Media Center EPG: Rovi Guide Data Quality

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cycletourist

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Re: Media Center EPG: Rovi Guide Data Quality

#661

Post by cycletourist » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:25 am

Rovi is such a class act. MGMHD is playing a movie this week that WMC thinks is titled "Pope *or* Greewich Village." Naturally the details say - No Information available. Zap2It listings have it correct.

rkulagow

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#662

Post by rkulagow » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:51 am



Since Schedules Direct gets a raw feed from Gracenote (Zap2It), this is a sample of what's "behind the scenes" as raw JSON; EPG123 (which has a subforum here) uses a lot of the data, but some of it may just not "fit" given the existing WMC schema, or there's no way for it to be it displayed onscreen.

If you're not happy with twice-yearly DST issues, data quality or responsiveness, then you may wish to consider EPG123 / Schedules Direct.

Schedules Direct has an international footprint, so we can provide data outside of North America as well.

{
"programID": "MV000176140000",
"titles": [
{
"title120": "The Pope of Greenwich Village"
}
],
"descriptions": {
"description100": [
{
"descriptionLanguage": "en",
"description": "Two cousins (Eric Roberts, Mickey Rourke) rob mob in Little Italy."
}
],
"description1000": [
{
"descriptionLanguage": "en",
"description": "Cousins Paulie (Eric Roberts) and Charlie (Mickey Rourke) plan to rob a merchant in the New York City neighborhood that's home to the restaurant where they work. When their scheme results in the death of a police officer and draws the ire of the Mafia-linked businessman who was ripped off, Charlie's girlfriend (Daryl Hannah) bolts, and mob henchmen exact a brutal price from Paulie. With the mob threatening to kill them, the thieves must think fast if they intend to survive."
}
]
},
"genres": [
"Drama"
],
"keyWords": {
"Mood": [
"Brash",
"Raw",
"Wild"
],
"Time Period": [
"1980s"
],
"Theme": [
"Underdog",
"Transformation",
"Revenge",
"Adventure"
],
"Character": [
"Thief",
"Cousin",
"Waiter",
"Mafioso",
"Girlfriend",
"Police officer"
],
"Setting": [
"Greenwich Village",
"Restaurant",
"Apartment",
"Racetrack",
"Street",
"Bar"
],
"Subject": [
"Robbery",
"Ambition",
"Mafia",
"Restaurant business",
"Horse racing",
"Violence"
]
},
"contentRating": [
{
"body": "British Board of Film Classification",
"code": "15"
},
{
"body": "Motion Picture Association of America",
"code": "R"
}
],
"contentAdvisory": [
"Adult Language",
"Adult Situations",
"Violence"
],
"movie": {
"year": "1984",
"duration": 7200,
"qualityRating": [
{
"ratingsBody": "Gracenote",
"rating": "3",
"minRating": "1",
"maxRating": "4",
"increment": ".5"
}
]
},
"cast": [
{
"billingOrder": "01",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "19860",
"personId": "19860",
"name": "Eric Roberts",
"characterName": "Paulie"
},
{
"billingOrder": "02",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "1505",
"personId": "1505",
"name": "Mickey Rourke",
"characterName": "Charlie"
},
{
"billingOrder": "03",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "727",
"personId": "727",
"name": "Daryl Hannah",
"characterName": "Diane"
},
{
"billingOrder": "04",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "71250",
"personId": "71250",
"name": "Geraldine Page",
"characterName": "Mrs. Ritter"
},
{
"billingOrder": "05",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "83017",
"personId": "83017",
"name": "Kenneth McMillan",
"characterName": "Barney"
},
{
"billingOrder": "06",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "189955",
"personId": "188338",
"name": "Tony Musante",
"characterName": "Pete"
},
{
"billingOrder": "07",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "41258",
"personId": "41258",
"name": "M. Emmet Walsh",
"characterName": "Burns"
},
{
"billingOrder": "08",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "9893",
"personId": "9893",
"name": "Burt Young",
"characterName": "Bed Bug Eddie"
}
],
"crew": [
{
"billingOrder": "01",
"role": "Director",
"nameId": "60660",
"personId": "60660",
"name": "Stuart Rosenberg"
},
{
"billingOrder": "02",
"role": "Screenwriter",
"nameId": "307415",
"personId": "303421",
"name": "Vincent Patrick"
},
{
"billingOrder": "03",
"role": "Producer",
"nameId": "118872",
"personId": "118872",
"name": "Gene Kirkwood"
},
{
"billingOrder": "04",
"role": "Producer",
"nameId": "642784",
"personId": "386039",
"name": "Hawk Koch"
},
{
"billingOrder": "05",
"role": "Original Music",
"nameId": "485580",
"personId": "476705",
"name": "Dave Grusin"
},
{
"billingOrder": "06",
"role": "Cinematographer",
"nameId": "116175",
"personId": "116175",
"name": "John Bailey"
},
{
"billingOrder": "07",
"role": "Film Editor",
"nameId": "509561",
"personId": "495588",
"name": "Robert Brown"
},
{
"billingOrder": "08",
"role": "Casting",
"nameId": "440763",
"personId": "431888",
"name": "Bonnie Timmermann"
},
{
"billingOrder": "09",
"role": "Production Design",
"nameId": "145479",
"personId": "145479",
"name": "Paul Sylbert"
},
{
"billingOrder": "10",
"role": "Set Decoration",
"nameId": "478034",
"personId": "469159",
"name": "George DeTitta Sr."
},
{
"billingOrder": "11",
"role": "Costume Designer",
"nameId": "469039",
"personId": "460164",
"name": "Joseph G. Aulisi"
}
],
"entityType": "Movie",
"showType": "Feature Film",
"recommendations": [
{
"programID": "MV000320280000",
"title120": "Miller's Crossing"
},
{
"programID": "MV000320780000",
"title120": "State of Grace"
},
{
"programID": "MV001978120000",
"title120": "We Own the Night"
}
],
"hasImageArtwork": true,
"md5": "K1X9CPAr0Sa2g7v/J29dyQ"
}

