Official: No WMC in Win 10

Discussion of getting WMC to work on Windows 10 (unsupported)
LuckyDay

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Re: Official: No WMC in Win 10

#221

Post by LuckyDay » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:53 pm

mdavej wrote:
mike_ekim wrote:What new Windows 10 features and updated apps were you looking forward to using "along side WMC"? Just curious. So far I haven't seen anything new in Windows 10 that I would want to add to my HTPC, but maybe there is something I missed. If I were to build, for example, a Kodi box is there something specific to Windows 10 that I might want?
I've asked the same question in other threads, and all I get is "DirectX 12". Seems many HTPC users also game on their machines and simply cannot live with DirectX 12. It is apparently so awesome that it's worth losing WMC over.
It is a pretty big deal for gamers, although I wouldn't go so far as to say it's worth losing WMC on a HTPC over.

The major releases of DirectX only happen about every 5-6 years. In this case, DX12 is expected to give existing hardware (so the video card that you already own) up to a 25% performance increase in many current games. That's a big deal for gamers when video cards can run in the hundreds of dollars and extending their lifespan is important.

As has been suggested before, gamers like me could just build another PC, but that's not ideal, and things like dual booting don't do much to help the wife's happiness level with the HTPC setup.

sbaeder

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#222

Post by sbaeder » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:19 pm

But also remember, that even after "official" EOL, it will still work about as good as it does now. Yes, you will have to fiddle with guide data imports, etc. But still possible...and heck in 5 more years (i.e. 2020), who knows what will be happening for sure...Not me!

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#223

Post by zambine » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:47 pm

mdavej wrote:
zambine wrote:Are there any hurdles with WMC on Win 8 vs Win 7 besides the removal of the auto-launch at startup feature?
Since you're in IT, I assume you already know that Win 8 has no start menu, so is much more difficult to navigate (outside of WMC) without a keyboard than Win 7. Also, Win 8 only works with Xbox 360 extenders, whereas Win 7 works with all extenders. I personally wouldn't wish Win 8 on my worst enemy. I ran it on my HTPC for a few months, but ultimately re-installed Win 7.

Why are you compelled to upgrade now, on the eve of the Win 10 launch, rather 5 years from now when Win 7 EOL actually occurs? Could you not just buy a Win 8 license today and keep it on the shelf until you absolutely have to use it?

Keep in mind that business have vastly different security needs than home users. You and your family probably know not to visit questionable websites or open suspicious emails, whereas many business users may not. Plus the loss to a business can be huge, so they have to be very conservative. Your risk of anything bad happening to even an unsupported OS in your home, on the other hand, is extremely low. Many WMC users don't run any anti-virus software at all because the risk is practically non-existent when you use it like an appliance.
Very good points mdave. I do have a nice wireless keyboard for my setup and I have found online if you put the a WMC shortcut in the "Start Up" folder in Win 8 it is supposed to launch automatically at start up. I have Win 8 on my main gaming PC and a laptop so I am used to the navigation issues. I also only have Xbox 360 extenders but it would be nice if Ceton or someone else came out with another extender worth owning over a 360 and it would be nice to have that option with Win 7.

I know the chance of security issues is remote but I am somewhat paranoid from working where I do seeing China and others international groups constantly attacking. Hacker groups will undoubtedly start working on security loop holes in Win 7 as soon as it's EOL'd because they know the holes will never be filled and presumably millions of people will still be using it.

Based on your comments and others, for now, I have purchased a Win 8 Pro upgrade license for $40 bucks and will sit on it as long as I can. The fact that my HTPC works seamlessly right now and that it would be a huge pain to re-do all my recordings/guide settings makes me really not want to change anything at the moment. Thanks for all the informative comments!

