EPG123 is not finding and/or matching all 3 of my HDHomeruns

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bw1

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EPG123 is not finding and/or matching all 3 of my HDHomeruns

#1

Post by bw1 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:13 pm

Since experiencing many of the same issues with MS/Rovi EPG and also nearly running out of guide data recently, I decided to try setting up epg123 on my desktop while keeping my HTPC production box up and running on MS/Rovi for now. Fortunately, it seems to be getting guide data again, but I'd rather get this set up now and from the looks of it so far, it seems to be a significant improvement.

So thanks for this effort and hopefully I can get my issues resolved and switch over completely.

I started with no installation of WMC on my desktop, since I had removed it previously. However, there was still an ehome directory, so I started with step 0 and stopped the services and removed the ehome directory. I then re-installed WMC.

I was then able to follow all the steps and get WMC setup with the guide fed from EPG123/SD. However, I wasn't able to watch any of the channels (connected to 3 HDHomeruns). It took me a while but I was finally able to determine that I needed to create an inbound rule for ehRecvr in Windows Firewall. I'm still not sure why, though.

The main problem that I'm having is that epg123 is not finding and/or matching all 3 of my HDHomeruns. I've tried setting up WMC a couple of times in different ways, once allowing WMC to find and configure all 3 HDHomeruns (8 total tuners) and once where I set up each HDHomerun separately.

In either case, Guidetool is only showing the HDHomerun Prime tuners and not the other 2 HDHomeruns - both setup as Clear QAM tuners, 1 with 2 tuners and the other with 3 tuners. I see the same issue under "Edit Sources" in WMC. Of course, when I tune to any channel, I get it through the first Prime tuner.

Note that I'm also seeing the doubling of the Prime tuners as reported in this thread: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =99&t=9903

Am I doing something wrong or is there some matching that is not working correctly.

I should note that I want to be able to configure my Clear QAM tuners separately from my Prime tuners, so that the channels that can be tuned to using Clear QAM will use the Clear QAM tuners first and only those that are encrypted through the cable card are using the Prime.


Some other issues I've found:

WMC using SD data shows IndyCar Series Pre Race as a repeat on Sun 4/17 at 4:00 PM on NBCSN, but Zap2it TV listings show it as new (live) and so does WMC using Rovi data.

I can't set up a series recording for IndyCar Racing or Formula One Racing or NHL Hockey or NASCAR Racing.

When doing a search for a show - (e.g. Search, Categories, Sports, Auto racing), even though it shows More..., selecting the show sometimes only displays the synopsis of next instance of the show, instead of multiple showings. Others are working correctly and display the multiple showings under the heading "showings".

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#2

Post by schottjy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:32 pm

bw1 wrote: I can't set up a series recording for IndyCar Racing or Formula One Racing or NHL Hockey or NASCAR Racing.

When doing a search for a show - (e.g. Search, Categories, Sports, Auto racing), even though it shows More..., selecting the show sometimes only displays the synopsis of next instance of the show, instead of multiple showings. Others are working correctly and display the multiple showings under the heading "showings".
Yeah I'm seeing the same issue for Formula One Racing. After the Rovi switchover, I started doing Wishlist Keyword series for Formula One and I guess I'll revert back to that for this weekend at least.
Series recordings for "Formula One Racing" used to work perfectly before the Rovi switchover.

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#3

Post by captain_video » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:32 pm

Did you reboot your HTPC after removing the eHome directory and before running WMC TV signal setup? That usually fixes the problem of your tuners not being discovered during setup. Are you running TunerSalad? You may have to rerun that before running TV signal setup as well. I ran into the same issues and rebooting between each step fixed it every time.

FYI - I'm running a HDHR Prime and three HDHR Connects. Sometimes the Connect tuners would be discovered as QAM and some would be shown as ATSC. If you go through and set them up manually they'll show up the way you want. Just specify the type of tuner during the manual setup and it will work.

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#4

Post by garyan2 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:29 pm

schottjy wrote:
bw1 wrote: I can't set up a series recording for IndyCar Racing or Formula One Racing or NHL Hockey or NASCAR Racing.

