Media Center starts on the wrong screen, any idea ?

[crawfish]

No, i actually meant DVI-D cable, not port...

To your point, on face, it doesn't make much sense to me to even MAKE a DVI-I -> HDMI cable. It's a SWAG on my part...just trying to help.

I know it doesn't make any sense; that's why I commented on it. Why not just say DVI -> HDMI cable? It's unambiguous without the -D or -I suffix. The only thing you can vary is the type of port you connect to.

[Heckler]

I know it doesn't make any sense; that's why I commented on it. Why not just say DVI -> HDMI cable? It's unambiguous without the -D or -I suffix. The only thing you can vary is the type of port you connect to.

As I said, because DavidinCT specifically stated DVI-I...

OK, so you made me go figure it out... DVI-I and DVI-D have six pins in common which could allow for a DVI->HDMI cable to make the video card and WMC believe that the analog portion is also connected and thus violate HDCP...

DVI-I -> VGA (all analog, right?):
http://pinoutsguide.com/VideoCables/dvi ... nout.shtml

DVI-D to Type A HDMI (all digital, right?):
http://pinouts.ru/VideoCables/hdmi_dvi_ ... nout.shtml

If you compare, the following pins are in common:
6 DDC clock
7 DDC data
8 Analog vertical sync
14 +5 V
15 Ground
C5 Analog ground [not specified, but the pin is there on DVI-D]

So, if DavidinCT's DVI cable (or if he's using a DVI-I to HDMI adapter and then just an HDMI->HDMI cable) happens to have pins for any of the DVI-I analog only connections (C1-C4), then HDCP may be violated...

[crawfish]

Dude, the HDMI end has no pins to connect C1-C4 to.

[DavidinCT]

Just to clear this up, yes, still having this problem....

I am using a DVI-D (24+5) adapter to HDMI.

I tried using the DVI-D to the TV and also the HDMI out of the card, I get the same result on both connections...

Ugh, I wish there was a way to disable the video out of the 2nd monitor but, still have audio come out.

[crawfish]

Ugh, I wish there was a way to disable the video out of the 2nd monitor but, still have audio come out.

If you are talking Nvidia, please post to this thread from November, as I did just a couple days ago:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topi ... =5#4453773

[DavidinCT]

Ugh, I wish there was a way to disable the video out of the 2nd monitor but, still have audio come out.

If you are talking Nvidia, please post to this thread from November, as I did just a couple days ago:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topi ... =5#4453773

Yes, I have GTX 750ti SC 2gb card.

I tried, forgot my PW on that site and tried to reset it but, never got a email....(will do that when I can). Funny after searching for NVidia with HDMI only over, I found a bunch of threads finding the same thing.

So, that would be the solution here, OR, does anyone know after investigating this a little more (was having display driver issues, so did a clean wipe in safe mode and reinstalled the driver to fix)

When the PC connects via HDMI, it gets a handshake and the secure connection showing the EDID(shows what the device supports) from the device connecting to. What happens is, when I change to another source on my AVR, the handshake is broken, when I re-select that source(the HTPC) and this is what is causing havoc here, It tries to recreate the handshake and in this, it's causing MC to change windows, or show in a window, instead of full screen.

I wonder if there is a way with Windows in the registry/NVidia CP or something to HOLD that HDMI handshake info, so when I swap between sources (or shut off the tv) it does not change. The only hardware device I found was the Gefen HDmi Detective Plus but, this device only supports HDMI 1.3 and up to 1080p, so running 2160p @60hz wont work with this device and therefor worthless to me.

Does anyone know if ATI cards offer HDMI audio only feature ? If they do, I will dump my 750ti in a second and go buy a ATI card for the HTPC... This is that much of an issue...

[crawfish]

When the PC connects via HDMI, it gets a handshake and the secure connection showing the EDID(shows what the device supports) from the device connecting to. What happens is, when I change to another source on my AVR, the handshake is broken, when I re-select that source(the HTPC) and this is what is causing havoc here, It tries to recreate the handshake and in this, it's causing MC to change windows, or show in a window, instead of full screen.

