WMC on Windows 10: Protected channels go to No-Signal

Discussion of getting WMC to work on Windows 10 (unsupported)
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DavidinCT

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WMC on Windows 10: Protected channels go to No-Signal

#1

Post by DavidinCT » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:56 pm

Hey all

I put this into the Windows 8 area because we are using the files ripped from Windows 8.1 (v 6.3.9600.16384) on Windows 10. I figured I would post here as I have gone over my resources and hitting a brick wall here, figured if I get a few of the fellow members here, maybe we can result in a fix here or a work-a-round. The end goal here is for Protected channels to work for everyone on Windows 10, if this works, then I can move the rest of my computers (besides my HTPC) to Windows 10.

Over on MDL where they are doing this, the people who are heading up hacking the files and getting it running, live on the other side of the "pond" so DRM or protected content like in Cablecards, they do not deal with, so it's hard to get them involved. So I trying to pull some facts together here so see if we can get everything working like it should. I am doing this also so everyone who is interested in this, knows where Cablecard support stands too.

So, on Windows 10, I have v6 of the installer in (WindowsMediaCenter_6.3.9600.16384_x64_v6) by default, if you install this on a clean system, it will get a "Display error" due to it seems a codec issue(codec is not working or not installed). So to get the "Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder" (the KEY thing that is needed to play back protected content), I am using the Windows 10 DVD player, that installs this codec. If we use LAV filers, of course you will get a Protected content error when you tune to any channel or attempt to play back any DRM content.

On my Windows 7 Machine, I have a Ceton Infinty 6 PCIe, using a method I found on this site to share the tumers, this works great. Bridge the tuners on my WMC, with some older drivers installed first and she all works good. I am able to access and use tuners on my Windows 10 machine, No problems at all on Non-DRM channels and everything in HD looks PERFECT.

Now the issue, Protected content seems to play back BUT, it's un usable. When I go to a protected channel, it will play back sometimes for 2 other times for 30 seconds, it will break up and go to no signal. No protected content error, so it appears to be working with a hitch. If I try to go to a subed NON-DRM channel, channel changes are quick and no problems playing video or anything of the such, If I got a channel that I am NOT subbed to, I get the message "Subscription Required" so it appears it is working as it should on this aspect.

I have tried a few things here, including installing this build on a NON-WMC Windows 8.1 machine (I have a tablet that was never upgraded) and this gives me a "display error" due to no codec. On my W10 machine, I have removed codecs, I have nuked back to scratch and tried again, different builds. etc. With no change.

So Here is some questions on want to hit against other experts here.

1. If we are just missing the correct version of the "Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder" (something I am leaning toward), it's not installed with the installer that is made (due to the "Display issue "when installed in a clean system), anyone know the correct name of the package on 8.1 that it's included in ? Something that could be made into the installer

2. This issue (going to no signal on protected content) rings a bell with me but, cant remember where I saw this, if there is a fix or work-around for it, anyone know ?

3. Does ANYONE know how to EXPORT the Codec from a 8.1 machine and MANUALLY re-install on another it on a X64 machine(with the security on Drivers/codecs on a x64 machine) ?

4. As looking for other WMC experts here to take a look over this as something that a few people can put some thoughts in, maybe it's something I have not thought of yet and wanted to see where we can go from here.

Anyone have any ideas so we can get to this final goal ?
-Dave
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#2

Post by ajhieb » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:49 pm

DavidinCT wrote:1. If we are just missing the correct version of the "Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder" (something I am leaning toward), it's not installed with the installer that is made (due to the "Display issue "when installed in a clean system), anyone know the correct name of the package on 8.1 that it's included in ? Something that could be made into the installer
Why are you leaning towards a codec issue? If the protected content plays, even for 2 seconds, that would indicate that the codec is working properly. If the codec was broken, not installed properly, or the wrong version, DRM content shouldn't play at all. Ever.

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#3

Post by DavidinCT » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:16 pm

ajhieb wrote:
DavidinCT wrote:1. If we are just missing the correct version of the "Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder" (something I am leaning toward), it's not installed with the installer that is made (due to the "Display issue "when installed in a clean system), anyone know the correct name of the package on 8.1 that it's included in ? Something that could be made into the installer
Why are you leaning towards a codec issue? If the protected content plays, even for 2 seconds, that would indicate that the codec is working properly. If the codec was broken, not installed properly, or the wrong version, DRM content shouldn't play at all. Ever.
One would think... but, if there is a different version of the codec, it might give the auth to play but, it could cause other issues as WMC could be expecting a certain version of it.