When doing a search for a show - (e.g. Search, Categories, Sports, Auto racing), even though it shows More..., selecting the show sometimes only displays the synopsis of next instance of the show, instead of multiple showings. Others are working correctly and display the multiple showings under the heading "showings".
Yeah I'm seeing the same issue for Formula One Racing. After the Rovi switchover, I started doing Wishlist Keyword series for Formula One and I guess I'll revert back to that for this weekend at least.
Series recordings for "Formula One Racing" used to work perfectly before the Rovi switchover.
I'm surprised this hasn't come up before ... I don't have the sports events setup as a series. I recognize the need to revisit how I handle sporting events, but ....

Nevermind, just formulated a method to make this better, if not perfect. Keep in mind that sporting event IDs are not always what we would consider correct. For instance, take College Basketball; even though you would think all regular season college basketball games would be the same series, there are actually quite a few different base numbers used for series identification. Selecting to record all basketball games with base number 0123456 will not pick up all the basketball games with base number 6543210. It will just get you most of the way there.

Next version will make this better in the next few days.
- Gary
Stomping out the Rovi disease, one media center at a time. http://epg123.garyan2.net

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#5

Post by bw1 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:10 pm

schottjy wrote:
bw1 wrote: I can't set up a series recording for IndyCar Racing or Formula One Racing or NHL Hockey or NASCAR Racing.

When doing a search for a show - (e.g. Search, Categories, Sports, Auto racing), even though it shows More..., selecting the show sometimes only displays the synopsis of next instance of the show, instead of multiple showings. Others are working correctly and display the multiple showings under the heading "showings".
Yeah I'm seeing the same issue for Formula One Racing. After the Rovi switchover, I started doing Wishlist Keyword series for Formula One and I guess I'll revert back to that for this weekend at least.
Series recordings for "Formula One Racing" used to work perfectly before the Rovi switchover.
Yes, using Rovi data for a series recording of Formula 1 ends up recording every airing of every session. I've never even setup a NASCAR Racing series, because there's way too many different racing series under that heading and I only want the top one.

I just learned about the Wishlist keyword series recording today. That should give me more options.
captain_video wrote:Did you reboot your HTPC after removing the eHome directory and before running WMC TV signal setup? That usually fixes the problem of your tuners not being discovered during setup. Are you running TunerSalad? You may have to rerun that before running TV signal setup as well. I ran into the same issues and rebooting between each step fixed it every time.

FYI - I'm running a HDHR Prime and three HDHR Connects. Sometimes the Connect tuners would be discovered as QAM and some would be shown as ATSC. If you go through and set them up manually they'll show up the way you want. Just specify the type of tuner during the manual setup and it will work.
It's always something obvious, isn't it. :) That seems to have fixed it.

I have two HDHR Primes but I only run 1 with a cable card, the other I just use for QAM, plus an older HDHR3-US. I set it up with manually in TV Setup - first the HDHR3, then the Prime with cable card and finally the QAM Prime. That way tuning to the QAM channels on WMC will use the HDHR3 and if tuning to the QAM channels from my extender running Kodi, it will use the QAM Prime.

Now I'm seeing (in Guidetool) the QAM channels listed separately as 1008.xx, where xx matches the channel number for the Prime with cable card. I then have to renumber, subscribe and merge the tuners for each of the QAM channels.

This is what I've had to do in the recent past setting up WMC with Rovi. Is that what you get too?
garyan2 wrote: I'm surprised this hasn't come up before ... I don't have the sports events setup as a series. I recognize the need to revisit how I handle sporting events, but ....

Nevermind, just formulated a method to make this better, if not perfect. Keep in mind that sporting event IDs are not always what we would consider correct. For instance, take College Basketball; even though you would think all regular season college basketball games would be the same series, there are actually quite a few different base numbers used for series identification. Selecting to record all basketball games with base number 0123456 will not pick up all the basketball games with base number 6543210. It will just get you most of the way there.

Next version will make this better in the next few days.
Thanks, I'm looking forward to trying it - all the major series are racing this weekend, plus playoffs are starting for NHL Hockey.


BTW, does anyone have any idea on this -
WMC using SD data shows IndyCar Series Pre Race as a repeat on Sun 4/17 at 4:00 PM on NBCSN, but Zap2it TV listings show it as new (live) and so does WMC using Rovi data.
Anyone with NBCSN should be able to see it. I also saw it with a Red Wings Pre-game, this past weekend. I was thinking that maybe epg123 was setting any event not listed as new to repeat, even though it's listed as live. But I saw other examples that were correct.

Is this maybe as SD issue?