I wonder if there is a way with Windows in the registry/NVidia CP or something to HOLD that HDMI handshake info, so when I swap between sources (or shut off the tv) it does not change. The only hardware device I found was the Gefen HDmi Detective Plus but, this device only supports HDMI 1.3 and up to 1080p, so running 2160p @60hz wont work with this device and therefor worthless to me.

HDMI Detective is unreliable WRT HDCP when using Nvidia anyway. I mentioned that in my post to the Nvidia forum in that thread I linked to, and I and at least one other poster have mentioned it here recently. So after recently trying it, I once again had to give up on connecting my HTPC to my AVR and return to what I've done all along, connect directly to the TV for video and to the AVR with S/PDIF for audio. That way, Windows thinks the TV is always connected, even when it's turned off. This could be the big difference why my suggestion about closing WMC in the windowed state works for me and not as well for you.

As for forcing Windows to think the TV is permanently attached when using an AVR, I also suggested that in my Nvidia message as an alternative to the audio-only feature. There's no way to do it (else Gefen would be out of business for HTPC usage), but another problem related to the AVR coming and going can be solved. I connect my gaming machine (also dual display) to the AVR to get 5.1 LPCM from games. This was a problem because Windows wasn't correctly detecting the audio capabilities of the AVR unless the TV was on as well (which is pretty dumb). I was able to solve that by using MonInfo to create an EDID override based on EDID when everything was switched on. While this doesn't solve the problem of the TV and sound device coming and going when I switch inputs, it does give me consistent EDID, so the sound device shows up with full capabilities when the AVR input is set to the gaming PC regardless of TV status, which was good enough for me. Unfortunately, I think that's at best tangential to your problem.

[DavidinCT]

Edit, Item I posted might not work, will update once I have more info...

[DavidinCT]

When the PC connects via HDMI, it gets a handshake and the secure connection showing the EDID(shows what the device supports) from the device connecting to. What happens is, when I change to another source on my AVR, the handshake is broken, when I re-select that source(the HTPC) and this is what is causing havoc here, It tries to recreate the handshake and in this, it's causing MC to change windows, or show in a window, instead of full screen.

I wonder if there is a way with Windows in the registry/NVidia CP or something to HOLD that HDMI handshake info, so when I swap between sources (or shut off the tv) it does not change. The only hardware device I found was the Gefen HDmi Detective Plus but, this device only supports HDMI 1.3 and up to 1080p, so running 2160p @60hz wont work with this device and therefor worthless to me.

HDMI Detective is unreliable with regard to HDCP when using Nvidia anyway. I mentioned that in my post to the Nvidia forum in that thread I linked to, and I and at least one other poster have mentioned it here recently. So after recently trying it, I once again had to give up on connecting my HTPC to my AVR and return to what I've done all along, connect directly to the TV for video and to the AVR with S/PDIF for audio. That way, Windows thinks the TV is always connected, even when it's turned off. This could be the big difference why my suggestion about closing WMC in the windowed state works for me and not as well for you.

As for forcing Windows to think the TV is permanently attached when using an AVR, I also suggested that in my Nvidia message as an alternative to the audio-only feature. There's no way to do it (else Gefen would be out of business for HTPC usage), but another problem related to the AVR coming and going can be solved. I connect my gaming machine (also dual display) to the AVR to get 5.1 LPCM from games. This was a problem because Windows wasn't correctly detecting the audio capabilities of the AVR unless the TV was on as well (which is pretty dumb). I was able to solve that by using MonInfo to create an EDID override based on EDID when everything was switched on. While this doesn't solve the problem of the TV and sound device coming and going when I switch inputs, it does give me consistent EDID, so the sound device shows up with full capabilities when the AVR input is set to the gaming PC regardless of TV status, which was good enough for me. Unfortunately, I think that's at best tangential to your problem.

