Adding VHF channels

[martyHTPC]

I've been using WMC using just OTA since I cut the cord 8+ years ago. Just wondering why the VHF channels have to be manually entered and I saw all the post saying WMC doesn't scan the VHF band. But I didn't have to manually add anything when I first started using WMC. Is this not scanning the VHF band something new that Microsoft stopped doing awhile ago in addition to now no longer providing guide data. Just curious.

And Garyan2, kudos to you. Awesome product!! Microsoft should be paying you for taking all the heat off their backs, lol.

[garyan2]

When you setup WMC before, and you accepted the Program Guide Terms of Service along with identifying the lineup you use, MS/Zap2it and then MS/Rovi would supply those tuning parameters to you. You actually didn't scan anything and all your channels would magically be available immediately. For WMC in Win7, it does not scan the VHF frequencies at all evidently because MS didn't think ATSC would ever be in the VHF band.

[blupupher]

Whats weird is that for me (Zip 77449), Channels 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 were pulled in, but no other VHF channels were pulled in. I can add the others, just odd the 2's pulled over and others did not.
Not too hard to add them though.

[garyan2]

Your 2.x channels are on RF channel 35 ... not VHF. The VHF channels in your area are 11.x (11), 8.x (8), 13.x (13), and 7.x (7). The digital channel number can be anything and does not have to correlate with the physical RF channel. Your are just happens to be 2.x is 35.

For my area, it's all over the place. 4.x (23), 6.x (30), 9.x (9 and 27), 11.x (25), 13.x (32), ... and many more like that.

[jwk]

A point of clarification for those confused by the enumeration of broadcast television channels in the US. Before HD (ATSC) came into existence, SD (standard definition, NTSC) was broadcast on 2 bands, VHF and UHF, with of gap of frequencies in between. Channels were enumerated in ascending order beginning with the VHF band and continuing into the UHF band.
When HD (ATSC) was adopted the channel spectrum was re-arranged to minimize interference between adjacent channels and optimize propagation of the broadcast signal. This meant that some broadcasters had to change the frequency that they broadcast on. To avoid confusion among the public, the concept of the 'virtual channel' was designed into the ATSC specification. Viewers at home would continue to see their local stations with the same familiar channel numbers even though in many cases they were being broadcast on different physical frequencies, and even different bands. Since adopted, many channels in the US have been changed physical frequencies and bands one or more times during band-plan 'repacks' which the FCC has conducted to collapse the broadcast spectrum to 'provide additional frequencies for public service and safety operations'. When this happens, you are asked to re-scan your television channels, which re-associates the broadcaster's virtual channel number with the physical frequency it is assigned to and saves the list in your television's memory.
Hopefully this clarifies why, for instance, channels that in the past (NTSC era) were associated with the VHF band might actually be in the UHF band in the ATSC era, and vice-versa, and that in the future that could continue to change.

[prsa01]

I know I found this process somewhat confusing. In my case I had 2 vhf frequencies, each with multiple sub-channels. I spent a fair amount of time trying to find a 1to1 correspondence between frequency and sub-channel.

For example, my local NBC channels are vhf 11. Depending on the source, they list a mapping of 11.3 -> 11-1,etc. WMC only allows 2 digits for the digital (frequency?). I don't remember if that was the term. Ultimately, I mapped each of the sub-channels individually to 11 and that seemed to work. Once I did the mapping in epg123 it seemed to override what I put in anyway so don't know if I would have gotten the same result by only creating the main channel (11-1) and epg123 would have populated the rest or, as I did, creating each of the sub-channels was necessary.

Maybe this, and hopefully whatever discussion /answers come, will help someone else.

[jwk]

A logical mind would think that the first virtual channel number would be associated with the lowest RF channel frequency, but in fact while that's generally the case it really is a decision made by the operator of the station. I've seen instances where things like virtual channel xx-1 is actually the second RF channel of that station and where in a group of subchannel RF frequencies, one in the middle is designated "TEST" (generally ignored by channel guides and the subchannels below and above "TEST" are enumerated as xx-1, xx-2, xx-3, xx-4. Theoretically the lowest frequency of the group could be xx-4 and in descending order continue to xx-1 at the highest frequency, although I've never seen this done, but because they are 'virtual' channel numbers any combination is possible. Engineers are for the most part logically-minded, orderly people, so for the most part you'll find that reflected in the way the subchannels are related to frequency... there's no logical reason to do otherwise, and it just complicates their, and our lives.

I'm new to EPG123 (thanks to Microsoft introducing us recently) but have been using Win 7 WMC and the very first SiliconDust IP tuners arrived, so I'm still wrapping my head around EPG123.

[prsa01]

"I'm new to EPG123 (thanks to Microsoft introducing us recently) but have been using Win 7 WMC and the very first SiliconDust IP tuners arrived, so I'm still wrapping my head around EPG123."

Thanks

Sounds like we may be on the exact same setup. I'm on the original 2-tuner hdhomerun tuner that (back when I did my investigation) doesn't support dnla so won't work with newer versions of kodi along with lots of other things, I'm sure. I've considered getting an extend to get the built in compression, but haven't gotten further than tha.

[jwk]

"Sounds like we may be on the exact same setup."
Or, maybe we 'were': my original 2 channel SiliconDust Pro ATSC tuners that would also display all of the parameters of channel including data error rates, signal strength, and numerous other technical information used for troubleshooting reception problems, aiming antennas, etc. My current tuners are HDHR4-2 "Connects" x 8 in a pool which feed a Cisco switch for 2 WMC's, 7 J-River MC's, 2 iPhones, 1 iPad, and 1 MacBook Pro. Also have 2 HDHR Quatros that I use for travel along with a Flatwave amplified antenna and a TP-Link AC-750 travel router that can all be battery operated so I can get TV updates if I lose power (at home, after storms), or if I'm traveling.

[prsa01]

"Sounds like we may be on the exact same setup."
Or, maybe we 'were': my original 2 channel SiliconDust Pro ATSC tuners that would also display all of the parameters of channel including data error rates, signal strength, and numerous other technical information used for troubleshooting reception problems, aiming antennas, etc. My current tuners are HDHR4-2 "Connects" x 8 in a pool which feed a Cisco switch for 2 WMC's, 7 J-River MC's, 2 iPhones, 1 iPad, and 1 MacBook Pro. Also have 2 HDHR Quatros that I use for travel along with a Flatwave amplified antenna and a TP-Link AC-750 travel router that can all be battery operated so I can get TV updates if I lose power (at home, after storms), or if I'm traveling.

Left me WAY in the dust;-) Im not sure we even get that many OTA channels. Sounds like a great setup.