advancements to a screeching halt. That's not a world I want to live in.

IT Troll appears to have been running EPG123 longer than I have and his extensive experience seems to coincide with mine. You seem to have misinterpreted my response when you say... "absolutely, works perfectly every time! Don't hesitate--even if you have zero need to update, you should update!" as that's not what I said at all. It's disingenuous for you to attribute that to my response.

If you look back you'll see that I stated, "It's been "very rare" for an update to be released with an issue. Even so, Gary provides a fix in superhuman time..." which is based on two immutable truths demonstrated by Gary over the years.

1. There has never been any attempt to publish an update with the intent to "bork" a user's system. If an update accidentally affects a user's system, Gary works overtime to fix any issues and improve his program.
2. Gary provides updates that fine-tune the program and also adds efficiencies and user requested enhancements. The updates actually improve the user experience and aren't just for fluff.

If you don't feel comfortable updating your system, then by all means don't. But with all due respect, please know that if you post a doom and gloom "updating is dangerous" message (which is your right), I'll be right here to refute it (if we survive COVID-19).

[adam1991]

On balance I would say it is best to keep current as there can be unexpected issues when making large upgrade jumps in versions.

If you're on the upgrade train for software that continuously adds features--I'm thinking Adobe Creative Cloud here, which not only adds features but also provides compatibility with newer operating systems on a regular basis--I absolutely agree.

But we're not talking about that. My question is, if the software does for you what it's intended to do--and there are no feature enhancements or requirements to work with a new OS--then why bother updating?

[adam1991]

please know that if you post a doom and gloom "updating is dangerous" message (which is your right), I'll be right here to refute it (if we survive COVID-19).

No doom and gloom; just a reality check.

But please, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why to update given that:

a) WMC is fixed and will never be updated or changed, and
b) Schedules Direct data format is fixed

If what you have work--and in this case "works" means "grabs data from SD, formats it for WMC, and inserts into WMC"--what does upgrading to a newer version do for you? It doesn't provide compatibility with newer software; our WMC software never changes. It doesn't provide better compatibility with Schedules Direct; their data format is their data format.

It's like an old car. It works the same on day 3580 as it did on day 1. You don't pester the dealership weekly for software updates (which, by and large, don't happen anyway).

[StinkyImp]

If what you have work--and in this case "works" means "grabs data from SD, formats it for WMC, and inserts into WMC"--what does upgrading to a newer version do for you? It doesn't provide compatibility with newer software; our WMC software never changes. It doesn't provide better compatibility with Schedules Direct; their data format is their data format.

I am in 100% total agreement with this. If you don't want to update, feel free not to update. By the same token, there are those that DO want to stay up to date to take advantage of Gary's fixes and improvements.

Please be courteous and try not to discourage those that do...

[garyan2]

I think we are all in violent agreement that it is up to the user to decide whether or not to upgrade. No one is required to justify why they did or did not upgrade to the latest version to anyone. What we should be encouraging is for the user, when noticing there is an update available, to review the release history to determine for themselves whether an upgrade would be needed, desired, or can simply be ignored.

[Space]

...
But please, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why to update given that:

a) WMC is fixed and will never be updated or changed, and
b) Schedules Direct data format is fixed

If what you have work--and in this case "works" means "grabs data from SD, formats it for WMC, and inserts into WMC"--what does upgrading to a newer version do for you? It doesn't provide compatibility with newer software; our WMC software never changes. It doesn't provide better compatibility with Schedules Direct; their data format is their data format.
...

WMC is fixed, yes, it will not change. However, the format of the Schedules Direct feed CAN certainly change, and has changed within the last year or so (I believe it was related to the TV ratings for different countries).

Also, EPG123 isn't just taking the SD data and importing it in to WMC. It is massaging that data to add new features, features that even the original WMC with the original Gracenote data feed did not have. For instance; the "Premieres" category that allows you to list all Season and Series premieres or the feature that allows you to make episodes of a show that was first run in another country appear to be "New" even though the OAD would otherwise not indicate to WMC that they are new.

The latest EPG123 versions (as described in this thread) greatly increased the performance of updates (particularly for those using mechanical hard drives (HD)). For me it went from taking over 30 minutes to do an update and import to taking under 5 minutes. Plus the disk activity is greatly reduced, which can help extend the life of the HD.

