HDHomeRun Prime 6 may actually be a thing

Ask about SiliconDusts HomeRun tuners here.
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joelkirzner

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HDHomeRun Prime 6 may actually be a thing

Post by joelkirzner » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:03 pm

https://www.silicondust.com/product/hdhomerun-prime-6/

Looks like it's scheduled for "2019"
LOL, I thought this product was due out last year?

At least the website shows an actual retail box.

Space

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Post by Space » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:18 am

I would be a bit surprised if this ever comes out, but it would be a pleasant surprise. I don't like that there appears to be no lights on it indicating which tuners are in use. I use that all the time on my Prime to make sure it is recording and has saved me a few times when I had ran out of disk space or had some other problem.

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:26 am

Too late?

What's the ROI on doing this in 2019, when fewer and fewer people are doing the cableco thing?

I have to wonder, in a world where WMC is dead, wouldn't the techie prospect who would/could do a cableCARD tuner like this be just as likely to go OTT streaming? Just what is the modern day demand for a new cableCARD tuner, anyway?

Space

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Post by Space » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:36 pm

adam1991 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:26 am
Too late?

What's the ROI on doing this in 2019, when fewer and fewer people are doing the cableco thing?

I have to wonder, in a world where WMC is dead, wouldn't the techie prospect who would/could do a cableCARD tuner like this be just as likely to go OTT streaming? Just what is the modern day demand for a new cableCARD tuner, anyway?
This was my thinking as well, it seems like people are replacing cable with streaming services, etc. But I watched the video below with SiliconDust's CEO and he says that there are still plenty of "Cord Shavers" as opposed to "Cord Cutters". They still need cable TV for their local channels. He also says that they are on-track to release the new Prime this year (and the reason they stopped making the old Prime was due to unavailability of parts, not because there was no demand).

January 2019 interview cued to where they start talking about the new Prime:
https://youtu.be/zHlHvhaXqz8?t=917

cwinfield

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Post by cwinfield » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:05 pm

The don't have any inside info but I bet it's stuck in Cablelabs certification. It will come out eventually

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:07 pm

Um, many many many people don't need cable TV for their local channels. Although, it would be a simpler thing to bundle them all from one service.

But the techie who wants something like this for his own recording rig is just as likely to stick with a 3 stream Prime and simply add an OTA Duo to the mix (if he can receive OTA). Or he will stick with OTT streaming and simply add an OTA Duo or Quatro for locals.

Otherwise, the non-techie will get a Tivo and be done with it. That's my thought.

Putting out a new cableCARD tuner is a lot of work for a world that is a far, far different place than it was even 5 years ago.

joelkirzner

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Post by joelkirzner » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm

I have tried pretty much EVERY streaming option, including YouTube TV, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, etc.
NONE of these streaming options compares in quality and ease of use to the WMC + CableCard tuner.
I don't have buffering/stuttering/pixelation issues through the CableCard that I have seen with all these other services.
And that is why I am sticking with my trusty HDHomeRun Prime.
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS MICROSOFT!!!

jachin99

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Post by jachin99 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:37 pm

joelkirzner wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm
I have tried pretty much EVERY streaming option, including YouTube TV, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, etc.
NONE of these streaming options compares in quality and ease of use to the WMC + CableCard tuner.
I don't have buffering/stuttering/pixelation issues through the CableCard that I have seen with all these other services.
And that is why I am sticking with my trusty HDHomeRun Prime.
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS MICROSOFT!!!
This is true for me also. Cablecard is the one platform that can easily be integrated into MOST PVR platforms, and once things are up and running it has been really reliable. I can also call my cable company and get my prices adjusted down if I'm not happy with them, and I still get On Demand content via a web browser.

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:45 pm

joelkirzner wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm
I have tried pretty much EVERY streaming option, including YouTube TV, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, etc.
NONE of these streaming options compares in quality and ease of use to the WMC + CableCard tuner.
I don't have buffering/stuttering/pixelation issues through the CableCard that I have seen with all these other services.
And that is why I am sticking with my trusty HDHomeRun Prime.
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS MICROSOFT!!!
yeah, nobody's disputing a bit of that--but how many of you are left to spread the Prime6 R&D costs across?

That's the rub. This stuff costs $$$$. A business analysis of the market for a new cableCARD product would be an interesting read right now.

Would that MS left MC alone, and/or made it an OEM product for SiliconDust (for example) to use in a manner not unlike how Ceton wanted to make the Q.

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:49 pm

jachin99 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:37 pm
joelkirzner wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm
I have tried pretty much EVERY streaming option, including YouTube TV, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, etc.
NONE of these streaming options compares in quality and ease of use to the WMC + CableCard tuner.
I don't have buffering/stuttering/pixelation issues through the CableCard that I have seen with all these other services.
And that is why I am sticking with my trusty HDHomeRun Prime.
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS MICROSOFT!!!
This is true for me also. Cablecard is the one platform that can easily be integrated into MOST PVR platforms, and once things are up and running it has been really reliable. I can also call my cable company and get my prices adjusted down if I'm not happy with them, and I still get On Demand content via a web browser.
What PVRs are out there? Tivo, which has its own tuner. So what standalone, bring-your-own tuner PVRs are out there? Some free, some commercial--but all are science experiments, and none of them bring the security to the table that WMC brought.

If you're talking copy-once content there's Tivo, there's the cableco crap, and...that's it. If you're talking copy freely stuff, there's Tivo, the cableco crap, and a handful of science experiments that Joe Sixpack won't even know about let alone touch.