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#663

Post by Space » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:57 am

I wonder how this happens. I assume the programming info is received from the networks themselves. So if both zap2it and Rovi get the same data, how does zap2it get it right?
The only thing I can think of is that zap2it verifies the info somehow before it publishes it.

rkulagow

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#664

Post by rkulagow » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:13 am

There is still a human element involved; it's much more manual than you expect. Typos still creep in, either from the provider, or at the Gracenote / Rovi level when the data is loaded. I have personal experience with a schedule from RAI Italia that was always off by one "timeslot". It turns out that the person that was cutting/pasting at the source (RAI) was always starting in the wrong row of the spreadsheet (!). When someone like Gracenote gets a schedule from a provider, the assumption is that the provider knows what they're broadcasting.

I don't have any insight into the internal procedures at Rovi, but we've been a customer of Zap2It / Gracenote for almost 10 years, so I'm pretty attuned to their process at this point. :)

And as a B2B customer of Gracenote, we have a procedure to ensure that if a schedule is wrong 7 days from now, there's a ticket system to get it fixed. If it's _really_ wrong, and it needs to get fixed _now_, there's a 24 hour hotline number we can call. The last time that happened was during Sandy Hook when the schedule needed to get changed rapidly.

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/F ... 50483.html

People are people. Mistakes happen. We try to provide a service that offers a means to get things fixed. I think we're pretty good at ACKing issues that are logged in our ticket system.

cycletourist

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#665

Post by cycletourist » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:48 am

rkulagow wrote:??????
I am baffled by your response. I was merely pointing out what I thought was an amusing weakness on Rovi's part. Not sure how they came to call "Pope of Greenwich Village," "Pope OR Greenwich Village." I found it a bit more amusing that, of course, it has to then say "no information available."