I believe that even though SSD users may not see much of a speed increase with the new version, it will probably extend the useful life of your SSD, since writing many small files and more data results in more cells being written to, and therefore uses up more of the limited number of writes that a SSD has (yes, SSDs have a built-in limited life span based on writes/erases, check out the SMART data to see how many your SSD has before it will die). The latest versions already reduce the cache size, but if Gary implements the compression he is talking about, it will result in an even smaller cache file size and therefore require even less writes.

There are also fixes for bugs that have caused EPG123 to crash in the past. This may not be affecting you now, but eventually it may.

Can updates cause problems? Yes. That is why you don't necessarily want to update right away when a new version comes out. Wait a bit to see if anyone reports any problems. But if there are none, then go ahead and update. You can always go back to the old version if the new one does not suit you or causes problems.

[adam1991]

If what you have work--and in this case "works" means "grabs data from SD, formats it for WMC, and inserts into WMC"--what does upgrading to a newer version do for you? It doesn't provide compatibility with newer software; our WMC software never changes. It doesn't provide better compatibility with Schedules Direct; their data format is their data format.

I am in 100% total agreement with this. If you don't want to update, feel free not to update. By the same token, there are those that DO want to stay up to date to take advantage of Gary's fixes and improvements.

Please be courteous and try not to discourage those that do...

?????

Apparently facts are anathema here?

I've asked, and have not gotten a straight answer, so I'll ask it again: WHAT "fixes and improvements" can one "take advantage of"? Does it work better with SD? Does it do a better job handing the guide results to WMC, such that my WMC experience is improved?

I know that it's not a matter of newer versions keeping up with WMC and Windows as they update--because they DON'T update.

I don't know that I have the power to discourage anyone from doing anything. If it's facts you're afraid of, though, you're on your own. Fact: a bad version can come about, and has. Previously, it didn't do any harm other than to make Gary spend time fixing it and to make me find my old installer and reinstall. But consider: maybe an update could bork the whole thing? I don't think it's likely, given how simple this whole thing is to the end user, but anything's possible.

I live and work in a high tech world. The phrase "upgraded it right into the ground" is common for a reason.

[IT Troll]

I live and work in a high tech world. The phrase "upgraded it right into the ground" is common for a reason.

I have literally never heard that phrase before. Out of interest, I Googled "upgraded it right into the ground" and got one hit - a Googlewhack!

Apparently you don’t like phone upgrades either.
https://www.howardforums.com/content.ph ... ew_comment

[StinkyImp]

I am in 100% total agreement with this. If you don't want to update, feel free not to update.

I've asked, and have not gotten a straight answer, so I'll ask it again: WHAT "fixes and improvements" can one "take advantage of"? Does it work better with SD? Does it do a better job handing the guide results to WMC, such that my WMC experience is improved?

I live and work in a high tech world. The phrase "upgraded it right into the ground" is common for a reason.

I'm not sure what else anyone can say except...

Adam... With all due respect I hereby cede to your superior knowledge and accept your technological superiority over me. Everything you say is the absolute truth (without exception) and I apologize for any offense at countering anything you say. You are 100% correct and I am completely and utterly wrong.

I do think it's unfair to accuse Gary of upgrading EPG123 "right into the ground". You previously mentioned that you understood how hard he works and the amount of time and effort he puts into it. But I digress. You're correct once again and evidently Gary should stop updating since you've now deemed it unnecessary. Once again I bow to your supremacy.

I hope this can put your ego (and this conversation) to rest knowing that you've beaten me into submission and you have proven your point.

Now... for everyone else (except Adam because he's right ). Take it from hundreds, if not thousands, of people that have upgraded for years without any major issues, please feel confident in updating your version of EPG123 to take advantage of the system efficiencies and enhancements that Gary has worked so hard to provide.

PS - I know you'll probably respond to this but I'm done. You win!

[stuartm]

I think you guys have beaten the off topic discussion in this thread to death. If I were a moderator, I would lock the thread at this point. I think people can make up their own minds about whether or not to upgrade based on their own needs and any further rehashing of it here would be pointless. Why don't we all just take a step back and let this thread die a peaceful death.

[Scallica]

I think you guys have beaten the off topic discussion in this thread to death. If I were a moderator, I would lock the thread at this point. I think people can make up their own minds about whether or not to upgrade based on their own needs and any further rehashing of it here would be pointless. Why don't we all just take a step back and let this thread die a peaceful death.

I agree.