Network Issue also with XBox 360 extender

Troubleshoot and discuss the XBOX 360, XBOX One, Linksys, and other extenders.
Beradon

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Network Issue also with XBox 360 extender

Post by Beradon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:41 pm

So rather than hijacking the thread that is already in this forum I decided to create my own.

I'm also experiencing the 'network issue' notification on the XBox 360 when running live TV to my Xbox.

When checking the Network Tuner it gives me full green bars.

I've tried these two network configurations:


Original Config:
Image


Current Config:
Image


With both configurations I'm getting an intermittent "Network Issue" notification on the Xbox while watching Live TV, however there doesnt actually appear to be any 'network issue', the video and sound do not stutter, everything continues to run great and the notification disappears.

I read the other thread to see if there were some suggestions I could glean from it, however I verified all of my switches have 128kilobyte buffers which is the same as the linked ASUS switch (1Mbit = 128kbyte). Also, as a suggestion from the other thread, you can see I specifically reworked the second configuration to remove the additional switch from the path of the XBox to the HTPC, so the only devices in the way of the Xbox is the switch between them and the MOCA adapters.

To clarify, there is no difference, reduction or increase in the occurrance of "Network Issue" between config 1 and config 2.

If nothing else, is it possible to just suppress that message so I dont have to see it?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Post by SilverRubicon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:23 pm

Wow, that's quite a bit of equipment for such a simple network. I know, diagrams make things look bigger than they are! I think you'd be better off simplifying, but.... When I was having intermittent network issues, I traced it back to a faulty switch (Netgear). I only had two switches and a router/gateway to deal with so it was easier to find. I don't even know where to suggest you start.

Beradon

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Post by Beradon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:45 pm

Amusingly enough, I actually simplified it for the diagram.

Its not showing our numerous wireless devices, the other desktop, the slingbox or a couple other minor things, mostly because they didnt directly effect the network segment that is experiencing the issue. I put the other desktops in there just to show that I have segmented non-media machines from the media portion of the network.

Unfortunately, if I were to simplify, I dont honestly know what I would remove, the house isnt wired for ethernet, thus the need of the additional switches and the MOCA adapters, because basically once I get a data connection to a location, I need it for more than one device in that location.

But the idea behind the Layer 2 segmentation is reasonably straightforward:

Segment 1
The non-media desktops are connected to a switch which pipes straight to the router and out to the internet thus the traffic does not affect the media machines. Rarely they access the WHS2011 box for WSUS updates and backup (at night)

Segment 2
The media machines are (sort of) in their own Layer 2 segment because the vast majority of the traffic runs between the HTPC, XBox 360 and the WHS2011 machine.

Segment 3 (5GHz wireless)
The wireless from the TV and PS3 is to bypass the media L2 segment because technically none of it sends or receives a TV signal, anything those devices would need is out to the Internet (firmware, PSN, various apps, etc). I've also intentionally stuck this on the 5GHz network in my house since we have numerous 2.4GHz devices in order to alleviate any congestion there. I didnt want them all to be on their own wireless connection despite being capable because it would not only add more congestion to the 2.4GHz WiFi domain, but also because its simply the addition of 2 more wireless devices. The slingbox resides here as well, but it remains to be seen if this is going to be stable enough, I'll find out tonight when I'm at work and I try to use it. It's here because if I'm using the slingbox, then neither the PS3 or the TV will be in use because the slingbox resides on that TV.

Segment 4 (2.4GHz wireless (not shown))
I have multiple tablets, multiple phones, some laptops and a desktop all in this segment, they connect straight to the E4200 router wirelessly.


I could really ease some of this if I had a managed switch or two with some properly set up VLANs but I dont have the cash for that.


However, to your point on a bad switch, it'd actually be relatively easy to locate since each switch is only serving one portion of the network. If the switch is bad on the media portion it'd be the TrendNet switch, if I have trouble on the desktops, its the Netgear, and if the TV/PS3/Slingbox has issues, its the Zonet. Almost none of the traffic traverses between them except on rare occasions which would utilize the Cisco E4200, but as I mentioned, its very rare.

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Post by adam1991 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:55 pm

When I was having intermittent network issues, I traced it back to a faulty switch
This.

Bit me in the butt a few years ago. Dumped the (Ebay-sourced) switch, went back to my old one, problem solved.

Last year, solved the gigabit problem by going to a Dell unit. So far, so good.

Really, you need to test your XBox in a tremendously simplified environment to make sure it works. Then slowly move it farther and farther out to discover the failure point.

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Post by lithium630 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:16 am

My cheap switch was my problem also. I had Netgear switch. Figured it should be fine since it supported gigabit speeds. After a year of network errors and playing with all the settings I couldn't take it anymore. At the suggestion of some on TGB, I went with an HP Procurve. It was WELL worth the investment. I hardly ever have a network issue.