I said nothing about needing to use EPG123 and Schedules Direct. Your response reads like you were trying to sell me on Schedules Direct (promoting it here?). With DST issues now behind us, I favor the cosmic laziness principle. WMC still works well enough for me. I hate futzing with computers anymore. If it works (albeit, only just well enough), I don't fix it.

I also already know very well what Pope of Greenwich Village is. I was not requesting a detailed listing. ?
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#666

Post by 3rob3 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:12 pm

Jeez, nice way to treat someone who went out of their way to explain something to you. You complain/make fun of Rovi guide data, he explains how it can happen and gives examples, then he offers a superior alternative and you blast him for "trying to sell" you on Schedules Direct.

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STC

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#667

Post by STC » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:32 pm

Just to be clear Schedules Direct is a non-profit organization.
By the Community, for the Community. 100% Commercial Free.

Want decent guide data back? Check out EPG123

rkulagow

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#668

Post by rkulagow » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:13 pm

My pasted example was an example of how much metadata is tracked by Gracenote and by Rovi - there are almost 2 million program records in our database right now for the Gracenote data.

And "of / or" isn't that crazy a typo, because the letters are right next to each other on the keyboard. And since "or" is a valid word, it wouldn't be flagged through spell-check, as opposed to something like "The Ppoe of Freenwich Village". It's understandable how it got past Rovi, or was entered incorrectly at the source.

Anyway, the intent was more to show how complicated all of this is. If you're happy with Rovi then awesome!

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#669

Post by Space » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:53 pm

If it was entered incorrectly at the source then you would think that both Rovi and Gracenote would receive the same error; unless they send different data to each service, which would be crazy, but who knows?

If they are sent the same data, then Gracenote managed to fix it, and Rovi did not.

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#670

Post by Sammy2 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:30 pm

I didn't see that as any sort of plug for Schedules Direct. It sells itself and Rovi can kiss off. Just over two bucks a month for mounds of WAF is a no brainer for me.

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#671

Post by adam1991 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:05 am

Space wrote:The only thing to report this week is "Beyond the Tank" (ABC) 3/22 and "The Blacklist" (NBC) 3/24 are both missing ESI. "Beyond the Tank" is a new episode and "The Blacklist" is a repeat.

Note that "Beyond the Tank" replaces the canceled "Of Kings and Prophets" (after only 2 aired episodes).
The Blacklist does not come back until April 7; any entries for that show are the result of generic guide data/placeholders at the source.

Rovi.

Let's face it, WMC is walking dead with this guide data situation.

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#672

Post by Sammy2 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:13 am

adam1991 wrote:
Space wrote:The only thing to report this week is "Beyond the Tank" (ABC) 3/22 and "The Blacklist" (NBC) 3/24 are both missing ESI. "Beyond the Tank" is a new episode and "The Blacklist" is a repeat.

Note that "Beyond the Tank" replaces the canceled "Of Kings and Prophets" (after only 2 aired episodes).
The Blacklist does not come back until April 7; any entries for that show are the result of generic guide data/placeholders at the source.

Rovi.

Let's face it, WMC is walking dead with this guide data situation.
I'm not thinking that it is because my guide is plush with data for at least 3 weeks out right now.

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#673

Post by Space » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:34 am

adam1991 wrote:
Space wrote:The only thing to report this week is "Beyond the Tank" (ABC) 3/22 and "The Blacklist" (NBC) 3/24 are both missing ESI. "Beyond the Tank" is a new episode and "The Blacklist" is a repeat.

Note that "Beyond the Tank" replaces the canceled "Of Kings and Prophets" (after only 2 aired episodes).
The Blacklist does not come back until April 7; any entries for that show are the result of generic guide data/placeholders at the source.

Rovi.

Let's face it, WMC is walking dead with this guide data situation.
That's a response from Rovi? Yes, it is a placeholder, but Gracenote already had it updated with ESI on the date I posted that, Rovi did not.

