Now that WMC is officially dead, what about guide data?

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mercalia

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Re: Now that WMC is officially dead, what about guide data?

#21

Post by mercalia » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:52 pm

n4mwd wrote:I don't think M$ has updated WMC in several years. We used to have integrated streaming, but they "updated" that into oblivion. As long as they don't pull a stunt like that again and "update" something else away, it should still continue to work. Here in the US, the EPG uses M$ servers. I am not sure what has to be done to get it to work with the OTA EPG - or possibly a different service.
well in the uk nothing has to be done to use ota epg - if MC cant get MS epg it automatically gets it from the broadcast signal

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CyberSimian

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#22

Post by CyberSimian » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:29 am

mercalia wrote:well in the uk nothing has to be done to use ota epg - if MC cant get MS epg it automatically gets it from the broadcast signal
But not for the high-definition channels. The EPG for the HD channels is broadcast in an encoded form that Win7 MC does not understand. So you either go without, or you load the EPG for the HD channels from some other source.

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#23

Post by woodyl » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:07 pm

I've been using my WMC setup since Win7 RTM. I'm bummed that MS has killed WMC in Win10, but I'm not really surprised. WMC has been an orphan for many years. Here are some of my thoughts and concerns:

1. Microsoft, in typical fashion, is demonstrating its usual lack of vision by killing off WMC just at the time when cordcutting is becoming a mainstream desire. I know that I'm not the average user, but the only reason I bought an Xbox was to use it as an extender. If MS had any imagination, they would repackage WMC and make a play for the cordcutter wannabes out there.

2. Several people seem quite sanquine about the prospects for staying with WMC on Win7, but Win7 security updates will end in just 4.5 years. WMC may still be supported after that, but that's not for sure. I could upgrade to Win8 (which I don't really like), and that *might* buy me 3 more years of WMC until Win8 support ends too. I think it's time to look for another DVR solution in case MS breaks WMC in a way that will make it not usable.

3. At this point, there are plenty of alternatives available for streaming, e.g., Chromecast, Roku, etc. I find that I'm watching less and less DVR-recorded material and more streamed video, DVDs, etc.. Still, it would be a pain to give up the DVR capability. I'm thinking that a dedicated Linux box with tuners might be what I'll end up with.

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#24

Post by mdavej » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:59 pm

I think we still have years to go before MS pulls the plug on guide data. Even then, 3rd part guides already exist. Plus Silicon Dust's HDHomeRun DVR is on the horizon and promises to provide guide data and support protected content. While I'm also bummed this is the end of the road for WMC, I'm not really concerned about the future. It will work out fine. If not, then there's always Tivo.

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#25

Post by tocsin » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:12 pm

CyberSimian wrote:
mercalia wrote:well in the uk nothing has to be done to use ota epg - if MC cant get MS epg it automatically gets it from the broadcast signal
But not for the high-definition channels. The EPG for the HD channels is broadcast in an encoded form that Win7 MC does not understand. So you either go without, or you load the EPG for the HD channels from some other source.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
Ah, is this why my attempt to record HD didn't work? How do you get the UK HD EPG? (An IT literate here, but WMC newbie - wasn't that a good choice, moving from DVD recorders ;) )

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#26

Post by STC » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:48 pm

Remember Sports and Internet TV were US Specific, not global.
By the Community, for the Community. 100% Commercial Free.

Want decent guide data back? Check out EPG123

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CyberSimian

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#27

Post by CyberSimian » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:31 pm

tocsin wrote:Ah, is this why my attempt to record HD didn't work? How do you get the UK HD EPG? (An IT literate here, but WMC newbie - wasn't that a good choice, moving from DVD recorders ;) )
If you use the Microsoft EPG downloaded from the internet, that includes the HD channels, and the EPG for the HD channels will show the programme schedule.

If you use only the broadcast EPG, the EPG for the SD channels will show the programme schedule, but the EPG for the HD channels will be empty ("No information available", or somesuch wording). However, you can still schedule a manual recording on the HD channels, where you specify the channel number and start and end times (just like a VCR).

It is also possible to download the EPG from other sources on the internet, and load that EPG into WMC (I have never tried this). For example, the "Radio Times" website (other listings magazines are available) provides an EPG that can be downloaded from the internet. Some of these alternative EPGs may charge for the information.

The problem with internet EPGs is their coverage. Although the Microsoft EPG has been updated in the past to reflect major changes to the channel line-up in the UK, it does not include some of the minor channels (and probably never will). The "Radio Times" EPG does not include the radio channels(!). In contrast, the broadcast EPG includes all channels (at least, on DVB-T/T2). On the other hand, some of the internet EPGs include more information about programmes than the broadcast EPG (e.g. actors/directors, original broadcast date, repeat flag, star rating).