Think there is a work-a-round for this.... see

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-f ... st31717025

Ultramon offers a "Ignored Monitors" feature, this will (according to above, I wont get a chance to test till later), disable the video on the monitor but, keep audio on. If WMC cant see the 2nd monitor, then it will stay on one monitor and fix this problem once and for all.

If this does what it says, I can send back the $75 in splitters I have coming and just spend the $30ish on this app...

Hope this helps you...

[crawfish]

Let me know if it works. I use DisplayFusion, and while it has an "Ignore monitor" feature, it's limited to its own functions, such as "move window to next monitor." The "disable monitor" feature disables it in the Nvidia Control Panel, which is no good.

[DavidinCT]

Let me know if it works. I use DisplayFusion, and while it has an "Ignore monitor" feature, it's limited to its own functions, such as "move window to next monitor." The "disable monitor" feature disables it in the Nvidia Control Panel, which is no good.

Yea, tried NVidia's option, it disables it, audio and video.

If I get time, I will try it when I get home...

[DavidinCT]

Let me know if it works. I use DisplayFusion, and while it has an "Ignore monitor" feature, it's limited to its own functions, such as "move window to next monitor." The "disable monitor" feature disables it in the Nvidia Control Panel, which is no good.

OK, It works and works perfect. Ultramon did solve the problem for me, after a lot of troubleshooting. So here I am to help to save you a hassle and anyone else running into this issue.

Your TV must be Display 1 (right click on the desktop, Display prop, See your monitor and what number it is)
If your TV is display 2 this will cause havoc, in fact rebooting the HTPC after disabling Monitor 1, caused WMC to be in a endless crash, I didn't troubleshoot it too much as I had a backup from last night.

IF it is not, this is what I did to correct it and get the TV monitor back as display 1...

So, Here is how I resolved this issue... This is in Windows 7 x32.

1. Connected the TV, JUST THE TV (needed monitor 1).

2. Go into the Display settings, Confirm that it's showing as Monitor 1 (single monitor). And select Save before exiting

3. Reboot computer, after it comes up confirm settings are still there.

3. Connect 2nd monitor(while windows is running), this should show 1 and 2 in the right place.

4. Reboot computer and confirm settings stayed.

The Install UltraMon, When going through the install options, Unselect EVERYTHING besides the base product (you will have everything X'ed out, it installs unneeded options), After install, go to the ""Ignored Monitors" tab, select the monitor you don't want to use, and select ignore, A prompt will come up but, hit yes. The screen will blink then the monitor you selected is DEAD.

After doing this, I have rebooted the computer 10 times, and switched to other devices on my AVR 6-7 times every time WMC shows up in full screen. I've even disconnected the PC and reconnected it, still holding. EPIC..

IN FACT !!!! If I go to the input where I am connected to the AVR (TV and AVR), it will give me no signal and I still get FULL HD audio from the AVR. It disables it in Windows, (windows shows the monitor but, wont let you do anything with it)

This is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

The demo is for like 30 days, so try it but, the full product is like $32....Worthy thinking of the $75+ I tried to fix this problem.

[crawfish]

Thanks, I may have a feature request for the DisplayFusion guys.

So I'm clear, the AVR connection never appears to have a display attached in Windows, even when the AVR is on the PC input? That is, you can't move the mouse onto it, drag windows to it, etc? However, audio is still enabled for it?

What happens when you switch inputs on the AVR? Does the sound icon in the notification area go from having an "x" overlay indicating no sound when you switch away and no "x" when you switch to the PC input? Does the primary display briefly go blank?

[DavidinCT]

Thanks, I may have a feature request for the DisplayFusion guys.

So I'm clear, the AVR connection never appears to have a display attached in Windows, even when the AVR is on the PC input? That is, you can't move the mouse onto it, drag windows to it, etc? However, audio is still enabled for it?

What happens when you switch inputs on the AVR? Does the sound icon in the notification area go from having an "x" overlay indicating no sound when you switch away and no "x" when you switch to the PC input? Does the primary display briefly go blank?

