Why the resistance?

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Why the resistance?

Post#1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:39 pm

Specifically, I ask: why the resistance to paying $25/year for the guide data? Why does this continue to come up as an issue?

Lurking around this site, you'd think people were asked to kill their mothers or something. Seriously, is $25/year THAT much worth wringing your hands about that it alone stops you from going EPG123?

If you refuse to pay $25/year out of some sense of righteousness, some sense of "because they told me WMC would be free! And I'm entitled!", and that sense of entitlement keeps putting you down the path of Rovi data that simply isn't there, AND you choose to deal with the missing data instead of paying $25/year....expect to be ridiculed.

Either shut up about the missing data, or quit using WMC and find another free setup that's as good. I hear Myth is looking for a few good users.

That is all.
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Post#2 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:50 pm

People should keep in mind that they don't get data only for WMC when they subscribe to SchedulesDirect. They can also use their SD subscription with XMLTV and a number of other free applications to search, display, whatever their listings.

Personally, I'm writing a .NET assembly to update a local SQLite database with listings from SchedulesDirect and an application on top of that to display my searches in an attractive (hopefully) interface. :)
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Post#3 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:12 am

Yea, I don't get it either. I guess everyone has their own reasons. To me, $25/year is $2.08 each month....that's a slice of pizza or cup of coffee.
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Post#4 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:38 am

Scallica wrote:Yea, I don't get it either. I guess everyone has their own reasons. To me, $25/year is $2.08 each month....that's a slice of pizza or cup of coffee.


Some people just cant justify paying for something that has been free forever. I was one looking for an option to use Zap2TV as a free option again, with EPG123... Why ? People don't want to pay for schedules direct but, will complain when there is an issue. So if there was a 3rd party free option that possibly could be a little better than the POS ROVI... Then they see it that it could only get better and maybe they can justify the $25 per year.

It's just like anything else... we could go to anything else...like baggage fees on airplanes...It was always free before and the big outrage (although $25 per bag is a little extreme in my eyes).. See what I am getting at ?
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Post#5 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:09 am

$25/year to continue the wonderful WMC and remove the headaches that MS has created--that's as close to "it's still free" as you can get.
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Post#6 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:03 am

Adam,

So-far, the Microsoft guide data has been working fine for me. I have no objection to paying for some other service.

But, honestly... I am just riding-it-out until the Silicondust DVR finally becomes a viable solution for me.

My question is thus: When will Silicondust deliver on their promised DVR???

So-far, it hasn't materialized as they promised. When it gets somewhere near as good as WMC... I'll switch to SD DVR in a heartbeat.

When is that going to happen???

EDIT:

I am currently forced to use the Showtime and HBO apps on my Roku in order to watch stuff on my subscribed Showtime and HBO channels, due to the fact that my cable provider has switched to h.264 encoding, and WMC doesn't support that encoding method for protected channels.

I am waiting for the SD DVR to support protected channels. Until the SD DVR supports protected content, I have no reason to leave WMC.

In other words... Silicondust needs to get their "stuff" together.
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Post#7 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:17 pm

john321 wrote:Adam,

So-far, the Microsoft guide data has been working fine for me. I have no objection to paying for some other service.

But, honestly... I am just riding-it-out until the Silicondust DVR finally becomes a viable solution for me.

My question is thus: When will Silicondust deliver on their promised DVR???

So-far, it hasn't materialized as they promised. When it gets somewhere near as good as WMC... I'll switch to SD DVR in a heartbeat.

When is that going to happen???

EDIT:

I am currently forced to use the Showtime and HBO apps on my Roku in order to watch stuff on my subscribed Showtime and HBO channels, due to the fact that my cable provider has switched to h.264 encoding, and WMC doesn't support that encoding method for protected channels.

I am waiting for the SD DVR to support protected channels. Until the SD DVR supports protected content, I have no reason to leave WMC.

In other words... Silicondust needs to get their "stuff" together.


Isn't that $30 a year?
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Post#8 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:02 am

I switched last year finally to EPG123.. When the guide data ran out and a fix from MS didn't look like it was much of a priority at MS. I gave up on waiting on them to fix it.

