Copy Prohibited message kills video

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UCBearcat

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Copy Prohibited message kills video

#1

Post by UCBearcat » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:08 pm

I originally posted about an issue that I've had on my WMC7 workstation for some time now. I've been (slowly) troubleshooting the issue as I have time. For reference http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... f=5&t=3884 but I'll outline the details here.
Mods- I started a new thread so I could give a more concise list of what has been done in hopes one of the geniuses here can put the pieces together. And, my guesses in the previous thread were way off. Feel free to merge topics or do whatever magic you feel is necessary.

Issue: Live TV (and recordings) will freeze or stutter on the last 2 frames while the audio buzzes. All video up to this point is fine. Video after this point is ruined. This can occur during live TV or a recording. I have also had 2 recordings fail at the exact same time. example. At 2:17PM, both videos display this issue. All video after 2:17 is ruined. WMC will continue to record the rest of the programs with unviewable video. I can rewind to before 2:17, and it works fine... until I get to 2:17 again.

Windows event log reports no warnings or errors. The recordings never fail. They just continue recording. The stream from the HDHR Prime never breaks. There is still network activity reported on the Prime and WMC that indicates the stream is still going. Media Center continues to finish the recording like nothing happened.
I've taken note of the PID of the receiver services, and they never change. I was thinking the services were crashing but no logs were being made. The only time PID changes is with a reboot.

So far, the only thing of any use that I've been able to get from SiliconDust support is: "the receiver service is going though its normal initialization handshake with the HDHomeRun PRIME" at the time of the incident. Again, I will add that there are no logs to support this on my PC.

They also indicated that there was a bug in Media Center that caused this, and a HDHR f/w corrected the issue. I have updated to newer firmwares twice since their suggestion. No joy.

I initially thought it was a signal issue, so I had Time Warner come out and fix some issues on my line. - My signal strength now hovers around 0 with SNR around 36-ish. The problem continued.

I then thought I had a bad spot on the HDD, since the issues only occurred very randomly at a week or more interval. I've run HDSentinal for several months. It reports no errors.. I rebooted and did a full Windows Disk Scan/surface scan. No errors reported. I downloaded the Western Digital Data Lifeguard utility. I ran a full scan. It reported no physical disk errors.

Last night while watching Live TV, it happened again, and I was able to do some T-shooting. This time, I was able to catch a WMC Blue Screen message.
Video plays fine up until a blue message pops on screen for a split second. (so fast, I had to record my screen with a camera to catch it) The video plays for about one more second before freezing for good. (I have an MP4 video if anyone is interested)
The Blue message is: "Copying Prohibited - The broadcaster prohibits this content from being copied. You can only play this content on the same computer on which it was recorded."
Given what SD support says about re-initializing a handshake- this kind of makes sense, I guess. So does anyone out there have any suggestions for me? I've taken this about as far as I know how. Is this a PlayReady issue? A problem with the Prime? Maybe an issue with my network?

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#2

Post by mjktg99 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:15 pm

I didn't have the same issue, but I did have issues were Live TV and Recorded programs lost signal and the recording would end. Live TV would come back but it lost some functionality like pause, rr/ff. The solution to my problem was to set the IP of my PC statically on the PC. Before that I had it reserved in my router by mac address. I was however getting a master browser reset in the event log at the exact same time of the failed video.

Like I said, not the same but maybe a place to start.

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#3

Post by foxwood » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:15 pm

The 2:17 issue you mentioned - was that two recordings being made at the same time, and both showed the error?

My guess is that you've got some sort of signal ingress on your cable that is corrupting the signal just enough that it is interpreted as a Copy Protection flag, though I'm not sure that that's supposed to happen with digital signals - it was occasionally reported when the signals were analog.

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#4

Post by UCBearcat » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:21 pm

First off- Thank you for reading my long-winded post!

