Cable Card setup?

Discussion of getting WMC to work on Windows 10 (unsupported)
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sjlcjl

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Cable Card setup?

#1

Post by sjlcjl » Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:10 am

I've read a bunch of threads here and looked a bunch of different installers...
Some say nothing works past 15xx and others say it works just great...

I've been a WMC user since it first came out and I'm tired of using old hardware..
Is there a way to get fully functional WMC on Win 10/11 and me use my Cable Cards in my HDHR Primes?

Tried installing with the old HDHR drivers from 2015 but WMC says no tuners found...

Thanks!

technodevotee

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#2

Post by technodevotee » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:34 am

The last version of Windows 10 that supports cable cards in WMC is 15 because MS removed WMC and the required DRM mechanism after that.

The problem now is not to do with WMC, but because there appears to be no way of installing the required DRM mechanism on later versions of Windows.

Windows 11 definitely does not support cable cards in WMC.

JanSiegrist

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#3

Post by JanSiegrist » Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:21 pm

Thanks for the reply but if the issue is in Win10 versions after 15xx how is it that other software such as Plex, NextPVR, and even the HDHomeRun app run just fine on Win10 and 11 and can see my HDHomeRun Primes with cablecard? There has to be a patch or registry hack that will allow WMC to see the prime tuners - or perhaps install them from registry settings taken from a Win7 machine. It's been years since I've been involved in this kind of stuff but I'm going to take a peek and see what happens. There's gotta be a way...
Regarding DRM you may not get HBO to work but everything else should go - at least for Verizon Fios in RI.
Jan

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#4

Post by technodevotee » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:14 am

The information I linked to in my previous response was rather simplistic wasn't it.

My understanding is that there are a number of issues:

Firstly, WMC doesn't know about HD Homerun tuners and requires a WMC service that was part of the HDHomerun software until SiliconDust removed the functionality (some time after 2015) so you would need to backdate that software and ensure that the WMC service is running to be able to see the tuners in WMC.

Other software works with HDHR because it knows about HDHR tuners.

Secondly, WMP and WMC do not natively support the DRM system used by cable card but rely on WMDRM, which was present until Windows 10 version1511, when Microsoft removed WMC. So even if you can detect the tuners in the HDHomerun, copy protected media won't work.

Other software that works with protected media has its own DRM mechanism built in and doesn't rely on WMDRM.

user patrick0525 did a writeup about getting HDHR prime tuners working in Windows 10 here: viewtopic.php?p=135021#p135021

Note that he used WMC V13 but other versions may also work although many of the workarounds in newer versions are not required for old versions of Windows 10 and may cause more issues than they solve.

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#5

Post by JanSiegrist » Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:18 pm

Thanks for the info - so you say the issue is partly with HDHR - holding back on a service? So how is it that my HDHR Flex 4k (OTA) tuners are seen in WMC and seem to function Ok? Do they not need a service or some kind of trigger provided by HDHR to be detected in WMC?
My end-game is to cut-the-cord - when I do that I'll still have streaming services that will give me HBO and anything else I deem absolutely necessary that is DRM.
Until I do make that final choice I'd like to keep using my 2 HDHR cable-card tuners.
In reviewing the registry of a Win7 WMC installation I see many many items relating to the HDHR cable-card tuners that are not in the Win10 registry. There has to be some 'trigger' that kicks the HDHR cablecard tuner detection.

I'm still kind of a 'newb' here - how do i see the viewtopic you mentioned?
thanks
Jan

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#6

Post by JanSiegrist » Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:06 pm

Ok, figured out how to just search for the topic- as just something to try - I removed HDHR software from the Win10 machine and re-installed the version of HDHR mentioned in the link from 2015, then ran the WMC TV Setup TV signal again, it still only see's the 4 HDHR Flex 4K (OTA) tuners - not the cablecard ones.
Since it is a Dell box I'm working with I may try the Win10 install at 15xx if I can still find one. I still think there has to be a better way... I'm going to continue digging some.
Again, thanks for the info.
Jan

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garyan2

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#7

Post by garyan2 » Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:14 pm

technodevotee wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:14 amSecondly, WMP and WMC do not natively support the DRM system used by cable card but rely on WMDRM, which was present until Windows 10 version1511, when Microsoft removed WMC. So even if you can detect the tuners in the HDHomerun, copy protected media won't work.