Lets face facts.. WMC is running on borrowed time. It's supposed to be supported but honestly WMC is not a priority at MS. Guide data issues continue to happen and will continue to happen.

Do yourself a favor. If you're going to continue to use WMC at all just bite the bullet and pay the $25.00/year and switch to EPG123. It's the best move I have made with WMC in some time.

The guide data is better, Accurate and always there, Images are better and Gary keeps updating the application and adding to it. It's fairly easy to install and get up and running.

Sure.. We had free guide data for a long time but it's just not worth free if it sucks and there is a better paid option that honestly isn't that expensive when you consider all the headaches it removes!
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Post#9 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:11 am

You need to pay for it for Emby DVR..
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Post#10 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:18 am

I don't want to create the wrong impression here, Gracenote/SD IS much better than TiVo/Rovi for accuracy, but not always...

For instance, yesterday MTV's "The Challenge" had two new episodes airing; the schedule was correct on TiVo/Rovi (airing at around 9pm and 11pm ET), but wrong on Gracenote/SD (indicating that they were airing at ~8pm and 10pm ET).

Also, the changes they made to their website listings (screenertv.com/zap2it.com) made the site suck. They removed a lot of great functionality to make it more touch-screen/phone friendly. I've had to move to TitanTV.com to get some of the functionality back, and it is actually better in some respects than the old zap2it, but the data quality is not up to par with Gracenote.
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Post#11 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:23 am

adam1991 wrote:Specifically, I ask: why the resistance to paying $25/year for the guide data? Why does this continue to come up as an issue?

Lurking around this site, you'd think people were asked to kill their mothers or something. Seriously, is $25/year THAT much worth wringing your hands about that it alone stops you from going EPG123?

If you refuse to pay $25/year out of some sense of righteousness, some sense of "because they told me WMC would be free! And I'm entitled!", and that sense of entitlement keeps putting you down the path of Rovi data that simply isn't there, AND you choose to deal with the missing data instead of paying $25/year....expect to be ridiculed.

Either shut up about the missing data, or quit using WMC and find another free setup that's as good. I hear Myth is looking for a few good users.

That is all.
Because people don't have $25 per year to pay for better guide data, but have no problem dropping more per month on Starbucks or cigarettes

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Post#12 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:02 am

Sammy2 wrote:
john321 wrote:Adam,

So-far, the Microsoft guide data has been working fine for me. I have no objection to paying for some other service.

But, honestly... I am just riding-it-out until the Silicondust DVR finally becomes a viable solution for me.

My question is thus: When will Silicondust deliver on their promised DVR???

So-far, it hasn't materialized as they promised. When it gets somewhere near as good as WMC... I'll switch to SD DVR in a heartbeat.

When is that going to happen???

EDIT:

I am currently forced to use the Showtime and HBO apps on my Roku in order to watch stuff on my subscribed Showtime and HBO channels, due to the fact that my cable provider has switched to h.264 encoding, and WMC doesn't support that encoding method for protected channels.

I am waiting for the SD DVR to support protected channels. Until the SD DVR supports protected content, I have no reason to leave WMC.

In other words... Silicondust needs to get their "stuff" together.


Isn't that $30 a year?

Yep, it's $30 a year. Like I said, I have no problem with the cost. I just want something that works.
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Post#13 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:06 am

newfiend wrote:I switched last year finally to EPG123.. When the guide data ran out and a fix from MS didn't look like it was much of a priority at MS. I gave up on waiting on them to fix it.

Lets face facts.. WMC is running on borrowed time. It's supposed to be supported but honestly WMC is not a priority at MS. Guide data issues continue to happen and will continue to happen.

Do yourself a favor. If you're going to continue to use WMC at all just bite the bullet and pay the $25.00/year and switch to EPG123. It's the best move I have made with WMC in some time.

The guide data is better, Accurate and always there, Images are better and Gary keeps updating the application and adding to it. It's fairly easy to install and get up and running.

Sure.. We had free guide data for a long time but it's just not worth free if it sucks and there is a better paid option that honestly isn't that expensive when you consider all the headaches it removes!
newfiend~

Hi Curt!