Cancel that, I guess it does not fully work as expected. When turned it on, I heard audio and after rebooting many times, no problem still worked but, Audio does go to the AVR but, it's not bit stream, Unable to control the volume on my AVR, and HD-audio formats give me a loud noise when playing it back. So I am not getting bit streaming so it's worthless for me. Glad I didn't buy it yet. F*CK !!!!! (no other way to put it)

I'm going to talk to the one who suggested it, to see if he is doing something different.

About the ONLY workaround I have found (after playing with this one for the last 2 days almost non-stop), In the Windows Display setting is to duplicate the display on both monitors. Windows acts like it's a single monitor just displaying the same image, so WMC opens on the main display with no issues, I get HD-Audio formats, and WMC is still running at 2160p @ 60hz. If you switch to the AVR switch WMC is still running at 2160p but, is only displaying at 30hz, switch over to the dedicated

I guess this will HAVE to do, till I can find a splitter, that is TRUE 2160 @ 60 hz with HDCP 2.2... and I am sure that will be a while or just crazy money. I will need a item like this down the line, as when 4K Blu-ray hits, I want that...

[crawfish]

Cancel that, I guess it does not fully work as expected. When turned it on, I heard audio and after rebooting many times, no problem still worked but, Audio does go to the AVR but, it's not bit stream, Unable to control the volume on my AVR, and HD-audio formats give me a loud noise when playing it back. So I am not getting bit streaming so it's worthless for me. Glad I didn't buy it yet. F*CK !!!!! (no other way to put it)

The MonInfo and EDID override I described earlier might help with that. What do you see in the supported formats in the Sound control panel? If it's just 2ch 48 KHz or something, that sounds like what I was often seeing on my gaming machine before doing the EDID thing. I'm really surprised they can remove the display from Windows but leave the audio even somewhat intact, if I've understood you correctly.

About the ONLY workaround I have found (after playing with this one for the last 2 days almost non-stop), In the Windows Display setting is to duplicate the display on both monitors. Windows acts like it's a single monitor just displaying the same image, so WMC opens on the main display with no issues, I get HD-Audio formats, and WMC is still running at 2160p @ 60hz. If you switch to the AVR switch WMC is still running at 2160p but, is only displaying at 30hz, switch over to the dedicated

That's interesting. I might try that on my HTPC, where I have the monitor on Intel 4600 and the TV on Nvidia. I would use Nvidia for audio, and while I extend the desktop between Intel and Nvidia, maybe I could duplicate the TV and audio connections on Nvidia. Are you running into HDCP problems? I vaguely recall reading that duplicated displays aren't allowed. I've only ever used extended displays myself.

[DavidinCT]

The MonInfo and EDID override I described earlier might help with that. What do you see in the supported formats in the Sound control panel? If it's just 2ch 48 KHz or something, that sounds like what I was often seeing on my gaming machine before doing the EDID thing. I'm really surprised they can remove the display from Windows but leave the audio even somewhat intact, if I've understood you correctly.

That's interesting. I might try that on my HTPC, where I have the monitor on Intel 4600 and the TV on Nvidia. I would use Nvidia for audio, and while I extend the desktop between Intel and Nvidia, maybe I could duplicate the TV and audio connections on Nvidia. Are you running into HDCP problems? I vaguely recall reading that duplicated displays aren't allowed. I've only ever used extended displays myself.

Well, after I used the Ignored Monitors feature, I was still getting audio as I said that is all it was, sound effects from Windows, No DD or DTS, and it would not let me control the volume on the AVR (was not very loud). When this was setup like this I checked the NVidia control panel and like you, it just was unchecked in there. I checked in the Sound control panel, it would show the HDMI port but, say "not connected" so I could not even do anything with it. I don't think editing the EDID would help in this case. Looking like a complete failure on this one

So far using Duplicate displays, I'm running both video outs from one video card, DVI-D (using a 24+5 HDMI adapter, ebay $3.49) and HDMI. I don't have any channels that FLAG my recordings (got lucky on that one). As having HDCP problems, I checked the NVidia CP and checked for both listed Monitors (TV and AVR) and both said HDCP was fine, so I am going to assume there would be no HDCP issues there, as I have no content to test to know 100%.