I will mention in passing that MediaPortal can extract from the broadcast datastream the EPG for the HD channels, and so does not require an internet EPG (but an internet EPG can be used, if desired).

You have not given any details about your failure to record HD channels, so it is not possible to say whether this is due to EPG problems!

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Crash2009

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#28

Post by Crash2009 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:37 pm

I havn't read this whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned. Schedules Direct will supply your Guide needs for $25/year.

If you haven't figured out what to do when WMC disappears, Emby is reported to work with the network attached (Homerun and ETH6) versions of TV tuners.

So there you go, Win 10, Emby, Schedules Direct.

R.I.P. WMC

http://emby.media/community/index.php?/ ... bytv-info/

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#29

Post by LuckyDay » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:45 pm

Very interesting solution. It's too bad there is so much inconsistency between the different Emby apps and platforms.

The PC based Win 8.1 app and theater app are both bad in my experience.

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#30

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:16 am

Yeah, I've noticed people complaining about that before.

Rather than break what I have right now (Infini4/WMC/WMC Server/Emby Server) Clients are all WebM (might be also known as HTML5) all my PC's, Mac's, Droids and I-pad/pod/etc., all connect fine without installing anything-No apps needed.

The part I find interesting is Emby TV installs as a plug-in inside Emby Server, and eliminates the need for WMC Server and inevitably WMC itself. Haven't looked into this deep enough to find out about protected channels, other that it appears they are working on it.

I might just start fresh with a Win 10 box and experiment till I get it right, burn a working image, and part out the WMC box. There is plenty of time.

I think I might have mentioned this before, all the clients need is an internet browser. Chrome, Safari, IE 10, with WebM. IE11 has WebM built in all ready.

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#31

Post by oriculum » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:47 am

As for the Schedules Direct service, would something need to be written to automatically download and populate the guide data, or is there already a program out there to do that? Also, their website states that they only approve Open Source programs, so would they even approve a WMC connector/translator app?

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#32

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:59 am

The way I read it EmbyTV will pull Schedules Direct.

The "Schedules Direct" suggestion has been around for quite some time. Punch it in to the search box up in the top right corner of this page and you will see what I mean. There are a couple other Guide sources as well.

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Crash2009

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#33

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:35 pm

I realize this is "off topic"

Lucky, here is the WebM link to familiarize yourself. Open an IE web browser from any PC client, point it at your server ex: WAN http://68.xxx.xxx.xxx:8096 or LAN http://192.xxx.xxx.xxx:8096 Follow the prompts to install WebM. No App's needed. ..your router might need a "Slap or two" in the port forward section, to make it work.


Droids don't have to do anything as they use Chrome. Mac's have Safari, also no WebM necessary.

http://www.webmproject.org/ie/

I just tried the Droid App. I refused to pay, Live works fine. Protected and Recorded TV don't work. One other annoyance is my phone wanted me to sync with my neighbors Smart TV.

Looks like my phone just needed a little time to populate the Recorded TV list. Recorded "Non Protected, works OK"

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#34

Post by dkrom » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:57 pm

Back when I was troubleshooting my 2005 guide someone recommended I get EPGCollector. It doesn't work for 2005, but it's supposed to do everything people are asking for on this post for free. I can't say it works since I'm still using MCE2005 with three extenders, but here's the link to check it out: http://sourceforge.net/projects/epgcollector/

If it doesn't work, please post. It looks like there is a learning curve to the program.

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Crash2009

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#35

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:47 pm

oriculum wrote:As for the Schedules Direct service, would something need to be written to automatically download and populate the guide data, or is there already a program out there to do that? Also, their website states that they only approve Open Source programs, so would they even approve a WMC connector/translator app?
If WMC is dead you won't need Guide data. What you need is a new WMC. What they are suggesting is a complete replacement of WMC and the recently unreliable guide that comes with it.

I installed Emby Server a long time ago (just to sling my channels). Emby wrote or forked (or whatever you want to call it) WMC Server which is the interface between WMC and Emby. Recently they have written something called EmbyTV and have made Schedules Direct work inside it. EmbyTV is available from the plug-in section of Emby Server. After EmbyTV is plugged in WMC and WMC Server won't be necessary. Not that I am going to dump it right away, just looking for some alternatives to use on the day that the Guide and WMC do a disappearing act. So in support of the project I have ordered a HDHR Prime, and I guess I'll start looking for an ETH 6, Win 10 (without WMC), Emby Server, Emby TV Plug-in, and Schedules Direct are going on my I7 or Dual Xeon. It appears that only Network Tuners are supported at this time. Emby TV is not even RC'd yet. It's still Dev.