If signal is perfectly fine on every other channel for example I have been playing Discovery channel for about 2 hours today it was flawless and I go to a protected channel and I get No Signal, what else would it lead you to ? Maybe it is giving the Protected content issue but, just with No signal. Any thoughts on what else could be going on ?

Even when we were not using the correct codec, it would play video for about a split second with audio or so and then go to "protected content". This is what is partly leading towards this.

Looking for some ideas here...
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#4

Post by ajhieb » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:54 pm

When it comes to DRM you're tinkering with a system that's pretty much been designed from the ground up not to be tinkered with.

The "original" error that was being reported back when the WMC version of the codec was being used was likely the most accurate. The system is detecting that files have been modified and it's shutting down playback. Switching to a non-WMC (DVD) codec might change the error message presented but you're getting the same results. The video plays for a moment until the DRM system recognizes that the protected path might be compromised and it shuts down playback.

The behavior now is pretty much the same, it's just that instead of a WMC-specific error message you're getting a more generic message. Getting a different message (especially with the same behavior) isn't necessarily progress.

If the DRM system is indeed checking file integrity, the only way I can think of to circumvent that is to modify the file that is actually doing the check to skip that step. But in all likelihood that file is probably going to do the same authentication on itself so that still might not work.

Even though you're not attempting to circumvent DRM, the WMC10 hack is utilizing some of the same techniques that would be considered attack vectors. Considering how strict CableLabs certification is, I think it's reasonable to assume that any approved DRM schemes are going to be tamper-proof on the file level to a reasonable extent, which precludes using the hacked files to display protected content.

tl;dr You're probably going to need to get pretty handy with assembly language and a hex editor.

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#5

Post by The Mac » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:24 pm

You have not indicated wether a pre-recorded file will playback, only live tv.

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#6

Post by 3rob3 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:25 pm

I played with the Win10 WMC builds, and here is my (uneducated) guess. The Win10 WMC installer is not installing/registering the correct mpeg2 decoder properly, which is obviously a critical part of DRM playback. The reason I say this is after adding WMC on a fresh install of Win10, you cannot play ANY TV (DRM or not). You can run the "decoder checkup utility" or whatever it's called and it will see the Microsoft decoder and let you select it but TV will still not play. You need to either install the DVD add-on, Sharks codec, or LAV. So somehow the DRM approved mpeg2 decoder is not working.

Again, pretty uneducated but that is my feeling.

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#7

Post by The Mac » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:27 pm

if you install the DVD-player, its does.

My guess is a disconnect between playready and the codec.

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#8

Post by 3rob3 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:03 pm

It does what? Not play protected content? Installing the DVD player obviously installs an mpeg2 decoder, just apparently not one compatible with the required DRM.

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#9

Post by DavidinCT » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:25 pm

OK, so my DRM'ed channel (AMC is DRM protected on MOST movies), Is NOT DRM'ed on the current movie that is on. So the channel plays back 100% fine on Windows 10. I went on the primary WMC machine and recorded a 10 min part of the movie and checked it, not DRMED. So, it is a Copy Protection/Codec issue that is giving us this issue, as said above, it's just a different way of showing it.
The Mac wrote:You have not indicated wether a pre-recorded file will playback, only live tv.

Riddle me this how can I play a pre-recorded show, if any show I attempt to record will error out after 30 seconds because of no signal ?
3rob3 wrote:I played with the Win10 WMC builds, and here is my (uneducated) guess. The Win10 WMC installer is not installing/registering the correct mpeg2 decoder properly, which is obviously a critical part of DRM playback. The reason I say this is after adding WMC on a fresh install of Win10, you cannot play ANY TV (DRM or not). You can run the "decoder checkup utility" or whatever it's called and it will see the Microsoft decoder and let you select it but TV will still not play. You need to either install the DVD add-on, Sharks codec, or LAV. So somehow the DRM approved mpeg2 decoder is not working.

Again, pretty uneducated but that is my feeling.

Yea, If you use DVD addon, Sharks or LAV (that sharks uses anyway), it will give a "Protected content" issue, the DVD addon is the only one that gives this, no signal issue. This could also be the problem. They are pulling the packages from Windows 8.1 w/WMC to install on WIndows 10 with a few Patched files that does the kernel check, that is in a nut shell how they are running it. It's possible they are missing something, a driver, a registry setting, or some other part. This is what I created this tread to see if anyone has a good idea on where we can go with this.

I ran the "decoder checkup utility" on Windows 10 and it shows "Microsoft DTV-DVD video Decoder" File: msmpeg2vdec.dll and Version: 12.0.10133

I'll check on my 8.1 machine (with WMC) and see what version it comes with. If this is different, this could be a direct reason for this.
The Mac wrote:if you install the DVD-player, its does.