To answer some of the posed questions - I am using IP reservations on my wireless router for the Prime, my WMC PC, and both Xbox extenders. I guess I could certainly check the lease times on the workstation to see if it is doing a DHCP request/update at that time.
I don't see any master browser reset messages in the event logs. In my case, the recordings don't end. They finish up like nothing happened at all. As funny as it sounds, i'm annoyed that there are no warnings or errors in the event log... at least then, I'd have something to go on. :?

To foxwood - Yes, I had 2 recordings running at the same time (2 different channels on the one PC). Both recordings bombed at the same time. Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough at the time to check for the "Copy Prohibited" message. I've been battling this bug for longer than I care to admit. It seems to only happen once every week or 2... infrequent enough that it has taken me awhile to rule out stuff one at a time.... but frequent enough to annoy the urine out of me. (and the wife)

I should mention that I have tried 3 different splitters, and that doesn't seem to make much difference. During the last visit, the Time Warner tech put in a 4-way split as soon as it comes in the house. I think he did this to tone down the strong signal that I get from the street.
2 of the lines are capped. 1 goes directly to the back of a 32-inch cable ready TV in the bedroom. The other line goes to my Cisco TA, and the Prime is connected via the Out-Port of the TA.
I'm not opposed to running the Prime directly off of the splitter, if this would be worth trying.

I will also mention that I've experienced the trouble on CC channels as well as Switch Digital channels.

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#5

Post by UCBearcat » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:04 am

Okay... My mind has just been blown.

In speaking w/ SD support, they said that the saw a similar issue once before where WMC would do this 47 hours after either a PC or PRIME reboot. No lie.
They had me reboot the PRIME and make sure that I had a tuner going at exactly 47 hours after the reboot. I had a recording on one tuner and watching Live TV on another tonight. I couldn't believe it when the freeze/glitch occurred right on schedule - 47 hours after the PRIME rebooted.

As you can imagine, my reaction is: What the ?? How?? Whaa?? :wtf:

I'm a sys engineer and work on Windows servers every day, so I've seen my share of weird stuff... but this has me baffled.

Apparently, there is some kind of counter causing this. I find it interesting that rebooting the PRIME causes the issue... makes me wonder if the PRIME software is doing something with a .dll in windows or something. Basically, resetting the counter.

So.... what do you guys think about this?

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#6

Post by UCBearcat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:28 am

While the issue isn't exactly "fixed," I'll post the update here in case anyone else is having similar issues with their PRIME. I spent many hours pouring over logfiles and hardware diagnostics, signal strengths, co-ax splitters, etc. etc.... all in vain. Hopefully, this helps save someone else from the trouble.

The aforementioned 47 hour glitch does in fact exist with the PRIME. (at least in my setup)
Here are the order of events that finally got me to this conclusion:

10:30PM on September 11 - Send a soft reboot to the PRIME
9:37PM on September 13 - 2 copy-once channels tuned - one is LiveTV and the other is recording. Copy Protected error and glitching occurs on both channels simultaneously.
8:37PM on September 15 - 1 copy-once channel tuned/recording - one LiveTV stream on a copy-freely channel. The copy-freely channel had no issue. The copy-once recording glitched.

From what SD support has told me, a reboot of either the PC or the PRIME within the 47 hour time-frame resets the "timer." I'm still waiting for them to get back to me to tell me if this is a WMC timer.... or a timer in the PRIME and its software.

The fact that I rebooted the PRIME, and not the PC, leads me away from a WMC problem.

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#7

Post by jerryt » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:57 am

At 48 hours will it record properly?

Could to put a timer on the Prime to cycle the power every 24 hours?

Are all Primes effected or only some?

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#8

Post by UCBearcat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:13 am

If I'm watching LiveTV when the glitch occurs, I can tune away and right back... and everything works perfect for 47 more hours. If I'm not watching TV or recording at the 47th hour, I never notice it.

I had so much trouble pinning it down because it seemed so random... but since the glitch moves back 1 hour every 2 days, I could go 2 weeks between issues. I would say 90% of our TV viewing/recording happens from 6pm to midnight. So you can see how that played in to the "randomness."

