WMC locks up after starting

[Madcodger]

I built a new HTPC in October, designed to have a low power draw (about 50 watts) because it will be on all the time and I'm trying to minimize electricity use throughout the house. The machine has an i3 chip, 16GB RAM, and a 3TB hard drive. It uses the HDMI off the motherboard to drive a Sony LCD TV as the monitor. Windows Defender and Firewall, and after trying a Ceton InfiniTV4 PCIe, I am now trying a Silicon Dust HDHR Prime. I built the machine and just let it run for a month or so to make sure there were no problems before installing the Ceton (and switching to the HDHR a couple of weeks later) and the machine was easily viewable on the Sony TV, with no problems.

Here's the problem: Whenever I turn on WMC, the machine basically freezes, or nearly freezes. Moving the mouse across the screen may take a full minute! Scrolling is often impossible. Pressing Ctrl-Alt-Del of Ctrl-Shift-Esc sometimes works, and sometimes does nothing. And when I have been able to bring up task manager, the CPU and memory are barely being touched (it has 16GB RAM, so how could it be?). But the machine is basically unusable for several minutes, and sometimes the better part of an hour or more, after WMC starts up. Driving me nuts...

I've heard about needing to keep the display turned on at all times (or fooling it into staying on, via something like Dr HDMI) but don't know if that is the problem (comments welcome). I've also wondered if using the on-board graphics is the problem, and if installing a PCIe GPU would resolve it. I couldn't do that with the Ceton card as there is only one slot (remember, it's a small computer by design). But moving the the HDHR would of course allow it. But would it help? We do no gaming, and really just want to replace our Verizon STBs with this PC and some extenders. Ideas welcome, and thanks in advance for them.

[STC]

Possible: Run msconfig and disable all startup processes and see if it boots normally. Then turn on each process and test to find out which one is causing the delay.

[STC]

Excuse me I may have misunderstood.- Do you mean when you fire up WMC and not the WMC HTPC? Can you confirm regular windows boot up is fine if so disregard my post above.

[Madcodger]

Yes, the HTPC is fine when booting up and runs fine UNTIL the WMC GUI fires up. Then I get the lockup symptoms noted above. Here's some additional info: I find that it's the GUI, and not WMC itself, that seems to be the problem. I found this by accessing WMC just after startup using a Ceton Echo extender. I was able to access WMC easily via the Echo, but on the main HTPC screen, the mouse was still locked up and basically unusable. So it appears that processes not under control of of the WMC GUI are going on in the background without being hindered, but the GUI itself is rendered toast for quite some time after WMC starts.

[adam1991]

How many recordings, videos, and movies do you have that WMC is keeping track of?

[Madcodger]

How many recordings, videos, and movies do you have that WMC is keeping track of?

Well, that's just it: No movies (just want it to replace FIOS STB), and only ONE recording - a single series that just ended. And it has done this from moment one. The problem eventually goes away, and as noted it doesn't affect the extender- just the HTPC screen driven by HDMI off the board.

[3rob3]

Sounds like a driver issue to me. I would look at video first, then audio. You could also try (just as a test) using a different video connection like VGA if you can.

[lithium630]

Try to repair the system files. Open a command prompt as administrator and run

sfc /scannow

[Madcodger]

Thanks, all. I think the problems I'm having between WMC and now extenders may have me back to STBs. Reliability and WAF are more important than saving $50-$60 / month. I really don't want to have to keep adjusting this...

[3rob3]

Thanks, all. I think the problems I'm having between WMC and now extenders may have me back to STBs. Reliability and WAF are more important than saving $50-$60 / month. I really don't want to have to keep adjusting this...

You shouldn't have to, and the problems you describe are strange. When running properly the reliability of Media Center is very high (worst case reboot it every few weeks).

Edit...Just read your Echo problems, I am talking about a Media Center pc here. Although 360 extenders run great too.

[adam1991]

what rob said above.

Don't give up on it completely. $60/month is a lot to spend. Go that route if you have to, but as a temporary measure. There's gotta be a reason for your situation.

Of course, it could always be hardware. That's a sad thought.

[Mike88]

Thanks, all. I think the problems I'm having between WMC and now extenders may have me back to STBs. Reliability and WAF are more important than saving $50-$60 / month. I really don't want to have to keep adjusting this...

Just a thought - do a memory test on your RAM. My HTPC would reboot and/or shut down every so often. I checked the HDD status several times over several months & it was always OK. I never did a RAM test because I figured it was new RAM & therefore it should be OK. Eventually I did a memtest & it showed a RAM problem. When I used 2 sticks of RAM there was a problem, no matter which slots the sticks were in. There was no problem when using only 1 stick. I swapped RAM with my desktop which just happened to use the same type & speed.

