High Demodulation Errors

Ask fellow members about Ceton's infiniTV tuners here.
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kd6icz

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Re: High Demodulation Errors

#21

Post by kd6icz » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:12 pm

Crash2009 wrote: FYI KD6 has developed mb/ps problems recently resulting in a teardown. Any similarity with yours?

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=7&t=8926
When I had the issue with TWC it was on my previous PC. It was for sure a TWC issue. As soon as Ceton contacted TWC the problem disappeared and I got a call from the head DAC technician asking if all was well. I'm surprised Ceton didn't automatically contact TWC...

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#22

Post by kd6icz » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:15 pm

FYI - My ticket was #BEV-322-46256.

ptown02

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#23

Post by ptown02 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:17 pm

I took home spectrum analyzer from work over the weekend and looked at the signals at the input to the InfiniTV. Everything looked fine as far as i could tell. I did not see any spurs poking up in the 6MHz channel. I also looked at other channels to verify it was the same as the 231MHz channel. I also looked at the sub-54MHz spectrum and saw signals jumping around sporadically. I believe this is the uplink for the TA and cable modem. I ordered a high pass filter with a 54MHz pass band frequency to install in front of the InfiniTV. TWC is also scheduled to come out once again. If the high pass filter doesn't work and TWC isn't able to resolve anything this week I'll likely purchase a HDHR Prime and see if it has the same problems.

I'm starting to believe that there is an out of band spur that is mixing into the IF/baseband signal entering the InfiniTV tuner. I asked Ceton for a block diagram showing the IF/LO information so I can put it into my spurious analysis spreadsheet (practicing RF Engineer with MSEE here).

As another point of reference, I installed two TWC digital tuning adapters on other TVs this weekend so we could watch channel 8. The channel comes in crystal clear with zero pixelation. If the signal is "really" as bad as Ceton says it is, why isn't the channel garbled on the DTAs? I'm starting to get a little frustrated with the whole situation. I'm giving it two more weeks before I rip out the HTPC system and switch to AT&T. I've been a WMC user since 2004, it will be a sad day...

Also, if the issue can be resolved by changing the channel up/down and then back to the the 231MHz channels, why isn't the stream resetting itself when the error occurs? What is causing the system to essentially "hang" in this bad state when it's obviously not still being fed a poor quality signal.

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#24

Post by cwinfield » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:29 pm

Which fw/hw version are you using. I highly suggest using the latest beta fw on this site.

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#25

Post by ptown02 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:34 pm

This is the FW that came on the InfiniTV PCIe Ceton RMA'd to me ceton_infinitv_beta_fw_14_10_3_163.IMAGE.

cwinfield

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#26

Post by cwinfield » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:37 pm

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =68&t=8352 try this in post #1.
Run the diag tool if you want to try beta hw version.

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#27

Post by ptown02 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:42 pm

My HW version is 6252, is that the latest?

cwinfield

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#28

Post by cwinfield » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:46 pm

No it isn't. I have a PCIe 4 so latest available for me is 6829. I am using 6408 however because 6829 causes macroblocking for me despite saying "fix video glitching in certain cases" I see that you have a ETH6 so I would just look for the newest beta using the diag tool or ask other users which one they prefer. From what I understand the HW/FW is compatible on PCIe/ETH/USB and that the tuners are the same regardless of interface.

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#29

Post by ptown02 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:03 pm

I have a PCIe, not the ETH. When I tell the diag tool to look for beta HW/FW it says nothing is available...

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#30

Post by cwinfield » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:12 pm

Maybe it is the latest for your device. If you want to downgrade it you have to install the 1.1.8.2 firmware found in Linux drivers on cetons download page.

You may want to contact ceton and ask what the latest version for your device is. Here is a informative link http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 643#p46643

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#31

Post by kd6icz » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:30 pm

ptown02 wrote:My HW version is 6252, is that the latest?
That is the only version of the PCIe 6 that I'm aware of. I've owned two (one from the original batch and one about a year and a half newer - one made in Mexico and one made in China) and both were 6252.

You've done everything right. I run LOTS of filters on my system and the InfiniTV really likes them. I also run a TWO WAY amplifier. This keeps my upstream devices running cool and lowering their sub band output close to my InfiniTV and puts the high output job on the amplifier. My SNR is higher than its ever been using this combination. I installed a MoCA filter on both sides of the amplifier to prevent any unwanted noise from being amplified. Then a sub-band filter on the input of the InfiniTV.

I also run my InfiniTV through the Tuning Adapter rather than straight to the splitter that many suggest here. This reduces the signal to my InfiniTV to just the right levels. All channels fall between -2 to +2dbmV. I'm in a Motorola/Arris market so the TA drops the signal about 6db. I notice if I keep the upstream output of the TA to around +30dbmV the channel changing is much faster and more reliable.

My cable modem (SB6183) signal levels are just within cable company spec. Downstream levels are all under +12dbmV with the lowest at around +8dbmV. Yes, that's on the hot side but just within the "acceptable" range according to the Arris documentation and the cable company. My upstream outputs are all between +35 and +38 dbmV. Again this allows to cable modem to run very cool.