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#224

Post by steveo_in_sd » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:05 pm

Not to cause you any distress, zambine, but you are aware that in addition to a W8.1 Pro license there is a second purchase "Media Pack" required to have WMC, yes? This is separate from the Pro upgrade. You should also get that, as well, because I would imagine that when Microsoft takes 8.1 off the market they will stop offering the digital-only Media Pack license and you won't be able to buy it second hand or through a retailer.

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#225

Post by ajhieb » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:02 pm

zambine wrote:Very good points mdave. I do have a nice wireless keyboard for my setup and I have found online if you put the a WMC shortcut in the "Start Up" folder in Win 8 it is supposed to launch automatically at start up. I have Win 8 on my main gaming PC and a laptop so I am used to the navigation issues. I also only have Xbox 360 extenders but it would be nice if Ceton or someone else came out with another extender worth owning over a 360 and it would be nice to have that option with Win 7.

I know the chance of security issues is remote but I am somewhat paranoid from working where I do seeing China and others international groups constantly attacking. Hacker groups will undoubtedly start working on security loop holes in Win 7 as soon as it's EOL'd because they know the holes will never be filled and presumably millions of people will still be using it.

Based on your comments and others, for now, I have purchased a Win 8 Pro upgrade license for $40 bucks and will sit on it as long as I can. The fact that my HTPC works seamlessly right now and that it would be a huge pain to re-do all my recordings/guide settings makes me really not want to change anything at the moment. Thanks for all the informative comments!
To reiterate what mjdave said, businesses have vastly different security needs and risks than home users. The vast majority of security holes and exploits involve user activity, specifically activity that involves internet browsing and email. Those a activities that typically can't be eliminated in a business environment. However they can be eliminated on a dedicated HTPC. Did you ever surf the internet or open email on your old cable DVR? Of course not. There is no need to do that on an HTPC and it can very easily be stopped. Not to mention the vast, vast majority of active attacks out there are aimed at businesses. Unless you're port-forwarding on your router to your HTPC, the risk of security breach on a non-surfing computer is practically zero.

I also don't think you'll see any sort of spike in security exploits in Win7 after it's EOL'ed. Hackers are looking for the path of least resistance that yields the most results. Hackers are always going to be targeting the most popular OSes, not necessarily the least secure. And by the EOL all of the low-hanging-fruit exploits should be patched in Win7.

If you're worried about WAF, then keep what you have if it is working well, uninstall your browsers, and any email clients and it should be reasonably secure.

adam1991

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#226

Post by adam1991 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:04 pm

Yet not awesome enough for them to build a whole new Win10 rig.

They need to accept the facts that have been handed down: WMC is a great part of their lives, and to continue running it means staying on their current OS. Win10 has features they desperately want, and to run it alongside WMC means running Win10 and WMC on different hardware--one setup for WMC, and one setup for Win10.

Acceptance of reality apparently doesn't come easily to a bunch of people in the world.

[Moderator note: off topic posts split here---> http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 831#p90831]

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#227

Post by Sinkers21 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:41 am

How will I be able to continue watching TV on my Dell XPS l702x that came with a TV viewing card. Windows 10 will delete the Media Centre on installation.
Are there any free work-arounds for this???

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#228

Post by TheOsburnFamil » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:24 pm

Sinkers21 wrote:How will I be able to continue watching TV on my Dell XPS l702x that came with a TV viewing card. Windows 10 will delete the Media Centre on installation.
Are there any free work-arounds for this???
I just upgraded a Win8.1 Pro with MediaCenter PC to Windows 10 (it wasn't a "TV" MediaCenter)... I can confirm that IF you have MediaCenter, it will NOT auto-install and wipe it out. It will force you to click a button acknowledging it will go away.

And yes, it removes it.
Matt O. ...tivo what? ...dish dvr--uh... huh? ...cable dvr fees--you're kidding, right?

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#229

Post by LuckyDay » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:41 pm

Sinkers21 wrote:How will I be able to continue watching TV on my Dell XPS l702x that came with a TV viewing card. Windows 10 will delete the Media Centre on installation.
Are there any free work-arounds for this???
It is free not to upgrade to windows 10.

