Official: No WMC in Win 10

[noslack]

That's fine if you feel that way. But doesn't mean everyone else does, or should (and obviously don't), is all.

Really Ed? Shouldn't and obviously don't? Is that what you would recommend to your friend? Recording one show while watching one live, what kind of BS is that? Knowledge is power and maybe these people should be informed that there are much better alternatives to something so archaic as that. Wait, i forgot, you are all knowing, all powerful and know exactly what people want, sorry, "eats popcorn".

[STC]

Could we please keep the rants to PM off the public board.

[Ed]

Really Ed? Shouldn't and obviously don't?

Correct. It's always nice to keep your options open. And like I said, that is evident by the fact of how well the Kickstarter is doing; along with the fact people with Ceton gear have already publicly stated they have donated to it and/or look forward to it.

Is that what you would recommend to your friend?

Yes. I would make them aware though that all the options are 1) keep using WMC in 7/8.1 2) The SD Kickstarter 3)Tivo 4)Petition Ceton to come out with something, if they don't wanna keep using WMC in an older OS and already have Ceton gear; and don't feel like reinvesting in something else

Recording one show while watching one live, what kind of BS is that?

You can use mutliple tuners with the SD software. Either 1 or more Prime 3 tuner CableCard tuners; or one or more of the Connect or Extend 2 tuner ATSC/QAM tuners. Or any combination thereof. You can end up with as many tuners as you want. I'm not sure why you feel you are limited in that regard.

You are coming across as having some personal axe to grind; and people should only care about/want solutions that are suitable to you. I wouldn't call that making people informed

Edit: Like STC just posted (just saw), if you want to continue, then PM me I guess.

[noslack]

I am very sorry if it seems like I have an ax to grind, that is not my intention, only that everything I seem to say is not taken as it was meant, all I am saying is that as of now, SD has no way to record protected content on their Kickstarter DVR, and most of all, if not all HD content is protected, also, there is a limit to the amount of slots that people have to put tuner cards in, so just to get 6 tuners you would need three slots, but yes Ed, can't we all just get along?

[mdavej]

They said they did have a way. It's one of the core features they plan to deliver. Where are you hearing otherwise?

Also, none of the HD content in my cable system is copy once except for premiums (HBO, etc. ). That goes for FIOS, Charter and some others.

[TeddyR]

As someone with both a 6 Tuner Ceton ETH6 and an Echo sitting gathering dust in the closet..

I do hope that for those that have Ceton devices that Ceton may rethink the Q now that WMC will not be in Windows 10... Even though I also have 3 Primes + 2 SD DVR compatible tuners (+2 non DVR compatible SD tuners)... I do believe that there should be SOME alternatives available in the market for the market to grow (and for the competitors to push each other to develop better/more features)....

[richard1980]

They said they did have a way. It's one of the core features they plan to deliver. Where are you hearing otherwise?

They said they have a plan to play protected content ("We have a plan to improve Windows and Android playback performance, support playing protected content, improve seek control, and other planned UI improvements."). As of the time the project page was authored, they did not have a way to record protected content (in the "Where we are at today - Recording" section: "There are some key things to do. In particular recording protected content and preventing duplicates from recording.")

[Ed]

They said they have a plan to play protected content ("We have a plan to improve Windows and Android playback performance, support playing protected content, improve seek control, and other planned UI improvements.").

Also, I'm making the assumption they mean 'playback previously recorded protected content'; as you can already play protected content LIVE on Android/Android TV (not sure about Windows w/ the View app) with their existing software/hardware. For clarification. Or, they could mean "Our plan is to do it the way we currently are" - lol.

Edit: it also could apply to playback in any/all forms on platforms they are not yet available on/will be looking into. Though again, I'm making the assumption they would handle live the way they do in their existing implementation on currently available offerings.

[noslack]

"Where we are at today – Recording:

The DVR records. You can search for any show by name or bring up a list of the most popular shows and hit Record Series. The DVR records the latest season, or every episode if you tell it to.

Multiple HDHomeRun tuners are supported including mixing multiple sources (for example ATSC and CableCARD). The recording engine will try all tuners capable of receiving the show, trying favorite channels first, then HD channels, then SD channels.

Padding of start and end times work. For back-to-back recordings on the same channel the recording engine shares the same tuner for both recordings.

Auto recovery from an interrupted recording works. The recording engine will find another tuner and keep recording.

The recording engine has been verified on Windows, Mac, Linux-x86, Linux-ARM, and Linux-PowerPC. We have NAS boxes recording 24/7 with 5 popular models under test.