So far SD support hasn't been very forthcoming with details. They just said that they had this occur with one other person, but they didn't say what the outcome was.

For the first 6 months I had my system set up, I had it sleep when not in use. Around September last year, I set it to run 24x7 so I could use the MMC app. It was about that time when I began noticing the glitch. I think sleeping/resuming resets the timer as well, but I haven't tested that theory.

If I never get a resolution from SD support, I've already created a batch script to check for recordings or extender sessions. If both report "zero," then it will soft reboot the prime via command line.

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#9

Post by barnabas1969 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:41 pm

What firmware version is on your HDHR Prime?

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#10

Post by UCBearcat » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:28 pm

I'm currently running the latest stable build 20130328. This issue occurred with the last two previous stable builds as well.
SD support has been silent for almost a week now... Either they're testing it out themselves with their own equipment, or they're hoping that I just go away and schedule a daily reboot as a workaround.

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#11

Post by barnabas1969 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:54 pm

What were the last two stable builds? I'm still on 20120405 (I think that's correct, but it's definitely from April/May 2012). I don't see a need to "upgrade" the firmware since I'm experiencing no problems.

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#12

Post by UCBearcat » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:59 pm

Two previous stable builds:
20130117
20120405

I generally don't upgrade unless I see an issue either. However, I use a Tuning Adapter (which is THE weakest link in my whole setup), and the older f/w updates addressed some TA tweaks and fixes. And since I was having this stutter/freezing issue, I felt the upgrades were warranted.
I've stayed away from the BETA firmwares, because this is on the main TV in the house... and the wife would not like the TV to be out because of a bad BETA f/w. ;)

I was running 20120405 when I first noticed the issues last fall. As I mentioned in a previous post, this is when I changed my setup from sleep/wake to "on 24x7." I find it hard to believe that this is only coincedence.

If I recall from reading other threads, you use sleep/wake in your setup... and I believe you also do a nightly reboot after Media Center runs its update. So, you may never see the issue yourself.
But then again, maybe I have a component in my PC that doesn't play well w/ their software (NIC, Video Card... random mobo chipset). Who knows?

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#13

Post by barnabas1969 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:24 pm

You're correct about the sleep/wake and daily reboot.

I have tuning adapters too, and don't have any issue with them. What kind of TA problems were you experiencing?

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#14

Post by barnabas1969 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:32 pm

I found your thread about making sense of the numbers, and I see that you rewired your house. You posted the TA's FDC values before the rewire, but you didn't post the RDC values, nor did you post the TA's values after the rewire.

It's possible that your TA is having trouble communicating upstream. If you're having trouble with the TA, you should start by looking at the TA's signal.

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#15

Post by UCBearcat » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:42 pm

My TA was affected by the "rare" ccio_serial_asm error. My Prime logs would fill with this message and the TA would continually reset the connection w/ the PRIME. While it was infrequent, It seemed more common after a reboot of the Prime.
Also, I would occasionally get a "slow-tune" on the TA, which would generate the "alternative channel has been tuned" message. One of the firmwares helped with this quite a bit.

My biggest complaint that I have w/ the TA now is that it will stop tuning channels, and I have to power cycle it get it to "wake up." If I go into the TA menu prior to the reboot, everything reports functional... but it isn't. It says that it is "ready," but it really isn't.
Basically, CC tuned channels work just fine... All Switched Digital channels won't tune. I can remove the USB from the TA and then reconnect it. The Prime will recognize it and "connect" to it. But, no TA channels will tune. Power cycle is necessary.
+1 for the Prime

It is a Cisco STA1520, by the way.

And.. just saw your 2nd post.
The numbers on the TA are actually pretty strong now. (I'm not in front of it right now to give exact numbers) I can post those when I'm at home if you're interested.
I had a TWC tech come out to the house a few months back when my signal was through the roof. (+12dB behind a 3-way split!!) They fixed something upstream that was causing the trouble.
During the re-wire, I removed about 60+ feet of RG59 and replaced it with about 20ft RG6. The old wiring was looped around the basement from a long time ago.