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#230

Post by adam1991 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:41 pm

Sinkers21 wrote:How will I be able to continue watching TV on my Dell XPS l702x that came with a TV viewing card. Windows 10 will delete the Media Centre on installation.
Are there any free work-arounds for this???
Yes.

Don't install Windows 10.

No charge.

richard1980

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#231

Post by richard1980 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:11 am

Or if you just can't bear to be without your precious, you can install Windows 10 and use a free alternative to WMC...provided there is a free alternative that works with your tuner.

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#232

Post by ruff_hi » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:09 pm

richard1980 wrote:Or if you just can't bear to be without your precious, you can install Windows 10 and use a free alternative to WMC...provided there is a free alternative that works with your tuner.
Free alternatives to WMC ... such as?

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#233

Post by DavidinCT » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:45 pm

ruff_hi wrote:
richard1980 wrote:Or if you just can't bear to be without your precious, you can install Windows 10 and use a free alternative to WMC...provided there is a free alternative that works with your tuner.
Free alternatives to WMC ... such as?
Depending on how you use WMC, if you use cablecard with protected channels, there is not another option right now, Even the HDR beta software in it's current state does not support protected content YET. If you just use some OTA tuners, other type of addons, then there are other options out there (nothing else as expandable or dynamic as Media center tho).

Our only options here if you WANT or NEED to run Windows 10 is to keep slamming Microsoft on Twitter using the hash tag #WindowsMediaCenter and EVERYONE needs to do it, then do a search for the hash tag and Re-Tweet every one you can find.

Or Wait till the hackers get involved. The subsystem in Windows 10 is capable of running Windows Media Center but, WMC does a check at the kernel level to see if can run, so, IF you could get it to install, it would not run (I did this myself) an expert needs to patch the files in WMC to block the kernel check and it should be able to be hacked in and run. There are other aspects of WMC that could cause problems like playready and other components that could cause problems, even more for cablecard users. Time will tell on this one, it might not even be possible with cablecard support.

So, bark or wait.... I think we should all bark while we are waiting, at least I have been, Look up my tweets @TheCoolDave
-Dave
Twitter @TheCoolDave

Windows Media Center certified and WMC MVP 2010 - 2012

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#234

Post by Scallica » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:23 pm

ruff_hi wrote:
richard1980 wrote:Or if you just can't bear to be without your precious, you can install Windows 10 and use a free alternative to WMC...provided there is a free alternative that works with your tuner.
Free alternatives to WMC ... such as?
Kodi (formerly known as XBMC) works with the HRHomeRun products, although copy-protected channels are not supported.
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ruff_hi

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#235

Post by ruff_hi » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:27 pm

Thanks for the responses. I have a ceton 6x card in my PC ... so it seems that I might be running a duel boot for a while.

I'm also looking for a media server for my home network ... current front runner is PLEX but I may go XBMC / Kodi. I'll use this for locally hosted movies (and recorded TV shows if I can get it up and running).

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#236

Post by mdavej » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:07 pm

ruff_hi wrote:
richard1980 wrote:Or if you just can't bear to be without your precious, you can install Windows 10 and use a free alternative to WMC...provided there is a free alternative that works with your tuner.
Free alternatives to WMC ... such as?
This wiki has always had a pretty comprehensive list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... e_packages

The upcoming SD DVR software will probably be your best bet, although not completely free. They still have a long way to go.

Why are you compelled to upgrade to an OS that removes such an important application? This a very interesting psychological phenomenon that I'd like to understand. Is it because people just get bored with the older interfaces? Is the desire for something different and new so strong that it doesn't matter what features are missing? What's the limit of how non-functional it can be? If it couldn't run Word, would you still upgrade, for example?