May I ask why you didn't switch to the Silicondust DVR solution instead of camping on WMC and using a 3rd party EPG provider?

EDIT:

I'm not kidding here. I really want to know. I am seriously thinking about switching to the SD DVR... even though it STILL doesn't support recording DRM content.

I am on Comcast... and my Showtime and HBO channels are DRM... with H.264 encoding... so WMC will NOT play the recordings. I am forced to use the Showtime and HBO app on my Roku in order to watch the content on Showtime and HBO.

I am starting to believe that I would be no worse-off if I was using the SD DVR. At least with the SD DVR, I would get better GUIDE data, right???

I can easily load Win10 on my existing HTPC, and I have no objection to buying a few Xbox One S systems... and/or building some mini-ITX Win10 systems... to be clients... instead of my current fleet of Xbox 360 systems.

At this point, I think it is time to move forward with new software, and new(er) hardware.

Am I missing something here?
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Post#14 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:27 am

BTW, I am not saying that I have zero problems with the guide data that comes from Rovi/Microsoft. It certainly has some problems occasionally. Mostly, I get repeated recordings of shows that I recorded previously. In that case, it's no big deal. I just delete them.

However... occasionally, it misses a "new" recording. In those rare instances, I am always able to watch the missed "new" show online in one way or another.

My biggest beef with Silicondust is that they are SOOOOO far behind schedule... and that they STILL cannot record DRM content. I updated my support case with them the other day, and I received a response saying that they can now pause/rewind/ffwd DRM content... but they still cannot record it.

This gives me hope. If they can pause/rewind/ffwd the content... that means that they are able to write the currently-watched DRM show to a "buffer" file, allowing the user to rewind/ffwd/pause. In my mind, the next logical step is to write that "buffer" file to a permanent storage location.

Hopefully, SD will figure it out soon. I'm about to make the plunge into SD DVR and scrap WMC forever.

If you have had an experience with SD DVR, please share your views.
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Post#15 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:09 pm

I switched to SD and EPG123 about a year and a half ago and have never looked back. I also do something every time I pay SD (and I'd like to make a kindly suggestion to the rest of you) and that's to make a donation to garayan2.

The way I see it (as someone else mentioned) it's the cost of a pizza or two per year. I don't know about the rest of you but I really need to pass up on a few pizzas a year and this helps me do that!

In return I get stable guide data and a much healthier lifestyle! How can you go wrong? ;)
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Post#16 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:26 pm

choliscott wrote:
adam1991 wrote:Specifically, I ask: why the resistance to paying $25/year for the guide data? Why does this continue to come up as an issue?

Lurking around this site, you'd think people were asked to kill their mothers or something. Seriously, is $25/year THAT much worth wringing your hands about that it alone stops you from going EPG123?

If you refuse to pay $25/year out of some sense of righteousness, some sense of "because they told me WMC would be free! And I'm entitled!", and that sense of entitlement keeps putting you down the path of Rovi data that simply isn't there, AND you choose to deal with the missing data instead of paying $25/year....expect to be ridiculed.

Either shut up about the missing data, or quit using WMC and find another free setup that's as good. I hear Myth is looking for a few good users.

That is all.
Because people don't have $25 per year to pay for better guide data, but have no problem dropping more per month on Starbucks or cigarettes


You win this thread.
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Post#17 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:23 am

john321 wrote:
newfiend wrote:I switched last year finally to EPG123.. When the guide data ran out and a fix from MS didn't look like it was much of a priority at MS. I gave up on waiting on them to fix it.

Lets face facts.. WMC is running on borrowed time. It's supposed to be supported but honestly WMC is not a priority at MS. Guide data issues continue to happen and will continue to happen.

Do yourself a favor. If you're going to continue to use WMC at all just bite the bullet and pay the $25.00/year and switch to EPG123. It's the best move I have made with WMC in some time.

The guide data is better, Accurate and always there, Images are better and Gary keeps updating the application and adding to it. It's fairly easy to install and get up and running.