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#6

Post by captain_video » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:15 pm

bw1 wrote:
captain_video wrote:Did you reboot your HTPC after removing the eHome directory and before running WMC TV signal setup? That usually fixes the problem of your tuners not being discovered during setup. Are you running TunerSalad? You may have to rerun that before running TV signal setup as well. I ran into the same issues and rebooting between each step fixed it every time.

FYI - I'm running a HDHR Prime and three HDHR Connects. Sometimes the Connect tuners would be discovered as QAM and some would be shown as ATSC. If you go through and set them up manually they'll show up the way you want. Just specify the type of tuner during the manual setup and it will work.
It's always something obvious, isn't it. :) That seems to have fixed it.

I have two HDHR Primes but I only run 1 with a cable card, the other I just use for QAM, plus an older HDHR3-US. I set it up with manually in TV Setup - first the HDHR3, then the Prime with cable card and finally the QAM Prime. That way tuning to the QAM channels on WMC will use the HDHR3 and if tuning to the QAM channels from my extender running Kodi, it will use the QAM Prime.

Now I'm seeing (in Guidetool) the QAM channels listed separately as 1008.xx, where xx matches the channel number for the Prime with cable card. I then have to renumber, subscribe and merge the tuners for each of the QAM channels.

This is what I've had to do in the recent past setting up WMC with Rovi. Is that what you get too?
I only run OTA and cable channels so I've never had to renumber anything. My OTA lineup for HD locals just integrates nicely with my FIOS lineup.

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#7

Post by bw1 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:07 pm

captain_video wrote: I only run OTA and cable channels so I've never had to renumber anything. My OTA lineup for HD locals just integrates nicely with my FIOS lineup.
I just read another post that is similar to what I have to do - http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 32#p102532 - and he just made it easier too!

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#8

Post by schottjy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:16 pm

bw1 wrote: WMC using SD data shows IndyCar Series Pre Race as a repeat on Sun 4/17 at 4:00 PM on NBCSN, but Zap2it TV listings show it as new (live) and so does WMC using Rovi data.

Anyone with NBCSN should be able to see it. I also saw it with a Red Wings Pre-game, this past weekend. I was thinking that maybe epg123 was setting any event not listed as new to repeat, even though it's listed as live. But I saw other examples that were correct.

Is this maybe as SD issue?
On my system, it shows it as being both Live and having an Original Air Date of 4/2/2016.

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#9

Post by bw1 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:08 am

schottjy wrote:
bw1 wrote: WMC using SD data shows IndyCar Series Pre Race as a repeat on Sun 4/17 at 4:00 PM on NBCSN, but Zap2it TV listings show it as new (live) and so does WMC using Rovi data.

Anyone with NBCSN should be able to see it. I also saw it with a Red Wings Pre-game, this past weekend. I was thinking that maybe epg123 was setting any event not listed as new to repeat, even though it's listed as live. But I saw other examples that were correct.

Is this maybe as SD issue?
On my system, it shows it as being both Live and having an Original Air Date of 4/2/2016.
Mine has that too, but shows "IndyCar Series Pre Race (Repeat)".

Although I do notice that I do not have a regular NBCSN lineup channel in WMC/SD and the Zap2it TV listings lineup has changed from NBCSNHD to NBCSDTB.

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#10

Post by schottjy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:22 am

bw1 wrote:
schottjy wrote:
bw1 wrote: WMC using SD data shows IndyCar Series Pre Race as a repeat on Sun 4/17 at 4:00 PM on NBCSN, but Zap2it TV listings show it as new (live) and so does WMC using Rovi data.

Anyone with NBCSN should be able to see it. I also saw it with a Red Wings Pre-game, this past weekend. I was thinking that maybe epg123 was setting any event not listed as new to repeat, even though it's listed as live. But I saw other examples that were correct.

Is this maybe as SD issue?
On my system, it shows it as being both Live and having an Original Air Date of 4/2/2016.
Mine has that too, but shows "IndyCar Series Pre Race (Repeat)".

Although I do notice that I do not have a regular NBCSN lineup channel in WMC/SD and the Zap2it TV listings lineup has changed from NBCSNHD to NBCSDTB.
I do see the Episode Title as (Repeat) as well, sorry if I didn't indicate that earlier.

IndyCar Series Pre Race
(Repeat)
Sun, 4/17, 4:00-4:30 PM CH 314 NBCSN

IndyCar Series Post Race is has similar information.