Other software that works with protected media has its own DRM mechanism built in and doesn't rely on WMDRM.
This is the main takeaway from @technodevotee. The SiliconDust software can see the CableCARD tuners because the software handles what is needed for DRM. WMDRM, as part of the OS which Windows Media Player (WMC) used for DRM was removed from Win10 after 1511. So the only way to use Win10 with CableCARD is to use Win10 1511 with HDHR Windows drivers from that timeframe (20150826). Note that you cannot install the latest windows drivers of the HDHR software on Win10 1511 due to it being targeted to .NET Framework 4.8 which is not compatible.
- Gary
Keeping WMC alive beyond January 2020. https://garyan2.github.io

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#8

Post by Burger23 » Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:22 pm

Complete link to user patrick0525 writeup about getting HDHR prime tuners with cablecards working in Windows 10 here: viewtopic.php?p=135021#p135021

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#9

Post by JanSiegrist » Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:35 pm

Gary - thanks for the info - so it's looking like there is no-way to use the latest HDHR software and have WMC see the cablecard tuners. I still think there has to be 'something' that triggers the cablecard tuner detection. I guess it could be the WMDRM but I'm not 100% sold on that since other software installs seeing the cablecard tuners - which don't play DRM channels. The only DRM channel I'd miss is HBO but I've other ways to get to that.
Something completely different: Will your WMC installer install WMC on a Win8 Enterprise machine? Also in your expert opinion what is the best Win ver to install WMC on?
Are you the same Gary that give us Schedules Direct ? Great product have used it for years now.
Thanks again
Jan

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#10

Post by garyan2 » Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:11 pm

I don't think WMC from the installer will work on Enterprise since most Enterprise editions don't include media related software/decoders. It may, but I don't know. Personal opinion is Win7 is the best simply because WMC is part of the OS. Win8 needs the WMC installed separately. Win8 has the advantage of WMC automatically scanning VHF OTA channels whereas Win7 will require you to add them manually, otherwise I would say they are pretty even.

On your Win10, you can try to install the HDHR software from 2015 to see if WMC will then be able to detect the tuners. Did you install Digital Cable Advisor and PlayReady?

And yes, I am the creator of EPG123.
- Gary
Keeping WMC alive beyond January 2020. https://garyan2.github.io

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#11

Post by JanSiegrist » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:30 pm

Gary - again thanks for the info, I did try the 2015 HDHR software install but I did not install digital Cable Advisor and PlayReady. It saw the HDHR Flex 4K OTA but not the Cable-Card tuners. I may try it again with installing Digital Cable Advisor and PlayReady.
When trying different configurations I did however notice that once HDHR software was removed - if you attempted to setup TV signals WMC saw nothing - only after installing HDHR (from 2015) did it see the 4 HDHR Flex 4K OTA tuners. So there is something that HDHR does to let WMC know about the OTA tuners. I may look at the registry and/or files of a Win7 machine that has just had the HDHR software installed but not WMC and see what I can see vs a Win10 install.
Nice to be retired with nothing to do :)

I'm going to try some other things too.
Again - thanks for the info.
Jan

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#12

Post by technodevotee » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:51 pm

Something I had forgotten about HDHR Prime tuners and have just read states that PlayReady 3 breaks OCUR (Open Cable Uni-directional Receiver) detection in WMC.
mwpeterson wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:18 pm The last version of Windows 10 on which cablecard tuners like the HDHomerun Prime worked with WMC was 1511. Specifically 10586.589, then Microsoft ended support for Playready 2.*.
When investigating this previously, I noticed there is a BDA Compatability mode option in the SiliconDust HDHomerun setup software that can be set to Windows Media Center but I guess that would only work for non DRM devices if WMDRM is not present.

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#13

Post by JanSiegrist » Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:13 am

To tech... In setting up HDHR Setup I've always had BDA Compatibility set to Windows Media Center - in my recent attempts I did say 'No' to Install Play ready - I can live without the few DRM channels. Still - it does not detect the cablecard tuners.
I've also run TunerSalad before running TV / detect signal.
There has to be something that WMC is looking for (and not finding) to trigger the cable-card tuner detection. I'm still looking...
Thanks for the input - if you think of anything else - just put it in this thread...
Jan

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#14

Post by technodevotee » Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:38 am

There's a bunch of Media Center tasks to do with OCUR in Task Scheduler.

I am certain that both Playready and WMDRM play a role in this functionality though.

I assume you have perused the threads here: viewforum.php?f=89

There was a whole load of work done on this topic back in the mists of time over on MDL that you may or may not have seen https://forums.mydigitallife.net/thread ... ves.61061/.

I followed the development of this project religiously at the time but being as we don't use cable cards or require DRM here, I never saved any stuff relevant to this particular topic. Unfortunately, swathes of the stuff on MDL has mysteriously vanished.

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