Current Rovi data (roviguide.com) now has ESI for this episode. I didn't keep track how long it took for them to update this. The main issue is that they are often slow to update their listings, days slower than Gracenote.

It seems that NBC has been sending out ESI info for this show late the past couple weeks (I guess that are having a hard time deciding which repeat to replay), but Gracenote seems to update at least 2 days earlier than Rovi, and often even earlier than that (for other instances in the past).

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#674

Post by DrSmith » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:35 pm

Hey, thanks a bunch Rovi! I thought I had a batch of new Pawn Stars episodes that I could binge on. They just turned out to be episodes of Vikings. Do I need to set up a season's pass for Vikings now in order to get PS shows? Of course the 2:00AM air time for a "new episode" was a clue that something was amiss.

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#675

Post by Space » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:03 pm

DrSmith wrote:Hey, thanks a bunch Rovi! I thought I had a batch of new Pawn Stars episodes that I could binge on. They just turned out to be episodes of Vikings. Do I need to set up a season's pass for Vikings now in order to get PS shows? Of course the 2:00AM air time for a "new episode" was a clue that something was amiss.
Yeah, I had those as well (but told WMC to not record them because knew it was wrong), if the updates had not been failing for the past 3 days it probably would have been updated before airing.

Also, anticipating that this will not be fixed before the weekend, the CBS lineup for Sunday is currently starting a half hour later than it is in zap2it (at least on the East coast), so you should start recording 60 minutes/Madam Secretary/The Good Wife at 7pm and not 7:30pm.

These NEW episodes are also missing from the guide (but hopefully it will be fixed before then):

Pawn Stars (HISTORY) 3/30 10pm ET
Redneck Island (CMT) 3/31 10pm ET

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#676

Post by lostgreycells » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:24 pm

"the CBS lineup for Sunday is currently starting a half hour later than it is in zap2it (at least on the East coast)"

Fascinating! I keep thinking MSFT's servers for Rovi/WMC must be in India. Especially now since your half-hour discrepancy with WMC on the East coast corresponds with India's time zone which is a half-hour off from the rest of the world. (Although my dwindling supply of ROVI guide listings on PDT time has my listings starting correctly on the hour instead of the half-hour.)

ROVI's site, (roviguide.com) as of today has their guide going out to Friday, April 8th, and many of the incorrect listings we're encountering are correct (or have been corrected) in the guide.

So the problems we're having must lie with MSFT's inability/ unwillingness/ low priority handling in getting ROVI's guide updates to WMC users.

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#677

Post by fzy8gc » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:50 pm

FYI..."TiVo and Rovi are in talks to merge"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/annafields/ ... 16c07b41e1

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#678

Post by Space » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:24 am

There has been no new listings updates from Microsoft since 3/21, so that is why existing listings have not been corrected in WMC. It is not just new days listings that are not being downloaded, but also updates to existing listings.

The half hour issue is probably just that my local station indicated that they were going to start 30 minutes late, but then later changed that (and since no updates are coming in to WMC, it did not update the guide with the new schedule).

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#679

Post by bob_p » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:34 pm

fzy8gc wrote:FYI..."TiVo and Rovi are in talks to merge"
If that happens - will the poor Rovi data be the end of TiVo?

With WMC data no longer being updated - again - we're back to another countdown this week, waiting for Microsoft to fix the guide service (again), setting up manual recordings for all programs, migrating to EPG123 (is it ready for most of the remaining WMC users to switch over), or going to a cable/satellite DVR or TiVo. Though if Rovi buys TiVo - not sure that's going to be an attractive option, since even when WMC is working, the guide data is so bad (missed recording the finale of Black Sails on Saturday night).

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#680

Post by rmeden » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:13 pm

I don't think Rovi cares about the Tivo product at all.. they just want the patents.. Same as DirectTV and ReplayTV.

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