The HTPC has not had a problem since. There was just an incompatibility issue of some sort. I just wish I had done a memtest earlier. I know it's a long shot but you can download memtest or memtest86 for free and give it a try.

[bandook]

I will also put in a vote for video or sound driver. I would uninstall both and reboot. See if windows installs the drivers after the reboot. If not find the latest drivers on Intel's site and reinstall.

You could verify if its a driver issue by sticking in a video card just to test. Though I'd bet that doing a clean install of the correct drivers will fix your issue. You could also take out some memory just for peace of mind really. There is zero benefit in having 16gigs of ram in a htpc. I would run with just two sticks. I'm assuming you have 4x4gb. Just from past experience I know some motherboards can get flaky when you max out ram. Unless you are prepared to do some tweaking of voltages and benchmarking. Its just good practice to keep hardware to a maintainable minimum when building for stability. Especially true in a htpc.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't sound like you are up to the task of building and servicing a htpc. I'm sure others here can vouch for me when I say that there are times where you can spend hours hunting down a glitch in your system. Not all components play nicely together so being willing to troubleshoot problems you may encounter is a must. I have been frustrated myself many times in my pursuit of htpc bliss, but I enjoy the challenge. Actually my rig has been running so well I'm almost missing the game of trial and error. However I'm sure I'll eventually install something that will throw everything into chaos, then the game will resume... Really I kid. I prefer things to run well, its just knowing that your system can get squirrely and having the patience to get it back on track.

[3rob3]

Actually my rig has been running so well I'm almost missing the game of trial and error. However I'm sure I'll eventually install something that will throw everything into chaos, then the game will resume...

I'm the same way! I remember back in the XP MCE days it took constant tinkering just to get things to work OK. Now things are so stable it's boring in a way!

Back to the original topic, definitely pull some ram and give it a test. Media Center will be fine on 4Gb, if it does run better than add a stick at a time back until it starts freezing again.

[Sparky19053]

Try to repair the system files. Open a command prompt as administrator and run

sfc /scannow

Plus one for this suggestion.
I started with the Echo’s early October 2013. I was plagued with issues. Lock ups, reboots, no sound, you name it. Finally after reading mountains of web pages I found the issues were all related to the corrupt files in the Win 7 OS. Maybe a bad install. Strangely the PC worked fine for other tasks.
After running sfc /scannow I was shown several issues within the OS. Besides sfc/scannow there is homebrew script called sfcfix that cleaned up the remaining issues. Since then three Echo’s are working all most perfectly. Mostly operator (wife) interface issues now.
I'm very happy I stuck with it and my monthly VZ invoice as been reduced $24.95.

[Madcodger]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't sound like you are up to the task of building and servicing a HTPC.

All,

First, an update on my system (which has now been performing well for several days) and then a comment on Bandook's comment.

As suggested, I tested my system memory. No problems were found in multiple scans. Given that the system performed flawlessly prior to using WMC, I doubted this was the problem, but that is now confirmed.

I then installed a 1GB video card rather than trying to use the HDMI output off the motherboard. THIS made a difference. I've no idea whether it was the only problem, but the system became at least usable. Delays / lags in the mouse still exist at times when running WMC (and ONLY when running WMC), but at least I am not totally locked out of the system. THIS WAS THE BIGGEST IMPROVEMENT, and if someone is reading this thread at a future date with a similar problem I would look at your HDMI output as a possible culprit.

At this point, the performance of WMC AND an attached extender (Ceton Echo) improved dramatically. I've no idea why an update to the video card would improve an extender's performance, or if it is just a coincidence. But the change was dramatic, to the point that the Echo functioned without problem for several days and is still functioning well.

To try to optimize things, I continued with the suggestions noted above and a few others as well. I ran sfc /scannow, several times. The cbs.log is difficult to wade through, but it IS possible some problems existed and were corrected, although I didn't see any. I am unaware of any UNcorrected problems at this point. I also deleted my audio drivers and allowed Windows 7 to find the correct (hopefully) drivers upon reboot. It did reconfigure the devices and options a bit after this, so I believe this is an updated driver. I disabled all unused audio devices, though, to help minimize any additional problems.

