Microsoft ending EPG for WMC in January

Global guide related discussion. All Windows versions.
Space

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#301

Post by Space » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:25 pm

turbodb wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:08 am ...
Thanks, I missed that step (by not watching the setup video; I was just following the written instructions). Worked a charm once I didn't agree. :D
Which instructions did you use that didn't include that step?

The instructions here clearly indicate to select "I do not agree" (even has a picture).

What would you suggest to ensure that others do not have the same problem?

mwpeterson

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#302

Post by mwpeterson » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:22 pm

Space wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:25 pm
turbodb wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:08 am ...
Thanks, I missed that step (by not watching the setup video; I was just following the written instructions). Worked a charm once I didn't agree. :D
Which instructions did you use that didn't include that step?

The instructions here clearly indicate to select "I do not agree" (even has a picture).

What would you suggest to ensure that others do not have the same problem?
I think people tend to click through terms of service agreements without thinking about it.

The instructions could probably use a warning in big red letters.

turbodb

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#303

Post by turbodb » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:03 am

Space wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:25 pm
turbodb wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:08 am ...
Thanks, I missed that step (by not watching the setup video; I was just following the written instructions). Worked a charm once I didn't agree. :D
Which instructions did you use that didn't include that step?
Yeah, should have been more clear. I was following the "instructions" in these posts. Essentially, they both mention 00000 but nothing about the license agreement - likely because those guys already mostly know what they are doing, and I don't :)

I was doing it initially trying to go the "free" route (not using SD), but after I spent an hour on it and all the individual steps seemed to complete successfully (but I still had no guide listings), I decided to just be smart and go the SD route. That of course worked the first time!

tonywagner

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#304

Post by tonywagner » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:40 pm

turbodb wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:03 am Yeah, should have been more clear. I was following the "instructions" in these posts. Essentially, they both mention 00000 but nothing about the license agreement - likely because those guys already mostly know what they are doing, and I don't :)

I was doing it initially trying to go the "free" route (not using SD), but after I spent an hour on it and all the individual steps seemed to complete successfully (but I still had no guide listings), I decided to just be smart and go the SD route. That of course worked the first time!
Hey, that's one of my posts! :)

It worked for us, but we are on OTA. Maybe zip 00000 and accepting the terms with a cable tuner triggers those odd Rovi lineups? (Two of them appear to be Tivo's corporate office location?)

You can also disable internet access during setup (and disable automatic updates in WMC before re-enabling internet?). That should work across OTA and cable because WMC won't be able to download any lineups.

But EPG123 can enable the guide by itself, even if you decline terms during WMC setup.

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#305

Post by tonywagner » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm

Green Lantern wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:30 pm I'd love to hear from others who are currently using a free method (for example, ferrellsl who posted the EPG Collector-Zap2xml PDF guide) about whether or not they are indeed having to constantly fiddle with it?
Keep in mind, ferrellsl actually neglected to disable Rovi guide downloads, so there was never really a working EPG Collector method. Since it only provides about 2-3 hours worth of guide data on primary channels in my area, I'd be surprised if anyone is actually using that program for USA OTA listings.

zap2xml methods seem pretty stable. I mean, zap2xml itself hasn't been updated in over a year, and obviously nothing has changed with the MXF format on the WMC side either.

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StinkyImp

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#306

Post by StinkyImp » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:10 pm

tonywagner wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm Keep in mind, ferrellsl actually neglected to disable Rovi guide downloads, so there was never really a working EPG Collector method. Since it only provides about 2-3 hours worth of guide data on primary channels in my area, I'd be surprised if anyone is actually using that program for USA OTA listings.
I ran EPG Collector on an air-gapped Win7 machine for around four months. I'm purely OTA (90+ channels) so the setup had a simple Mohu Leaf antenna and nothing else. Anything I needed from the internet was downloaded on another machine and transferred via USB key.

I have to say, it was rock solid (albeit bare bones) and able to schedule and record shows without any issues.

The major networks provide anywhere from 20 to 24 hours of data through the stream, but as you said, the other networks may only provide a few hours of (and sometimes no) data. That was a no-go as far as the WAF was concerned. It also doesn't provide any guide enhancements unless you connect to the internet.