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#237

Post by ruff_hi » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:39 pm

mdavej wrote:Why are you compelled to upgrade to an OS that removes such an important application? This a very interesting psychological phenomenon that I'd like to understand. Is it because people just get bored with the older interfaces? Is the desire for something different and new so strong that it doesn't matter what features are missing? What's the limit of how non-functional it can be? If it couldn't run Word, would you still upgrade, for example?
I'm not compelled. I am contemplating an upgrade. At present, there is something amiss with my Win7 install (and / or apps). About 1 in 3 reboots removes all of my gadgets and is also re-arranges my desktop icons. I currently have a second SSD that I have reinstalling win7 on ... but I am finding it difficult (read: find available time) to reload all of the apps that I have added over the years. I was thinking of imaging my current win7 (and all of the apps) to the new SSD and then upgrading that to Win10 ... hoping that the instability would (magically) go away.

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#238

Post by richard1980 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:59 pm

mdavej wrote:This a very interesting psychological phenomenon that I'd like to understand.
Some people are addicted to having the latest (insert something here...OS, hardware, phone, etc.), which I would call psychological. But for many people, it is pure ignorance. Many people are conditioned to believe that they are required to have the latest OS. Additionally, there are a lot of people that thing that if they don't have the latest OS, something bad will happen. Their computer won't work anymore, or they'll get a virus, or somebody will hack into their computer, etc.

I've said it many times, the average computer user has no idea how to actually use a computer. They might be able to author an Office document, or check their email, or browse the web, but they don't know how to truly use the computer. That's why things like Geek Squad exist and are very successful. That's also why smaller computer repair shops stay in business. Those business models are only successful because they do what the average user can't do...things that most of the people here would find trivial.

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#239

Post by adam1991 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:12 am

It sounds like you equate "use a computer" with "can build one, can repair one". Nothing could be further from the truth.

Back in the Model T days, drivers had to also be mechanics. But now you don't know or care squat about what's going on under the hood and in the wheel wells. Does that mean you "don't know how to use a car"?

That's ridiculous. Stop being so snobbish about "well, you're not USING a computer because you can't build one". Apple would disagree, of course. They're the very rich company they are because of all their users. Yes, users.

Richard, you use a refrigerator every day. Oh, wait--by your argument, you don't really know how to use one, right?

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#240

Post by richard1980 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:36 am

adam1991 wrote:It sounds like you equate "use a computer" with "can build one, can repair one".
Not at all. For your amusement:

"The icons on my desktop used to be arranged just how I wanted them, but now they are arranged alphabetically, and it won't let me move the icons around. What do I do?"
"The bar at the bottom is gone. How do I get it back?"
"The bar that was at the bottom is now on the side. How do I get it back to the bottom?"
"I can't find my file I was working on. Where is it?....I don't know what it's called."
"This blue screen came out of nowhere. I think I need a new computer."
"My email is broken. Oh, I have to be connected to the internet?"
"My Outlook says page not found when I go to the website."
"My Outlook is Firefox."
"I have Office Vista."
"I have Windows 2007."
"My web browser is Windows."
"Double click with the left button or the right button?"
"I don't see File....no, it's not there....nothing happens when I push ALT. Oh wait, now I see it."
"I didn't get your email...no, it's not in my spam folder, I don't have one." 20 minutes later: "Oh, I found your email...it was in my spam folder."
"This thing popped up and told me my computer was infected, so I put in my credit card, but it still says it's infected."
"It says to upload a file but I don't know how to do that."
"When I press download it asks me if I want to run or save. Which should I do?"
"How do I uninstall it?"
"It's asking me for my password. Should I enter my password?"
"If I walk away from the computer for a bit, when I come back my screen is off. I have to move the mouse to get it to come on again. How do I make it stay on? Do I need a new screen?"

I could go on for a while about all the stupid things I've heard. But I'll wrap it up with my personal favorite: "The printer isn't working. It's not punching holes in the paper anymore." (Hint: The printer never punched holes in the paper.)

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