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#11

Post by garyan2 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:13 am

Okay, next release will override the OAD when the schedule entry is tagged with "New". This will get rid of the (Repeat) on Live programs. The data I was getting from Gracenote/SD was an OAD of 4/2/2016 and New which obviously conflict. This override was asked for a while back concerning initial airing of foreign shows and I held back. Screwing up sports showings crossed the line. :x

Also, sports programs are now part of a series ... don't know how complete a series record will be, but it is more than nothing.
- Gary
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#12

Post by schottjy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:19 am

Excellent, thanks garyan2!

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#13

Post by Space » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:31 am

garyan2 wrote:Okay, next release will override the OAD when the schedule entry is tagged with "New". This will get rid of the (Repeat) on Live programs. The data I was getting from Gracenote/SD was an OAD of 4/2/2016 and New which obviously conflict. This override was asked for a while back concerning initial airing of foreign shows and I held back. Screwing up sports showings crossed the line. :x

Also, sports programs are now part of a series ... don't know how complete a series record will be, but it is more than nothing.
Out of curiosity, how are you accomplishing this?

It is my understanding that only the first airing of a given episode is marked as NEW, all subsequent airings of that same episode do not have the NEW marking.
So lets say that the NEW episode airs on 5/15, and then that episode repeats on 5/16, 5/18 and 5/21.

When you download the listings on 5/14, you can see that the future 5/15 airing is NEW and you can set the OAD on the episode to be that date (which also sets the OAD on the 5/16, 5/18, and 5/21 airings.)

But what about when you download the guide on 5/16 or later?

There is no longer any entry for that episode that is marked as NEW, so how do you know to continue to change the OAD for the 5/16, 5/18 and 5/21 airings?

Do you keep track of any OAD you changed in the cache? How long to you keep track of it (I would guess just 7 days, since that is how long WMC marks an episode as new after the OAD)?

Or maybe I am missing something and you are doing it some other way...

Also, what if the guide is not updated for a while and it misses the "NEW" airing all together, and then you update the day after the NEW airing, how will repeats of that episode be updated to have the NEW OAD?

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#14

Post by garyan2 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:48 am

Space wrote:
garyan2 wrote:Okay, next release will override the OAD when the schedule entry is tagged with "New". This will get rid of the (Repeat) on Live programs. The data I was getting from Gracenote/SD was an OAD of 4/2/2016 and New which obviously conflict. This override was asked for a while back concerning initial airing of foreign shows and I held back. Screwing up sports showings crossed the line. :x

Also, sports programs are now part of a series ... don't know how complete a series record will be, but it is more than nothing.
Out of curiosity, how are you accomplishing this?

It is my understanding that only the first airing of a given episode is marked as NEW, all subsequent airings of that same episode do not have the NEW marking.
So lets say that the NEW episode airs on 5/15, and then that episode repeats on 5/16, 5/18 and 5/21.

When you download the listings on 5/14, you can see that the future 5/15 airing is NEW and you can set the OAD on the episode to be that date (which also sets the OAD on the 5/16, 5/18, and 5/21 airings.)

But what about when you download the guide on 5/16 or later?

There is no longer any entry for that episode that is marked as NEW, so how do you know to continue to change the OAD for the 5/16, 5/18 and 5/21 airings?

Do you keep track of any OAD you changed in the cache? How long to you keep track of it (I would guess just 7 days, since that is how long WMC marks an episode as new after the OAD)?

Or maybe I am missing something and you are doing it some other way...

Also, what if the guide is not updated for a while and it misses the "NEW" airing all together, and then you update the day after the NEW airing, how will repeats of that episode be updated to have the NEW OAD?
You're over thinking it, Space. Once the NEW episode is past, then everything else is a repeat, regardless of the OAD or the NEW date. I don't track it at all, I just know if a program is flagged as NEW, then the OAD will match the scheduled date.
- Gary
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#15

Post by Space » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:07 am

garyan2 wrote:...
You're over thinking it, Space. Once the NEW episode is past, then everything else is a repeat, regardless of the OAD or the NEW date. I don't track it at all, I just know if a program is flagged as NEW, then the OAD will match the scheduled date.
It was my understanding that an episode is considered NEW if the OAD is within 7 days before the airing date of the episode (look in the WMC guide and you will not see the (Repeat) indicator on any episode that has an OAD that is less than 7 days earlier than the air date). This is so that it will record a later airing of an episode if it cannot record the first airing (due to conflict or a problem while trying to record the initial airing).