All devices are powered with +12v 5a power adapters I purchased from eBay. All have RF chokes on the DC wire. All cable company equipment uses 5.5mm / 2.5mm connectors. However the InfiniTV has a 5.5mm / 2.1mm connection. So I had to solder a new connection on the power adapter for that one.

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#32

Post by ptown02 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:05 pm

Well, there is officially a twist in the plot! I purchased an HDHR Prime and installed it (took about 15 minutes, including CC activation) over the weekend. The channels that were apparently of "poor signal quality/integrity" worked perfectly. I could record an hour long show without interruption or the "Weak TV Signal" error popping up. Let's get a run down of the possible scenarios now:

1. The TWC feed is fine, the InfiniTV (PCIe) is having issues correctly demodulating certain channels.
2. There is an issue within my computer. This is unlikely since I could watch any other channel not on the 231MHz band without interruption.
3. During the 15 minute period required to install the HD HR Prime, TWC fixed the issue on their end (highly unlikely).

My gut feeling is that #1 is the most likely scenario. Remember, the problem has persisted through two InfiniTV (PCIe) tuners (they sent me an RMA unit and it had the same issue).

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#33

Post by kd6icz » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:03 pm

ptown02 wrote:Well, there is officially a twist in the plot! I purchased an HDHR Prime and installed it (took about 15 minutes, including CC activation) over the weekend. The channels that were apparently of "poor signal quality/integrity" worked perfectly. I could record an hour long show without interruption or the "Weak TV Signal" error popping up. Let's get a run down of the possible scenarios now:

1. The TWC feed is fine, the InfiniTV (PCIe) is having issues correctly demodulating certain channels.
2. There is an issue within my computer. This is unlikely since I could watch any other channel not on the 231MHz band without interruption.
3. During the 15 minute period required to install the HD HR Prime, TWC fixed the issue on their end (highly unlikely).

My gut feeling is that #1 is the most likely scenario. Remember, the problem has persisted through two InfiniTV (PCIe) tuners (they sent me an RMA unit and it had the same issue).
It's not a "problem" with the Ceton tuner. They are just extremely sensitive to sloppy tuned carrier null. I had the same issue when they did the analog sunset in my area. The DAC technician just threw the new QAM modulator into the frame and fired it up. My leased Motorola set top box work just fine while all three of my Ceton's would loose lock after 30 minutes. It just has to do with how much the front end in the receiver can handle before it gives up. I can assure you this is a TWC issue and it just takes the right connection within the technical side of the house to get them to fix it.

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#34

Post by ptown02 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:11 pm

The problem with your assumption is that Ceton will actually call them and tell them. I've had all kinds of people up the management chain come to my house. If it really is a TWC problem, then Ceton should have taken care of this weeks ago. I've been fighting this problem for 2 FULL months. Unacceptable.

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#35

Post by kd6icz » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:33 pm

Well... Yes I would like to think since they went through all this with me a year ago it would be common sense to just repeat the same process. But then again a year ago Ceton was alive and kicking. Now none of us are sure what's going on...

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#36

Post by ptown02 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:12 pm

That being said, anyone want to buy my InfiniTV 6 PCIe for $150 + shipping? It's officially for sale so PM me. If I don't hear anything in a couple of days I'm going to list it on eBay.

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#37

Post by ptown02 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Just a quick update. After removing the InfiniTV 6 PCIe and installing the HDHR Prime, I've had a flawless TV experience. The channels that were locking up due to a diagnosed "poor quality signal" by Ceton are coming in GREAT. I guess TWC infrastructure isn't compatible with the Ceton hardware anymore...

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#38

Post by BrianL » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:58 am

cwinfield wrote:No it isn't. I have a PCIe 4 so latest available for me is 6829. I am using 6408 however because 6829 causes macroblocking for me despite saying "fix video glitching in certain cases" I see that you have a ETH6 so I would just look for the newest beta using the diag tool or ask other users which one they prefer. From what I understand the HW/FW is compatible on PCIe/ETH/USB and that the tuners are the same regardless of interface.
Hi Cwinfield (or others),

Unfortunately I am seeing the same macroblocking issue after updating my Ceton InfiniTV PCIe 4 to hardware version 6829. Ceton support said they do not have older hardware versions for me to downgrade to. Previously I was on hardware version 6289 for years with no issues. Would you happen to have hardware version 6408 (or 6289) available for me to downgrade to? Thanks!

Brian

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#39

Post by cwinfield » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:51 am

I do, you may need to downgrade your firmware version to 1.1.7.2 in order to downgrade your hw version. Files attached
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#40

Post by BrianL » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:24 pm

cwinfield wrote:I do, you may need to downgrade your firmware version to 1.1.7.2 in order to downgrade your hw version. Files attached
Hi Cwinfield,

Thanks for posting the files, I appreciate it. I was able to successfully downgrade my firmware version to 1.1.7.2 and hardware version to 6408 using the files you provided. Have you seen any issues with firmware version 1.1.7.2? I only ask because the Ceton Diagnostics tool lists firmware version 1.1.8.2 as an update with "stability improvements". I am hesitant to do any further updates unless needed... Thanks.

Brian

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