My guess is a disconnect between playready and the codec.
Exactly, this is the WHOLE point of putting this thread up, so we can figure out EXACTLY where that disconnect is.
ajhieb wrote:When it comes to DRM you're tinkering with a system that's pretty much been designed from the ground up not to be tinkered with.
Agreed, In Theory, if file for file is copied over (pulled from the official from the ISO), with the correct DRM and Codec version, it should pass DRM. This is what we are hoping to achieve here.

If you get DRM running on this Windows 10 machine, and that file that is recorded is locked to that machine (just like if recorded on 7 or 8) and all the same rules apply, is that ACTUALLY breaking DRM ? Your not breaking it, your just moving the whole system over to a new machine.

Not sure in any way that would be breaking what Cablelabs set or the DRM setup for protected cablecard recordings.

Any other thoughts, or WMC subsystem ideas here ?
-Dave
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Windows Media Center certified and WMC MVP 2010 - 2012

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#10

Post by The Mac » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:46 pm

Live TV and recordings use different graphs.

I can frequently recording things that screw up if a try to watch them live with win7

what happens if you try to record a DRMed show?

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#11

Post by Klownicle » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:48 pm

The Mac wrote:You have not indicated wether a pre-recorded file will playback, only live tv.
Pre-recorded does not play back either.
3rob3 wrote:It does what? Not play protected content? Installing the DVD player obviously installs an mpeg2 decoder, just apparently not one compatible with the required DRM.
Correct, the Windows DVD Player on a clean Windows 10 installation with WMC added will play any MPEG2 content. The Windows DVD Player installation then lets the content play. You get System Files Modified that are required for playback message on CopyOnce not CopyFree. If you install the LAV codecs, you get a "Copy Prohibited" message instead on CopyOnce not CopyFree.
The Mac wrote:Live TV and recordings use different graphs.

I can frequently recording things that screw up if a try to watch them live with win7

what happens if you try to record a DRMed show?
Live TV on a CopyOnce channel records, but when you try and play it back it says you don't have the rights blah blah.

I attempted to take the codec files from Windows 8.1 (copy/paste/change rights) for MPEG2 after the Windows DVD Player was installed and got a "Missing, or Invalid Installed... etc" message that you'd get if you had no codec. Just a shot in the dark I know.

I THINK, the system files modified message is just the DRM technology seeing that the MPEG2 codec is not proper. I say this because if this was related to the WMC files being modified (ehshell.exe etc), to me that would mean the recorded drm content would play outside of WMC. IE; in WMP.

We need to figure out all files involved in the chain of playback of the wtv file. Even one file could cause our issues with DRM not working.

Files that I've found;
msmpeg2adec.dll
MSMPEG2ENC.dll
msmpeg2vdec.dll
Mpeg2Data.ax
MSVidCtl.dll
psisdecd.dll
psisrndr.ax

All of which were accessed during the playback of the DRM channel, this was captured with Process Monitor. I could have missed one but that's what I saw so far and what I attempted to copy from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10.

Its possible that PlayReady does not recognize the Operating System thus refuses to operate, as Windows 10 has PlayReady 3.0 integrated. I think we can mostly take WMC out of the mix, and just try and play records done by WMC in WMP. Unless there's someone here to say that recordings by WMC could indeed still be bad and not play anything. The time strings are the correct length.
Last edited by Klownicle on Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#12

Post by The Mac » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:08 pm

dont forget, you cant just copy the files.

They need to be registered (regsvr) with the OS to make them available

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#13

Post by Klownicle » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:11 pm

The Mac wrote:dont forget, you cant just copy the files.

They need to be registered (regsvr) with the OS to make them available
Yeah, I did that as well. Which didn't work, still presented a codec not found type error as if it was a clean installation. What I find interesting, is the MPEG2 codecs are in Windows 10, the files exist on a clean install. But its not until you install the Windows DVD Player do they become active so to speak? I haven't looked to see what is installed with Windows DVD Player yet..

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#14

Post by The Mac » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:19 pm

did you unregister the prior ones?

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#15

Post by DavidinCT » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:22 pm

Klownicle wrote:But its not until you install the Windows DVD Player do they become active so to speak? ..
Maybe it's just a activation thing? I know there was a question about the msmpeg2adec.dll (official Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder) when you install Windows 8.1, it cant play back DVDs even though msmpeg2adec.dll is on the system but when you install Windows Media Center you are able to although file versions don't change.