If someone's on OTA only and record mainly from the major networks, it's a perfectly solid guide replacement. Other than that it's not... :thumbdown:

Green Lantern

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#307

Post by Green Lantern » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:39 pm

tonywagner wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm
Green Lantern wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:30 pm I'd love to hear from others who are currently using a free method (for example, ferrellsl who posted the EPG Collector-Zap2xml PDF guide) about whether or not they are indeed having to constantly fiddle with it?
Keep in mind, ferrellsl actually neglected to disable Rovi guide downloads, so there was never really a working EPG Collector method. Since it only provides about 2-3 hours worth of guide data on primary channels in my area, I'd be surprised if anyone is actually using that program for USA OTA listings.

zap2xml methods seem pretty stable. I mean, zap2xml itself hasn't been updated in over a year, and obviously nothing has changed with the MXF format on the WMC side either.
Apologies if I got the wrong user. As I mentioned, I thought ferrellsl posted the EPG Collector-Zap2xml PDF guide. Anyway, thanks to whomever did. That method is what I was asking about. And from what you and others have said, it sounds stable; particularly for anyone with a simple OTA setup. I guess that guide didn't cover rerunning WMC TV setup and using 00000 zip code; however, I seem to recall someone said that shouldn't be necessary if you wait until after the Rovi data stops. Does that still seem correct? Because it would make things easier if rerunning setup wasn't necessary = no risk of having to spend hours redoing a highly customized guide (e.g. enabling/disabling channels that you do/don't want in the guide, renaming channels, etc.)

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#308

Post by tonywagner » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:54 pm

StinkyImp wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:10 pm I ran EPG Collector on an air-gapped Win7 machine for around four months. I'm purely OTA (90+ channels) so the setup had a simple Mohu Leaf antenna and nothing else. Anything I needed from the internet was downloaded on another machine and transferred via USB key.

I have to say, it was rock solid (albeit bare bones) and able to schedule and record shows without any issues.

The major networks provide anywhere from 20 to 24 hours of data through the stream, but as you said, the other networks may only provide a few hours of (and sometimes no) data. That was a no-go as far as the WAF was concerned. It also doesn't provide any guide enhancements unless you connect to the internet.

If someone's on OTA only and record mainly from the major networks, it's a perfectly solid guide replacement. Other than that it's not... :thumbdown:
Thanks for sharing. I tried EPG Collector again after seeing your post, but I still only got 2-3 hours of data on every channel in my market, including the major networks. However, on second glance, that seemed suspiciously consistent to me.

So I installed TSReader Lite which analyzed the signal directly from my tuner (HDHomerun) and sure enough, I saw a lot more program data present in the stream metadata! Then I found this post in the EPG Collector discussion forum:
https://sourceforge.net/p/epgcollector/ ... 17cef8215/

Apparently it was a HDHomerun setting that was limiting the program data seen by EPG Collector. Once I changed the "BDA Compatibility Mode" in the HDHomerun Setup program to "J River Media Center", then EPG Collector was able to get the extra program data! And changing that setting doesn't appear to affect WMC operation, as far as I can tell.

I'm still noticing a discrepancy between TSReader Lite and EPG Collector on at least one other channel, though, so I'll dig into this further and report back.

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#309

Post by tonywagner » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:01 pm

Green Lantern wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:39 pm Apologies if I got the wrong user. As I mentioned, I thought ferrellsl posted the EPG Collector-Zap2xml PDF guide. Anyway, thanks to whomever did. That method is what I was asking about. And from what you and others have said, it sounds stable; particularly for anyone with a simple OTA setup. I guess that guide didn't cover rerunning WMC TV setup and using 00000 zip code; however, I seem to recall someone said that shouldn't be necessary if you wait until after the Rovi data stops. Does that still seem correct? Because it would make things easier if rerunning setup wasn't necessary = no risk of having to spend hours redoing a highly customized guide (e.g. enabling/disabling channels that you do/don't want in the guide, renaming channels, etc.)
No prob. I think you had the right user -- that user just had some errors in his setup.

Now that I think of it, I don't think you should *have* to re-run the setup. You just import a new listings lineup and change to those listings.

I might try it out again soon if I can get my own EPG Collector process working...

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StinkyImp

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#310

Post by StinkyImp » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:33 pm

tonywagner wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:54 pmThanks for sharing. I tried EPG Collector again after seeing your post, but I still only got 2-3 hours of data on every channel in my market, including the major networks. However, on second glance, that seemed suspiciously consistent to me.
If the minimum requirements are FREE and the ability to schedule and record TV Shows, EPG Collector is a viable choice for OTA users.

If it was just me, I'd be perfectly happy with the "bare bones" EPG Collector but... I'd probably have a task to auto-run multiple times a day. That's the only way you can "try" to have enough data for those sub-channels that have The Outer Limits and Star Trek reruns.

In addition, the WAF requires guide stability, longevity, and especially aesthetics. :lol:

NOTE: It's my understanding that you can incorporate all the WAF factors but I never pursued those.

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#311

Post by tonywagner » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:30 pm

After the HDHomerun setting change mentioned above, I still had to boost the timeout/retries/buffer in EPG Collector to get beyond 6 hours for the local CBS affiliate, but once I did that, it went way beyond 6 hours -- up to 7 days! I guess it was taking longer to populate all that EPG data in the stream.

So I'm up to 24+ hours on most of my local OTA channels via EPG Collector now:

ABC: 72 hours
CBS: 7 days!
FOX: 24 hours
NBC: 36 hours
PBS: 24-48 hours
The CW: 12 hours

Fortunately, I don't watch the CW or its subchannels much, so I could probably stand to have some gaps in those listings if I don't want to update every 12 hours.

