Attempts at Manual Guide Implementation

#41

So glorp I think you are right in the the linking of the guide data to the channel is not related to the channel ID or call sign.
It must be a script running on the db that does the work.

glorp · #42

Well, it could be. Everybody has a different set of IDs for channels because they are all independent companies and no one standardizes them. *But* probably the cablecos provide their ids to the guide providers (each cableco's set different than another) and so any given guide provider needs a common id itself for each of the channels. The guide providers (Rovi, Zap2It) would come up with different sets (which they have) but they provide both the cableco's and theirs to MS in their data packages when they are the schedule provider.

So now MS has a db of cableco id, provider id for each headend schedule's channels. It pulls that at setup when you choose headend. WMC can query the CableCARD, get the cableco id for any channel, match it to provider id and, viola channel assigned to guide listing

The issue is that when these change (i.e., new channel added or deleted) WMC must be able to redo that step without a set up. That's why I'll bet there's a flag in the data packages we get from MS that essentially says, "this listing is new or deleted or ... If it sees that flag/code when WMC actually loads the data it attempts to assign/deassign that channel by querying the tuner for a matching cableco id. It may be something unique to the data package MS provides for WMC but I'll bet they used that wholesale to delete all the old Zap2It assignments and added all the Rovi. That's how it can happen w/o a new setup. I can't see any other way for them to have done that.

#43

So would anyone with an initial Rovi pull, care to take a look inside of their xmf file perhaps?

glorp · #44

I wish I had kept mine and I could just send it to you but I'm several days past the update now.

I was looking at the MXF docs to see if I could find anything with no luck. I suspect if we knew a "friendly" at a CableCARD mfgr they could tell us if this is the right track and/or what to look for.

#45

Well I've managed to do 25 HD channels so far which are all my missus' channels. I'll try and do some each night.

Niall is there another easier way?

Niall · #46

STC wrote:Well I've managed to do 25 HD channels so far which are all my missus' channels. I'll try and do some each night.

Niall is there another easier way?

Good to hear that at least it's allowing you to import EPG's with BSEPG - so that's initial problem solved. 8)

If none of the auto-matching functions are working you might be stuck doing this manually.

Did you try editing the channels config in BSEPG and matching the channel names with the callsigns? There's a small chance the callsign<>name matching might work. You can specify all the channel info in there - such as full name, affiliate etc (so that can be customized in the BSEPG config rather than needing it to be changed in your source xmltv files). I know this is enabled in MXF imports for some tuner types (like DVB-T) - not clear what was enabled for CableCard. Another possibility might be to try and match on the channel numbers.

Also - some tips to speed up the manual config in MC (if not doing these already) -
- go in through the settings pages rather than EPG (so you have the full list of channels)
- when you get into the page which shows available channels - use your keyboard to quickly find what you need (rather than scrolling through huge list with remote). Ie. you might be able to type 'CN' etc to quickly jump to 'CNN'. I imagine pgup/down etc would work in here too.

Niall

#47

Thanks for the tips! *been using the keyboard

Earlier on in the process I reported the BSEPG import process didn't work, but it obviously did, it's just at the time there was nothing to show for it, if you follow.

I did try to automate with matching names without success. I'll try again later and report back.

Niall · #48

STC wrote:So glorp I think you are right in the the linking of the guide data to the channel is not related to the channel ID or call sign.
It must be a script running on the db that does the work.

AFIK : this is all controlled via MXF import files (so no additional scripts being run) - these tell Media Center what channels are there based on your location information / providers type selection (which is a little different to other parts of the world where Media Center manually scans your tuner to see whats coming up).

Its been a while since I debugged the US EPG download packages - but seem to remember that this tuning info is provided with each MXF update package - so that way they are able to directly match the epg listings with the expected channels (and add/remove channels as needed). If not provided each time then it definitely at least gets setup that way with the initial full package which is delivered during setup (and then the exact same provider / channel id's are used in subsequent EPG updates). I'm not sure if you can get into these anymore due to the encryption - there was a small window during the Win7/8? beta versions where security was easy to break (I think decryption key was exposed in one of the dll's or mxf files).

#49

Niall, I'm tired tonight so excuse the brief post.

I tested matching callsign again after reading your help file I went to advanced and enabled 'Use supplied match names in output' which I had omitted to do before, oops!

At one point it looked to have worked until I realized I was playing with a channel I had already manually changed, sorry.

I'll play again tomorrow.

/edited for a bit more clarity

glorp · #50

Niall,

Forget for a moment about the WMC guide. What happens with XMLTV sources when one of the schedules adds a new channel or perhaps changes a call sign? Is there anything that flags that change and can the Open Source programs like MythTV pick that up and handle it without some additional user setup?