If you have a series set to "New" I don't think it will record anything but the initial airing of the show if the other airings of that same episode have their OAD changed to something that is not within 7 days of the air date. I admit this is just assumption on my part, as I am not aware of this ever happening.

This scenario will probably only happen if there is an update to the episode (from Gracenote) that causes you to have to overwrite the cached data for that episode and that update occurs after the first airing of that episode is no longer in the guide (the one marked as NEW). So I am guessing it would be a rare occurrence.

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#16

Post by webminster » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:05 pm

garyan2 wrote:Okay, next release will override the OAD when the schedule entry is tagged with "New".
One request however... this feels like it might be situation not without risk, so can this override behavior be an option, so if it doesn't work out for some people it can be disabled?
-Alan

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#17

Post by KenL » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:30 am

I agree make it optional if possible.
garyan2 wrote:...The purist in me objects to altering the facts (OAD)
Space wrote:...I would say if it is not too much trouble, make it an option. If people like it, they can turn it on, otherwise just leave it at the default and you get the actual OAD for foreign series. Unless, of course, you can find a way to make an episode NEW without changing the OAD (which I think you already tried).
I *overthought* the issue when it first came up and wondered about the situation where the NEW episode gets the corrected OAD and the repeats revert to the gracenote OAD which might result in differing OADs for recordings of the same episode.

At any rate retaining an option not to "alter the facts" should allow mitigation of potential issues however rare either way. The default could be NEW or LIVE get corrected OAD.

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#18

Post by garyan2 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:35 am

Believe me, I did the same overthinking which is why I stepped away from it the first time. At the end of the day, it boils down to - did the user record what they wanted to record, and not record what they didn't. To caution on the side of error would be to "correct" the error in the guide so that a new episode is not missed by correcting the OAD to benefit the New episode only recordings. If the user records new & rerun, then of course there is no difference. The only risk would be if a channel broadcasting a syndicated show decides to flag an episode as new because it is new to them ... I haven't seen any indication of that happening. Even if it does happen, it would only affect people recording new shows on all channels which is easy enough to correct for in WMC.

Of course, like I said before, the purist in me hates to change real data. I also recognize that what should really happen is the problem be corrected at the source, not in my program. By hiding the problem, the real issue is never addressed.
- Gary
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#19

Post by schottjy » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:04 am

If this is something that's wrong with the data coming from SchedulesDirect, I'm inclined to agree that it should be fixed upstream.

Is this a fairly common, pervasive problem with the data? epg123 currently produces warnings for inconsistencies such as Time Discontinuities, can it produce warnings for inconsistent OAD/Live/Repeat status for feeding back to SD? Or is this so common that it's unlikely that it gets fixed.

I'm also surprised that other communities/software packages that use SchedulesDirect wouldn't have similar issues?

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#20

Post by Space » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:46 am

I don't record any sports programming, so I can't speak to that. But I do know that for regular TV show episodes, the OAD is often the date that the episode originally aired, even if it was in a foreign country and there is no way that you could have recorded that airing in your home country.

I agree that Gracenote should implement per-country OAD fields, so that you can always use the US-OAD if you are in the US, Canada-OAD if you're in Canada, etc.

I would guess that Gracenote updating a program after it has already had it's premiere airing (or even the same day as it's airing) is uncommon, but common enough to be a problem.

Let's say that last minute, the episode title or the description for the episode is changed (really any change to the program data), but you don't download the new information until after the initial airing (NEW) day has passed. EPG123 will update the program data with the original OAD (overwriting the cached data that originally had the NEW-OAD), since it will no longer see the "NEW" airing of that program in the listings.

All the airings of that episode will now be marked as "Repeat" in WMC, and I doubt that if a Series set to "New only" would record any of them (this would have to be tested, but I am pretty sure it would not work).

As far as this problem being encountered before with other DVRs, yes I am sure of it, I seem to recall people discussing this with regards to other DVRs (such as MythTV, etc.) I am not sure if they came up with any solutions however...

For me personally, I almost always use "New & rerun" and specific-channel on my Series settings, so this problem does not affect me most of the time. The only time it does is if I have the Series set to "New" for some reason (usually to avoid recording a old episodes of a show that has a lot of repeats from previous seasons airing on the same channel from before I started recording the series, but this is rare for me).

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