Unfortunately, there are 3 additional low-power channels in my market, with 6 old rerun/movie channels (Laff, Get TV, etc.), plus Univision/Telemundo, and they all provide zero EPG by this method. I don't watch or record these channels much, even if they are fun to browse sometimes, so I may try to do without.

I'll try to come up with the best schedule method and report back.

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#312

Post by jow » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:27 am

I had to register to post this. But last week I restarted my wmc and it downloaded the guide. I click on setting-> about. and it said the guide end date is 1/23/2020. Today I started my wmc again and went through the same process. Now it said guide end date is 1/31/2020!. Can someone confirm?. Here's my proof.
The attachment Capture.JPG is no longer available
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Space

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#313

Post by Space » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:15 am

My Microsoft guide has actual data up to 1/30 at 8pm EST the last time I looked (couple days ago).

FlukieStokes

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#314

Post by FlukieStokes » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:27 pm

Could someone please help me disable the notification that Microsoft is ending the EPG in January 2020? It is on a never ending mission to keep popping up.

Thank You in advance.

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StinkyImp

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#315

Post by StinkyImp » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:23 pm

tonywagner wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:30 pmSo I'm up to 24+ hours on most of my local OTA channels via EPG Collector now:
Wow Tony! That's awesome!

My setup was an old, unused, air-gapped Win7 Home computer with a generic USB BDA tuner connected to a Mohu Leaf. I did a "default" EPG Collector install just to see what it was capable of. I didn't do any kind of tweaking or tuning and found that the PSIP stream provided approximately what you found, maybe a bit less.

In my case I found that even though it was adequate for scheduling and recording on the major networks, I had to run it through task scheduler four or more times a day to capture enough data for those "sub-channels" and stations. The major networks always seemed to have at least a day's worth of data.

On another note... Over the months I tested it I never had a single failure in the hundreds of updates it performed. I found it to be a rock solid piece of software.

I'm very interested in any updates you have as you go along. I'm particularly interested in the ability of EPG Collector to provide aesthetic enhancements and it's ability to incorporate other "guide sources" to extend the listings farther into the future.

Thank you for sharing your experience!

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#316

Post by technodevotee » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:12 pm

FlukieStokes wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:27 pm Could someone please help me disable the notification that Microsoft is ending the EPG in January 2020? It is on a never ending mission to keep popping up.

Thank You in advance.
I would recommend that you have a look here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12499

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#317

Post by Rabbitears » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:21 pm

Green Lantern wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:30 pm
adam1991 wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:19 pm free that comes with the required constant fiddling.
I'd love to hear from others who are currently using a free method (for example, ferrellsl who posted the EPG Collector-Zap2xml PDF guide) about whether or not they are indeed having to constantly fiddle with it?
I have been using the script with zap2xml and xmltv-to-mxf for a couple of weeks. It started out taking 12 minutes with mcepg2-0.db around 250mb. It's now up to 45 minutes and 820mb with no indication that it will stop increasing.

tonywagner

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#318

Post by tonywagner » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:50 pm

Rabbitears wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:21 pm I have been using the script with zap2xml and xmltv-to-mxf for a couple of weeks. It started out taking 12 minutes with mcepg2-0.db around 250mb. It's now up to 45 minutes and 820mb with no indication that it will stop increasing.
Interesting. How many channels do you have? I ran it for awhile in my OTA setup (about 30 channels) and didn't notice it taking that long. I wasn't tracking the size of the database.

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#319

Post by Rabbitears » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:26 pm

tonywagner wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:50 pm
Rabbitears wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:21 pm I have been using the script with zap2xml and xmltv-to-mxf for a couple of weeks. It started out taking 12 minutes with mcepg2-0.db around 250mb. It's now up to 45 minutes and 820mb with no indication that it will stop increasing.
Interesting. How many channels do you have? I ran it for awhile in my OTA setup (about 30 channels) and didn't notice it taking that long. I wasn't tracking the size of the database.
I'm running with a full digital cable lineup so it is a bunch of channels. Same way it was setup with the MS guide.

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#320

Post by npradeepkumar » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:07 am

I do not have either of these patches installed, yet I keep getting the end of life message everytime I go to the guide. Has anyone found any other way of disabling this.
RedWMC wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:32 pm If you can’t find the update “KB4493132”
Then check for “KB4524752” https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... ofessional

I didn’t have the above KB but apparently have slightly different version of Windows7 and they pushed a different KB to it. Since uninstalling and hiding the update no longer receiving the message of end of life in January (was super irritating yesterday when clicking on anything)
My plan is to switch over to PlexLiveTV before January. As much as I love WMC end of support for Win7, coming up for 8. I don’t really trust even with epg123 how long this will last.
Rip WMC....

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