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Post by barnabas1969 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:40 am

I totally agree with adam1991. Also note that in the "other thread" to which the OP is referring, that guy still has a "network error" on his XBox, but not as frequent as before. That guy also has MoCa between his Media Center PC and his extender. I know that MoCa adds quite a bit more latency than a wired Ethernet network. Can you try testing it without the MoCa in the middle?

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Post by Beradon » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:28 am

Heh, I went with the MOCAs at the recommendation of people on this forum, I hope its not the cause

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Post by barnabas1969 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:06 am

I understand. I've never tried MoCa, but I've read that it adds quite a bit of latency to your network (for the devices that need to communicate through the MoCa adapters).

If you could test it without the MoCa adapters in the mix, it would be interesting to see the results.

Beradon

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Post by Beradon » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:12 am

I appreciate the suggestions, I'll give them a shot when I have a chance. I just hope it isnt the MOCA adapters after dropping the cash on them, and considering it was one of the easier ways to get ethernet run to the XBox 360's new location.

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Post by adam1991 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:15 pm

Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.

With streaming video, especially HD, there is no substitute for real ethernet cabling.

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Post by Beradon » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:37 pm

Aye, but I dont have the money to wire my house with ethernet.

EDIT:

I'm going to move everything off of the TrendNet switch and up to the E4200 to rule out the switch, we'll see what the next step is after that I suppose.
Last edited by Beradon on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

adam1991

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Post by adam1991 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:29 pm

What would it take to run the wires?

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Post by Beradon » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:32 pm

adam1991 wrote:What would it take to run the wires?
Without destroying my GAF? An act of God

Its down the stairs and halfway across the house. The only way I could probably do it without putting holes in the wall would be to run it through the furnace cold/warm air return ducts which actually are right next to the router location and the xbox location, but I've looked into that and people say its not a wise decision for one reason or another.

This whole HTPC, WHS2011, Extender, Ceton, etc thing has been a project of mine and she's fortunately been very accepting of all of it and the TV downtime I've created, but I think I know where her patience will end. Once or twice already she's complained rather heatedly to me that she just wants the TV to 'work' when I've been smoothing out some of the kinks.

I migrated the HTPC onto an SSD yesterday purely for this reason.

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Post by barnabas1969 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:50 pm

Running wires through air plenums is only allowed in the National Electrical Code with a specific type of insulation on the wire. I don't know if you can find Cat5 or Cat6 cable with the right kind of jacket. And... your local codes may prohibit it anyway.

Wiring upstairs rooms is easy from the attic. You can just drill holes at the top of the wall, cut a hole for a wall plate in the wall where the jack will be located, and fish the wires down through the walls from above. Downstairs is always a pain. If you're lucky enough to have a closet upstairs that is directly over the downstairs wall where you want to locate the ethernet jack, you can do it that way... go down from the attic, through the closet, and into the wall below.

If you're any good at patching drywall/plaster, you can make small holes at strategic locations in the downstairs ceiling (depending on the construction of the floor joists between upstairs and downstairs) and run cables between the floor and ceiling.

I've gone as far as cutting holes in the upstairs floor, and then patching the wooden floor and laying the carpet back down over the patch.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

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Post by STC » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:53 pm

barnabas1969 wrote:Where there is a will, there is a way.
Or "Where there's a wall, there's a hole", as I always like to say :)
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Post by barnabas1969 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:11 pm

stonethecrows wrote:
barnabas1969 wrote:Where there is a will, there is a way.
Or "Where there's a wall, there's a hole", as I always like to say :)
That's funny!

Yep, you just need to get all that drywall out of the hole. The hole is already there... it's just full of white, chalky stuff. :)

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Post by adam1991 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:42 pm

The only way I could probably do it without putting holes in the wall would be to run it through the furnace cold/warm air return ducts which actually are right next to the router location and the xbox location, but I've looked into that and people say its not a wise decision for one reason or another.
<snort> Just do it. No big deal.

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Post by STC » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:23 pm

Depending on how hot your furnace runs, you could in theory start emitting noxious fumes into your home from the cable starting to melt. You could use plenum rated teflon coated network cable and that would prevent that happening, although the chances are low. The chances of a fire occurring are slim to none.

Either way I don't know what the code is where you live. The risk is yours.
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Post by barnabas1969 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:32 pm

The reason for the electrical code is not due to the hot air coming from the furnace. No furnace is going to output air that is so hot that it will melt the insulation on the wire. The reason for the code is so that if there is a fire... you don't have flammable materials in your air ducts. Having flammable materials in the air ducts will circulate noxious smoke throughout the building. That's it. Plain and simple.

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Post by adam1991 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:37 pm

We *are* talking return ducts, here.

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