Sure.. We had free guide data for a long time but it's just not worth free if it sucks and there is a better paid option that honestly isn't that expensive when you consider all the headaches it removes!
newfiend~

Hi Curt!

May I ask why you didn't switch to the Silicondust DVR solution instead of camping on WMC and using a 3rd party EPG provider?

EDIT:

I'm not kidding here. I really want to know. I am seriously thinking about switching to the SD DVR... even though it STILL doesn't support recording DRM content.

I am on Comcast... and my Showtime and HBO channels are DRM... with H.264 encoding... so WMC will NOT play the recordings. I am forced to use the Showtime and HBO app on my Roku in order to watch the content on Showtime and HBO.

I am starting to believe that I would be no worse-off if I was using the SD DVR. At least with the SD DVR, I would get better GUIDE data, right???

I can easily load Win10 on my existing HTPC, and I have no objection to buying a few Xbox One S systems... and/or building some mini-ITX Win10 systems... to be clients... instead of my current fleet of Xbox 360 systems.

At this point, I think it is time to move forward with new software, and new(er) hardware.

Am I missing something here?


Hey John,
The reason I didn't switch to SD's DVR is for a few reasons. I have Ceton Tuners installed still, My setup still works at the moment for what I need. I don't subscribe to HBO etc. so I don't have any issues with Comcast and .h264 like others have. Also it comes down to WAF as well. She knows how it works and switching to something else requires a new learning curve for the wife so.. I'm avoiding that as long as possible.

Sure WMC is old.. It's long in the tooth and not supported (well). But It works still. I started a subscription with Schedules Direct and can cancel it at any time.. and really.. What's $25.00/year for accurate guide data? It was a no brainer when I switched.

I, like a lot of us here are waiting for the "next best thing" to come along.. I don't think the shift from traditional ways of viewing TV to new things like streaming options have all gotten figured out 100% yet and I'm not sure what I would move to from WMC at this point.

I've looked into lots of options. Cutting the cord, getting a Silicon Dust OTA tuner and a Nvidia Shield and going that route have crossed my mind. The rising cost of Cable TV has had me considering this more lately. I don't watch a lot of Live TV. I record some shows and we use Netflix at the moment.

I use my HTPC for a lot more than TV recording as well. It's my WMC, Gaming (Steam), and Plex Media Server/Player too.

I'm waiting a bit longer to see how this all plays out at Silicon Dust.. I'm not a fan of their DVR solution and with Gary's EPG123 I don't have to rely on MS to keep providing guide data after they give up support on WMC in Win 8.1. I'll probably use it until there is either a better option to move to or it just doesn't work anymore. Unless my cable bill goes up again and I finally get fed up and cut the cord and only do internet through them.

Time will tell..
newfiend~
Last edited by newfiend on Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post#18 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:10 am

newfiend wrote:
john321 wrote:
newfiend wrote:I switched last year finally to EPG123.. When the guide data ran out and a fix from MS didn't look like it was much of a priority at MS. I gave up on waiting on them to fix it.

Lets face facts.. WMC is running on borrowed time. It's supposed to be supported but honestly WMC is not a priority at MS. Guide data issues continue to happen and will continue to happen.

Do yourself a favor. If you're going to continue to use WMC at all just bite the bullet and pay the $25.00/year and switch to EPG123. It's the best move I have made with WMC in some time.

The guide data is better, Accurate and always there, Images are better and Gary keeps updating the application and adding to it. It's fairly easy to install and get up and running.

Sure.. We had free guide data for a long time but it's just not worth free if it sucks and there is a better paid option that honestly isn't that expensive when you consider all the headaches it removes!
newfiend~

Hi Curt!

May I ask why you didn't switch to the Silicondust DVR solution instead of camping on WMC and using a 3rd party EPG provider?

EDIT:

I'm not kidding here. I really want to know. I am seriously thinking about switching to the SD DVR... even though it STILL doesn't support recording DRM content.

I am on Comcast... and my Showtime and HBO channels are DRM... with H.264 encoding... so WMC will NOT play the recordings. I am forced to use the Showtime and HBO app on my Roku in order to watch the content on Showtime and HBO.