The whole "ease of use of the cable company" gets interrupted when you insert the science experiment PVR in the middle. WMC was the best of the bunch by far, but that entire world is going away. People who want ease of use because Grandma wants to watch Jeopardy! the same way she has for the last 30 years, they'll just stick with cableco crap and endure it.

So: what's the ROI on bringing a completely new cableCARD tuner, standalone, into the world? A tuner that requires that you attach it to a science experiment?

jachin99

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Post by jachin99 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:16 pm

When I say PVR Platforms, I mean PC Based. I would put Kodi, and maybe Plex (Which I have never used) in the science experiment (Or feature driven) category but I think Emby and JRiver are really geared towards stability, especially Emby in terms of where they are making Improvements. I also havent tried Sage TV or any linux PVR out there. I don't know what to say to Joe Six Pack other than he or she will have to get on the forums, and ask for help regardless of the PVR software they are trying to use. For cablecards, my local Cox office actually ran out but I have two extras. I also see them pop up on ebay.

Space

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Post by Space » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:52 pm

I personally will stick with my Prime 3 if the Prime 6 ever comes out. The only way I would get the 6 is if the 3 had a hardware failure.

Even if I did plan to get the 6, I wouldn't get it right away, I'd wait a while until the Guinea pigs worked out all the bugs. There is a lot of info that we don't know about the Prime 6, like it if will even work on WIndows 7 with WMC (I assume it will, I doubt they would shoot themselves in the foot there, but you never know, they might try to push their own DVR, assuming they get DRM recording working).

Another thing I was reading over on the SiliconDust forums is that the Prime 6 may only have a 100Mb Ethernet connection, which seems silly to me, even though it would probably be fine for most people. I did look at some old recordings I made on my FiOS and they vary in bit rate, with the highest being 18.4 Mb/s. If I have 6 channels recording and they are all 18.4 Mb/s, a 100Mb/s connection is not going to cut it. That being said, I believe the overall average bit rate for the HD channels is around 12.5 Mb/s, so in that case 100Mb/s is just fine.

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:21 pm

jachin99 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:16 pm
When I say PVR Platforms, I mean PC Based. I would put Kodi, and maybe Plex (Which I have never used) in the science experiment (Or feature driven) category but I think Emby and JRiver are really geared towards stability, especially Emby in terms of where they are making Improvements. I also havent tried Sage TV or any linux PVR out there. I don't know what to say to Joe Six Pack other than he or she will have to get on the forums, and ask for help regardless of the PVR software they are trying to use. For cablecards, my local Cox office actually ran out but I have two extras. I also see them pop up on ebay.
Everything you mention is a science experiment, in the consumer world. Kodi, Plex, Emby, JRiver, Channels, Sage, MythTV (especially Myth!)...the audience for this software, which is also the audience for a tuner that feeds this software, is very very very very very small AND specific.

If you think that Joe Sixpack will "get on the forums, and ask for help regardless of the PVR software they are trying to use," you're not thinking at all like the guy who has to spend money to develop and certify a new cableCARD tuner.

Tivo is the only true consumer platform left standing. Ever wonder why?

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Post by unclebun » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:25 am

The problem for me, and I suspect there are many people in the same boat, is that I live in "flyover" country. For us, cord cutting won't work. Where we live, no matter how big an antenna we put up, the number of channels you can get most days is zero. So whether there is a PC solution for time-shifting or not, we're stuck with cable or satellite. Just because the people living on the coasts don't need cable doesn't mean there aren't still people for whom it's the only viable solution.

Your point as to whether it's a viable market or not is valid. But I guess it depends on what your necessary quantity is. 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?

My interest in the new prime 6 is its compatibility with Windows 10. Someday I won't be able to keep Windows 7 with a Ceton InfiniTV 6ETH running any more because components that will run Windows 7 will no longer be available. So I'd like something that works with Windows 10. If nothing is available, I'll be stuck with the cable company's sucky DVR.

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:04 am

unclebun wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:25 am
The problem for me, and I suspect there are many people in the same boat, is that I live in "flyover" country. For us, cord cutting won't work. Where we live, no matter how big an antenna we put up, the number of channels you can get most days is zero. So whether there is a PC solution for time-shifting or not, we're stuck with cable or satellite. Just because the people living on the coasts don't need cable doesn't mean there aren't still people for whom it's the only viable solution.
That's an awfully broad brush you're painting with.

I live in flyover country myself, but I get the four big networks--and that's fine. Should those go away, though, I don't know that I'd be particularly upset. Netflix/Hulu/Amazon do a fine job of filling those hours.

unclebun

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Post by unclebun » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:52 pm

This is the basis for my complaint: https://nocable.org/hd-antenna-coverage-map Note the text below the map which gives the rationale for cutting the cord: Approximately 90% of the United States population is within range of at least one DTV Antenna that provides free television! There is absolutely no reason why you cannot get rid of cable today!

One station is enough reason to get rid of cable? How about give us the percentage of people who can receive all the network stations and PBS with higher than a weak signal?

When you go to the FCC's map, you can put in your zip code and check what TV can be received. And where I live, in the south central part of Missouri, the answer is none. There are lots of TV stations 50-75 miles away. But the reception here is nil.

Even if you accept the "90% can receive one OTA station" as being good enough, that still leaves 10% of the population unserved. And last I saw, Madison Avenue and the media are putting an awful lot of effort into advertising to and pandering to groups that are far less than 10% of the population. You can still make money from smaller parts of the population if you want to.

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