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#16

Post by barnabas1969 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:09 pm

I was using Tapatalk from my phone when I posted my last two posts. Now, I'm back at my keyboard and can post something a little more useful.

I have the same TA as you. I'm on Brighthouse Networks (formerly TWC). Your FDC power should be +/- 10dB. FDC S/N should be mid-high 30's (35 is great). RDC power should be less than 50dB , preferably between 25-40dB (though the cable company says it will work as high as 55dB, but that is contrary to my experience).

I do see the "alternate channel" message maybe once every month or two. I never have a problem with SDV channels actually tuning though. My Prime tuners need to be power-cycled about every 6 months, or they just stop working. I always power-cycle the TA's at the same time.

How does that compare to your experience with the HDHRP?

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#17

Post by UCBearcat » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:53 pm

The Prime itself is pretty rock-solid. I know that I had it up for almost 5 months at one point, before a head-end reset command was sent to the CableCard. If I reboot the Prime, I'll do the TA at the same time... but the TA needs kicked much more frequently than the Prime.

I also think TimeWarner's SDV system can be a little flakey. Even before I had the Prime, I had one of their Samsung set-tops that would occasionally give me the "this channel is not available" message. I would have to tune away and then back for it to tune the Switched channel.

It has been a week since the last update from SiliconDust support, so I think it's time I see if they have any news.

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#18

Post by KevinC25 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:23 pm

@UCBearcat: I know it's been a while, but thanks for this helpful thread. I have been having the exact same symptoms (TWC, 2xHDHR Primes, 2xSTA1520 TAs, Win7HPx64) for 18 months and have been pointed in the direction of your thread by the great folks Jasonl and Signcarver at the Silicondust Prime forum, see the OP's thread here:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewt ... 8de67e0e73

I intend to keep monitoring back to back recordings for a bit longer to confirm the "47 hour" rule, but I'm confident it is the same problem. I see you had created a batch script to check for recordings or extender sessions and if both report "zero" then soft reboot the prime via command line. Did you ever find any further fix? If not, would you care to share the batch file? Thanks!

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#19

Post by barnabas1969 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:55 pm

I forgot all about this problem. About a month ago, I replaced my old HTPC with a new one. The old one slept about half of the day (and rebooted daily). The new one never sleeps and only reboots when Windows Updates come through on a weekly basis.

I haven't seen the problem yet, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I haven't watched everything I've recorded yet.

I'm now on firmware 20140121 because when I downloaded/installed the drivers from the SD website, it updated my firmware without asking me. What firmware are you on, Kevin?

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#20

Post by UCBearcat » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:10 pm

Ahhh.. this thread returns. :shock:
I got your email Kevin, so I figured I'd pop in before I left the office for the day. I had posted this issue on the SD forums around the same time as this one, but it appears to have disappeared... i.e. when I search for it, it doesn't exist.

Anyway.... let me first say that I'm glad I'm not the only one with the 47 hour weirdness! I'm not crazy.. I swear. Secondly, I'm sorry you're having the trouble.

To answer your question: yes, I did make a basic little batch file that checks if the tuners are in use, and it also checks if an extender is in use.... if no, then it reboots the PC. I set a task to run every Monday and Friday morning at around 5am or so (when I'm sleeping). This way, the 47th hour lands really early on Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday.... generally when we aren't recording much of anything.

I've been running this script for about 4 months or so... and it has worked pretty well for us. We haven't had the 47 hour glitch occur since I set it up to reboot regularly.
I am currently running the latest stable build f/w that was released in January 2014. I have not tested this f/w to see if the issue persists... the 3 previous firmwares had the issue, so I just assumed this one has it too.
After reading the SD thread, they aren't any closer to figuring it out now than they were 5 months ago. Oh well!

When I get home, I'll hop on my WMC machine and get the batch file and put it up here for your viewing pleasure. It's crazy simple, but effective.

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