There are some key things to do. In particular recording protected content and preventing duplicates from recording."

This is from the KIckstarter page under the title above and NO, it is not for previously recorded content.

[RyC]

Protected content recording is the big missing piece that they haven't said definitely whether or not it'll be supported. I like watching HBO at a later time.

[richard1980]

Also, I'm making the assumption they mean 'playback previously recorded protected content';

That assumption is incorrect. The only possible reason why they can record copy-freely content but not copy-protected content is because they don't have a license for DRM that can be used for recordings. Well, guess what is required to play previously-recorded protected content?

Edit: it also could apply to playback in any/all forms on platforms they are not yet available on/will be looking into.

I think that is the most appropriate way to interpret what they said.

[Ed]

Also, I'm making the assumption they mean 'playback previously recorded protected content';

That assumption is incorrect. The only possible reason why they can record copy-freely content but not copy-protected content is because they don't have a license for DRM that can be used for recordings. Well, guess what is required to play previously-recorded protected content?

Nah, I might have misspoke - by 'previously recorded', I meant 'any recordings made with the app' - because as I said - it handles Live protected content, regardless of flag, fine (which is in use by users today on at least Android/Android TV, maybe Windows too) at this moment.

Although also, I guess in hindsight playback would apply to playing something back, not playing something live ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So just disregard I suppose, lol.

[mdavej]

On their main kickstarter page they say, "And yes, it even works with protected content". That sentence is the only reason I donated to them. Everything else can be done today with other programs. Who cares where they are today? The whole point of the project is to deliver new functionality, including protected content. Are we to give up on them because they didn't finish the project before they started? This whole thread makes less and less sense with every post.

[RyC]

"There are some key things to do. In particular recording protected content and preventing duplicates from recording."

I'm not giving up, I want them to succeed, but I'm not holding my breath, at least until they provide more info on how they're going to do that.

[Ed]

On their main kickstarter page they say, "And yes, it even works with protected content". That sentence is the only reason I donated to them. Everything else can be done today with other programs. Who cares where they are today? The whole point of the project is to deliver new functionality, including protected content. Are we to give up on them because they didn't finish the project before they started? This whole thread makes less and less sense with every post.

I'm with you. I'm optimistic it will happen; and even hold it to a high degree of probability of coming to fruition the way they intend and we want (for Android/Windows at least - I don't care enough about the other platforms to form an opinion on). I think others are just trying to point out that at this very moment, it's not guaranteed (and everyone is going to hold it to a different degree of probability) - the same way everyone hopes guide data for WMC will be provided until the end of support for Windows 8.1; but isn't guaranteed either.

[cwinfield]

Well it couldn't turn out any worse than the echo beta could it?

[RyC]

Well they were pretty much pilloried on their own forums when the Prime took longer to come to market than they said (I'm sensing a pattern here...)

Plus they admit it themselves, they haven't had much of a software focus so yes there are a few places where it can go wrong. Hopefully it doesn't though!

[TheOsburnFamil]

The difference I see between Ceton and their Echo/Prime rollout vs this new Kickstarter campaign is that Ceton relied on another company for their product to work. SilliconDust is saying, "screw that-- we're not going to rely on anyone but for our own CableLABS certification" (presumably)

[Brenowitz]

I emailed Ceton about possible solutions to the Win-10 thing. This is the reply (note the final sentence/hint)....

"Regarding alternatives to Windows Media Center. It's not a question of Ceton supporting these other DVR platforms. All CableCARD tuners are required to use the DRI specification from CableLabs. This freely-available specification allows DVR software packages to control the tuner and access copy-freely content. To access Copy Once content the DVR software must implement a CableLabs-approved form of copy protection, typically WM-DRM from Microsoft.

Windows Media Center has been the only product which has done this to date. Which is why MythTV, Sage TV, XMBC, etc do not support protected content. These other software packages are free to implement this, and no development or support is required from Ceton to enable protected content in DVR software which comply with the CableLabs specification. These software developers would have to work with the encryption vendors to implement the required encryption in their products.

Ceton is continuing to develop new innovative platforms for the delivery of both audio and video into consumers’ homes. With that said, we are not able to discuss our future developments at this time.

Thank you,
Ceton Support"

[cwinfield]

Well Ceton also had Freescale bite them in the ass. With that said Silicon Dust is relying on Qnap and Western Digital as far as their NAS, they are also relying on google for android tv and it's adoption as a set top box is concerned but the point is moot. I will likely contribute $350 soon and take it for a ride to see how it pans out.