Maybe this feature set of the msmpeg2adec.dll even with the W10 DVD player, is just not "activated ?
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#16

Post by 3rob3 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:25 pm

Klownicle wrote:What I find interesting, is the MPEG2 codecs are in Windows 10, the files exist on a clean install. But its not until you install the Windows DVD Player do they become active so to speak?
I noticed that too, and think it is a good clue.

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#17

Post by DavidinCT » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:31 pm

OK, msmpeg2vdec.dll and Versions

Windows 10 DVD player v. 12.0.10133

Windows 8.1 w/WMC 12.0.9600.17374 (my local install)

But, if your Using WMC installer V6, your running version WindowsMediaCenter_6.3.9600.16384_x64_v6, as in 9600.16384 , this would be the version of the msmpeg2vdec.dll to install and confirm that it's not a codec based issue.

So, I looked through the installer (all the files are in folders on the newer versions, this is version WindowsMediaCenter_6.3.9600.16384_x64_v6).

The msmpeg2vdec.dll does not exist on these installers.

Maybe the next step is to ask the guys who are building the installers to INCLUDE msmpeg2vdec.dll on the next builds(and the VERSION they are ripping from).....Thoughts ?

Note:
the file is located in
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\
and
C:\Windows\system32

I am tempted just to reboot my computer to Windows 7, copy the msmpeg2vdec.dll from my activated cablecard version, into WIndows 10 (both locations) to see what it breaks....


Posted,

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/thread ... ost1144684
-Dave
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#18

Post by glugglug » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:22 pm

What is the WM-DRM pairing status reported by the CableCARD tuner? It will be in the main status page in the infiniTV web interface, I'm assuming also there for HD Homerun. Not home right now to grab the URL.

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#19

Post by ajhieb » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:49 pm

DavidinCT wrote:Agreed, In Theory, if file for file is copied over (pulled from the official from the ISO), with the correct DRM and Codec version, it should pass DRM. This is what we are hoping to achieve here.
I think you're being overly optimistic if you think that DRM is just confined to the codec. It is almost certainly checking the entire playback chain, including the player. The player in this case happens to be WMC, and WMC files have been modified in order to make them run on Win10.

If you get DRM running on this Windows 10 machine, and that file that is recorded is locked to that machine (just like if recorded on 7 or 8) and all the same rules apply, is that ACTUALLY breaking DRM ? Your not breaking it, your just moving the whole system over to a new machine.
As stated previously, I recognize that your end goal is not to defeat DRM, but the DRM protection doesn't care what your end goal is. DRM is checking file integrity since modifying files in the playback chain is one of the most obvious attack vectors for defeating DRM. When I go to my parents house and they aren't home, the alarm system doesn't care that I'm not there to rob the place. It doesn't differentiate between friend and foe. It detects intrusion and sets off an alarm. DRM is going to behave the same way.

Not sure in any way that would be breaking what Cablelabs set or the DRM setup for protected cablecard recordings.
It isn't about intent. And it isn't going to circumvent DRM, but that's not the point. You seem to think that if your intentions are pure that the DRM won't care. DRM appears to be checking file integrity of the playback chain and that is failing because files have indeed been modified.

Any other thoughts, or WMC subsystem ideas here ?
Different versions of these files may indeed result in improper playback, but I don't think getting the right codec is going to solve your problem. The "System files have been modified" error message is one you should take seriously. I don't see any way around the DRM issue until you can successfully disable that verification.

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#20

Post by DavidinCT » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:17 am

Ok, Need someone with DRM channels who is running a cablecard using the newest version V.6....

Download the new msmpeg2vdec.dll (the 8.1 version matching the rest of the files).

http://www.datafilehost.com/d/6aa44633

Go into your v6 install directory, and run the TEST installer, When the 2nd command prompt comes up (this will give your permissions to copy files to the system folders).

You want to rename the old one to old... and you want to copy it to the 2 locations

C:\Windows\SysWOW64\
and
C:\Windows\system32

ex if you put this file in C:\temp
ren C:\Windows\syswow64\msmpeg2vdec.dll msmpeg2vdec.dll.old
copy C:\temp\msmpeg2vdec.dll C:\Windows\syswow64

ren C:\Windows\system32\msmpeg2vdec.dll msmpeg2vdec.dll.old
copy C:\temp\msmpeg2vdec.dll C:\Windows\system32

Then in the same command prompt run sfc /scannow

After this is done. Start WMC and test a protected channel, post back with your results...


Done for the night, I just got in Forza 6 for the xbox one, been waiting for it, I will be playing that for the night :)
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