Click on EPG Provider in the following link:

https://github.com/jose-pr/MediaBrowser ... ter/EmbyTV
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#36

Post by Ed  » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:54 pm

Crash2009 wrote:It appears that only Network Tuners are supported at this time.
Only Networked -DLNA capable tuners it says in that thread you posted. So, only HDHR tuners. No Cetons.

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Crash2009

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#37

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:57 pm

Thanks, you just saved me 200.

I guess I was being a bit too optimistic when I read the "should work" part.
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#38

Post by ZippyTheChicken » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:56 pm

It seems like we have a short time but the future looks grim...
rantalert
Kodi is not a PVR it requires plugins to play live video from a Tuner.

There have been some promising advancements in Kodi but I have seen nothing about how they will address CableTV Viewers. I believe SiliconDust will eventually release a full WMC replacement solution for both ASTC and CableCards but it will depend on the market and It will require new hardware. I wouldn't expect much of anything that any of us now have to be compatible.

Then you have all the people who just could afford a cheap USB Stick Tuner or a Better PCIe Tuner or Ceton Tuners.

There are a lot of manufacturers that will go out of business because of this and this is not Horse and Buggy Kind of stuff ASTC will be around until the next version of it is released a decade or more from now.

I will tell you there are a few different type of people that deal with all of this mess.

There are people that have quite a bit of cash to spend on every option that would make their entertainment system better.

And there are people like me that scrimp and save and find workarounds that are horrible to manage because they live just at the Fringe Antenna Range and their budget is getting real tight and its getting to be too expensive for basic cable.

I think the people with more cash than they know how to spend .. or save.. are going to be really happy spending $250 a month on streaming services (once you add it all up) along with $100+ for a broadband connection and they will look back and say why did i ever use my computer to record TV or why did I store so many shows and Movies

But in reality it is very very expensive to give control of your media and entertainment to someone else and pay for it in that way.

It is something I can not justify and I don't see a time in the future that I will be able to.. it just costs too much


I think this push to streaming.. while ASTC and Cable are still viable .. I think it will turn a lot of people that would never have done it before into Video Pirates... Put themselves or their Family at risk just so they can have TV Shows... They will try to justify using a Torrent Stream to get premium content free through Kodi or another product.... and they will say .. if there was a product within my budget I would gladly pay a reasonable amount for it.

Then they will say since there is no affordable option they are forcing me to steal it.... no they aren't really .. but this is how people are today .. they don't care about anything.. not the fact that the kid down the street is a heroin addict .. not that crazy people taking over countries and abusing children .. so you can just forget the fact they are stealing content off of torrents AND also feeding that same content back out to others... they don't care ..

I am not going to go down that dark path

And if you approach this problem correctly most of us won't have to.. but Microsoft and others are making life harder for many .. and making the choices for many easier to steal vs just record what they already paid for.

You don't hear about people getting busted today for doing this but now and then it happens.

This is because no one is enforcing it .. no one enforces anything anymore in the USA .. but eventually it will happen.

Comcast is not only the largest Broadband Provider.. they are also a TV Production and Movie Studio.. they have a lot to protect.

So we will see the future.

But I strongly suggest that everyone record and archive as much content as they can now.. and look into an Antenna.

If you are on a budget.. its more important that you invest in whats needed to get this done now.

Buy a couple 5TB Externals for $120 each on sale and save all the content you can.. and use MCEBuddy to reduce the file sizes .. you don't need perfect 4k video to watch an old rerun while you clean the house or make dinner.. just as long as its good enough that it doesn't look like Minecraft


Seriously .. none of us know the future and what it will bring except .. the cost of entertainment will never go down and every new "advancement" means more expense...

Once you convert from .wtv to MP4s they will play on anything or they can be converted in the future.

Its always been our right to record OTA or Cable for our PERSONAL use first on VCRs then Computers ..
with streaming we lose that ability and right..

That means if you don't have to pay for the content over and over ..
you at the very least have to pay for the data transfer over and over...

And they keep and price and limit your access to the content that you have already paid for .. not you

Whether you paid for it by watching their commercials..
or by paying a cable or dish subscription ...
or by paying for an online service...

You should retain the right to control the content you paid for.

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Crash2009

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#39

Post by Crash2009 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:16 pm

The recent XP MCE Guide fiasco should be a wakeup call for everyone.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 317#p90317

There are a couple alternate Guide Sources posted there.

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#40

Post by adam1991 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:18 pm

I'm sorry, Zippy, what was that? I couldn't read it, I was blinded by the flash from your foil.

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