I am starting to believe that I would be no worse-off if I was using the SD DVR. At least with the SD DVR, I would get better GUIDE data, right???

I can easily load Win10 on my existing HTPC, and I have no objection to buying a few Xbox One S systems... and/or building some mini-ITX Win10 systems... to be clients... instead of my current fleet of Xbox 360 systems.

At this point, I think it is time to move forward with new software, and new(er) hardware.

Am I missing something here?


Hey John,
The reason I didn't switch to SD's DVR is for a few reasons. I have Ceton Tuners installed still, My setup still works at the moment for what I need. I don't subscribe to HBO etc. so I don't have any issues with Comcast and .h264 like others have. Also it comes down to WAF as well. She knows how it works and switching to something else requires a new learning curve for the wife so.. I'm avoiding that as long as possible.

Sure WMC is old.. It's long in the tooth and not supported (well). But It works still. I started a subscription with Schedules Direct and can cancel it at any time.. and really.. What's $25.00/year for accurate guide data? It was a no brainer when I switched.

I like a lot of us here are waiting for the "next best thing" to come along.. I don't think the shift from traditional ways of viewing TV to new things like streaming options have all gotten figured out 100% yet and I'm not sure what I would move to from WMC at this point.

I've looked into lots of options. Cutting the cord, getting a Silicon Dust OTA tuner and a Nvidia Shield and going that route have crossed my mind. The rising cost of Cable TV has had me considering this more lately. I don't watch a lot of Live TV. I record some shows and we use Netflix at the moment.

I use my HTPC for a lot more than TV recording as well. It's my WMC, Gaming (Steam), and Plex Media Server/Player too.

I'm waiting a bit longer to see how this all plays out at Silicon Dust.. I'm not a fan of their DVR solution and with Gary's EPG123 I don't have to rely on MS to keep providing guide data after they give up support on WMC in Win 8.1. I'll probably use it until there is either a better option to move to or it just doesn't work anymore. Unless my cable bill goes up again and I finally get fed up and cut the cord and only do internet through them.

Time will tell..
newfiend~

My Cable bill is over $100 on a promo for Spectrum Gold and I'm currently fighting issues with DRM Playback and Driver errors on my HTPC. Although WMC, especially with epg123 enhancements, is still the best "dyi" DVR around I'm about ready to cut my bill by going streaming and OTA with Emby and ShieldTV.

Streaming options are getting pretty good and we're currently testing YoutubeTV, SlingTV and DirecTV Now (mainly for the free Amazon FireTV 4K with one month paid DirecTV Now deal right now / may set up another account for another one of the three months for free Apple TV). This can be had for $35 to $60 a month which is a pretty huge savings and Emby DVR on Shield is pretty slick but not quite as user friendly as WMC.

If I don't get this resolved soon I either am looking at a fresh installation or recovery at least and there's been a few changes to Emby Server since my last restore point backup that I'll need to replicate, taking time.

Thing is, is that our viewing habits have changed and we don't watch much LiveTV or even RecordedTV anymore anyhow.

At any rate, I've been using epg123 and Schedules Direct for a couple years now. Seeing all the guide data issues in the other threads would most certainly have moved us to something else by now.

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Post#19 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:25 am

Call me nuts but newer software actually looks a bit dated compared to WMC, if you know how to theme and modify it. There are some really nice looking Kodi etc. builds out there but I think WMC can look just as good as most others in stock form. I use emby and I like it a lot but its best features only look better in WMC, and I'm not a fan of flat graphics, which seems to be what most media centers are using now. I still like the glassy effects of WIndows seven, and WMC.
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Post#20 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:44 am

jachin99 wrote:Call me nuts but newer software actually looks a bit dated compared to WMC, if you know how to theme and modify it. There are some really nice looking Kodi etc. builds out there but I think WMC can look just as good as most others in stock form. I use emby and I like it a lot but its best features only look better in WMC, and I'm not a fan of flat graphics, which seems to be what most media centers are using now. I still like the glassy effects of WIndows seven, and WMC.
Not nuts but spot on!

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