The reason I ask is that I would think it's probably done the same way in the data with MS's guide because it's being signaled by the broadcaster and then carried along by the guide provider. MS couldn't possibly keep up with the many thousands of guides and resulting channel changes so they must just be passing on a "new channel signal" to WMC in the provider's data that then becomes their MXF. If so it should also be in an XMLTV download from Schedules Direct and might be able to be "faked" one time at initial load.

Ladislaus · #51

STC wrote:No dice.

The daily mcupdate scheduled task uses these arguments: -crl -hms -pscn 15

Is there data on what these switches do anywhere?

See:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 058#p80058

The command-line switches for mcupdate are:
-u = go out and ask the server if there’s a new package to download (even if its not the scheduled time to ask)
-uf = same as above, but when you ask the server, say you don’t have a version – so the server will always give you a package to download
-pscn N = N is a number. Trigger a scan if its been more than N hours since the last successful scan (-pscn 0 is a valid input and triggers a scan)
-dbgc = perform a garbage collection on the database, deleting rows that are no longer referenced (this is slow)
-nogc = don’t perform a garbage collection on the database, even if it’s the scheduled time

wifiwanderer · #52

About 50 of our 100 local OTA channels lack data. Fortunately for me, it appears all but one channel contains data for channels with shows I like to record to "timeshift". The local OTA ABC Network affiliate broadcast comes in clear as always, but EPG lacks any data for this channel. I just want to add data for our ABC Network affiliate. Could someone post how to add data for one channel "For Dummies"? TIA.

#53

Sorry to go a bit off topic:

I'm suddenly getting a TCP 124359R 124356H error whenever I run mc2xml.

Has anybody got any ideas?

I'm going to look into the OTA EPG grabbing support in Mediaportal, but I do like having the MS data in general.

Thanks folks....

#54

I just found out that I can still get the "legacy" XP / Vista guide data, just not the Win 7 one. Did I miss something? I've been away for a while!

#55

Fixed!

I just received a new version of mc2xml from the dev

Mike88 · #56

Maybe this will help to figure out things. Take a look in the “Media Center EPG Cutover” thread.
Message #1201 is from a person from Schedules Direct.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=5#p93391

Message #1215 is from richard1980.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=5#p93439
He says”Microsoft built a tool for loading data into the EPG data store, and it is included as part of the WMC installation. See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar ... dmxf__zyoq for more info. All you have to do is create an XML file with the data in it. End users load it into the EPG data store using loadmxf.exe. A simple batch file can load the data file and reindex the data.”

#57

^ We have a working solution that certainly kept me going for a while. Downloaded data from Zap2it via Schedules Direct was easy to port into the db but I then had to add each channel manually which did take some time. My Rovi lineup has much improved so I went back to using it.
I made an image of the HTPC with the manual config so it's easy to go back to it in the future should I need to.

At least we know there is a viable option should guide data completely stop being provided by MS.

wifiwanderer · #58

wifiwanderer wrote:About 50 of our 100 local OTA channels lack data.

Update: Rovi added guide data for the missing ABC channels, but more than half of OTA channels still lack data. Fortunately, most of their programs do not interest me.

richard1980 · #59

Mike88 wrote:Maybe this will help to figure out things. Take a look in the “Media Center EPG Cutover” thread.
Message #1201 is from a person from Schedules Direct.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=5#p93391

Message #1215 is from richard1980.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=5#p93439
He says”Microsoft built a tool for loading data into the EPG data store, and it is included as part of the WMC installation. See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar ... dmxf__zyoq for more info. All you have to do is create an XML file with the data in it. End users load it into the EPG data store using loadmxf.exe. A simple batch file can load the data file and reindex the data.”

I made another post later on, where I referenced the issue STC described where the channels continue to use the Rovi data instead of the manually imported data. I did some testing with loadmxf.exe on a custom MXF file I made, and I ran into the same issue. It would be nice to be able to do a direct overwrite of the Rovi data, but at this time all I can get is a 2nd listings source...which means you have to edit every channel and change the listings source. Of course, once you do it one time, it's done...meaning you can update the MXF file and reload it, and it will overwrite the old data (but only on that 2nd listing, not the Rovi data). So while it does work, it's kind of a pain.

#60

Yes it is....

I ended up setting up the main HD channels first for my family, made sure important recordings worked, then the next night I setup the rest of the HD lineup. We hardly watch SD any more so I omitted those channels. It took a few hours of RDP keyboard and remote work to get the job done.

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