I then concentrated on my ethernet wiring, and replaced cat 5e wiring running between the Fios box (MOCA Box) and my Netgear WNDR3700v3 (gIgabit) router and two gigabit switches with cat 6 cabling and true cat 6 connectors. I still have some cat 5e in the overall system (out to wall jacks) and some cat 6 cabling with cat 5e connectors, but can't see any reason this would create a problem in this install so I'm leaving it (there is a practical limit, folks). EACH cable throughout the system has been checked for connectivity with a cable tester (I found two unused wall jacks that needed repair, so at least that accomplished something). I then assigned either a dedicated IP address or a reserved IP to each and every device in the household (wired and unwired), including phones, iPads, and other wireless devices. I have NOT set up QOS rules for everything, but that is next.

I finally tried burning a couple of DVDs onto the HTPC to see if they would also play (I've heard of problems with that) and am happy to report they worked flawlessly on both the HTPC monitor (Sony LCD TV) AND on the Ceton Echo (and yes, we watched both entire movies, and tested pause and restart as well).

So... that's an awful lot of work to watch TV... However, I can move forward feeling confident that this system is as optimized as it can practically get, aside from replacing cat 5e with cat 6 everywhere, and moving to managed switches. Both those are just impractical for a typical home or small business environment, frankly, and THAT'S where my comment on Bandook's comment comes in. What I failed to tell you is that this is an automated house - the second one I've owned and the second in which I've installed everything myself, including security, lighting, and HVAC control. I also maintained the network in my wife's small business for six years, and in my own for the past three. Now, I am NOT an "IT guy", by any means. I make my living outside the tech industry, but this is something of a hobby for me, and while I am definitely not at the level of most people on this forum, I'd say I'm well beyond the level of most consumers when it comes to electronics. So while your point is correct - I may well NOT be up to the task of maintaining a HTPC - the problem is that if the technology requires this much effort to get it even stable enough to watch live and recorded TV, then it frankly will not be much more than a hobby for almost anyone outside very dedicated, often professional, enthusiasts. I've seen the same thing in home automation for years, and that's why that industry has remained a tiny little niche. So my suggestion? Force manufacturers and and software providers to focus on stability above all else. I don't personally know anyone who would go to this amount of effort. I did it partly because I really do hate renting STBs or subscribing to TIVO, and I was frankly pretty ticked off that I couldn't get this to work. And it happened over the holidays, so I had about the ONE time in the year when I have some free time. Otherwise, it would have been back to the STBs! Thanks for all your help, and I'll update if changes occur.

[bandook]

Good on you for getting this straightened out! And thanks for not taking me the wrong way. It just seemed to me you were ready to toss in the towel on a rather trivial issue but now that you have explained I know where your coming from. There has been more than a few occasions I was ready to throw my computer down a flight of stairs. I agree the industry could do so much more to promote this segment of home media if they would give more attention to demands. I dream of a day when Asus and Nvidia release a motherboard produced solely for the htpc with a dedicated video chip that solves every HDMI handshake and framerate bug. And where xbmc gets cablelabs certified.

Anyways, I know your probably over it, but I'm confused why you are still experiencing mouse lag in wmc. Are you solely using mouse/KB, or will you use a remote. Is the lag just the mouse pointer moving across the screen, or does it lag when you scroll through the menus? Is wmc the only 3d program open? I ask this because the only time I notice any lag in wmc is when I have xbmc running in the background.

[Madcodger]

Anyways, I know your probably over it, but I'm confused why you are still experiencing mouse lag in WMC. Are you solely using mouse/KB, or will you use a remote. Is the lag just the mouse pointer moving across the screen, or does it lag when you scroll through the menus? Is WMC the only 3d program open? I ask this because the only time I notice any lag in WMC is when I have xbmc running in the background.

Well, this has me puzzled as well. I'm using a combo mouse/Kb from Logitech that operates perfectly w/o the WMC GUI running. And it only lags sometimes, generally after WMC starts. It's as if WMC is doing a lot in the background, but when you look at processes running nothing seems to be using up RAM or the CPU. It's just slooow at times. There is very little lag when scrolling through menus, although that has happened. Normally it's just a slow to move mouse pointer that evenually clears up.

When this occurs, WMC is the only thing running (or bearly so) other tha AV, firewall and GPU driver / software. I built the PC to also handle a home automation program (HomeSeer) but have kept it shut down. I do have Dropbox running as well, and Windows firewall and Defender. Do wish I could track it down - ideas welcome, and will keep you posted. Thanks!

[barnabas1969]

@Madcodger: It would be very helpful if you would post the model number of the CPU, motherboard, and video card that you installed.

In other words, "i3" isn't enough information. "i3-3225" is more informative.