I have only tested a few things. I played a HD recorded show, Put live TV on for about 10 seconds, Tried a LG 4K demo video (20 second mind-blowing video), Started a DTS 5.1 movie (confirming audio) and started a movie with DTS-HD core audio. Everything seemed fine, no slow downs or stutters, all audio tracks worked as they should. I have not had a long sit down in watching a movie or an hour show, maybe later tonight.

The only thing I would think that COULD cause an issue, running both displays at 2160P might use more resources on the video as it's only one card (heat possible issue in the long term), otherwise, SO FAR, seems like it's doing the job...

If you try this let me know, just wondering how your results are, I'm disappointed that the software didn't work, it seemed like EXACTLY what I was looking for.

At least there IS a work-a-round for me...for now..

And I have never tested Duplicating display, only extended myself...I was playing with the settings and noticed it, and I said, What they hell, cant get worse

[DavidinCT]

So, today, after a reboot, I tried watching live tv and it gave me an error could not play over this type of display. So, everything I have tried is a complete failure. After resetting back to dual monitors, TV played back.

I have a HDMI 1.4 splitter coming in that I was hoping to just return but, once it hits, I will give it a shot. As long as it's limited by it's EDID, it might work as Nvidoa does it over HDMI 1.4...

[crawfish]

Which splitter are you looking at? I took a quick look at the Monoprice offerings, and there are a couple of ways of determining EDID depending on the splitter. There's a highest common factor mode, but there may also be a priority mode for which one of the outputs sets the EDID. Reading your first post, your AVR doesn't support 2160p60, which you wanted, and I'm guessing your TV doesn't support the HD audio formats, which you also wanted. It would seem neither of those two EDID methods captures what you need. It sounds like you need a splitter that supports a "highest capability merge" mode, but I don't know what will happen if you send 2160p60 to the AVR.

BTW, you can use GPU-Z to determine the card's energy/resource usage. I found that with Fermi and earlier cards, hooking up two displays prevented the card from downclocking at idle. Kepler cards do downclock fully with two displays attached (well, for 1900x1200 and 1080p, at least), but I've read that three displays turns them back into pumpkins.

[DavidinCT]

Which splitter are you looking at? I took a quick look at the Monoprice offerings, and there are a couple of ways of determining EDID depending on the splitter. There's a highest common factor mode, but there may also be a priority mode for which one of the outputs sets the EDID. Reading your first post, your AVR doesn't support 2160p60, which you wanted, and I'm guessing your TV doesn't support the HD audio formats, which you also wanted. It would seem neither of those two EDID methods captures what you need. It sounds like you need a splitter that supports a "highest capability merge" mode, but I don't know what will happen if you send 2160p60 to the AVR..

One that was on Amazon, it claims support for HDMI 1.4, it was only $30, when it comes in, I will plug it in, try it, If I get lucky, POWER off and unplug the PC for a bit, then try it again. If it does not work (and at this point I don't think it will) I will just return it. I'd dig up a link but, figured why bother if it might not work in the first place.

If I send 2160p @60 to the AVR and it does not support the video, I hope it just blanks out the video but plays the audio, and all would be happy in my little world. I don't have that type of luck. It does sound like I NEED a "highest capability merge" feature here..

The Other one I was looking at was the HDfury 4K Splitter, It's $100. It might be able to do it as it can take custom EDIDs but, We are now talking $100 for this issue, on a device that I WILL have to replace later.

At this point I am starting to think I just gota live with this problem and wait for a true 18gb/s HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 splitter, as they should be hitting the market in a few months.

It's not that I have not tried....:/

BTW, you can use GPU-Z to determine the card's energy/resource usage. I found that with Fermi and earlier cards, hooking up two displays prevented the card from downclocking at idle. Kepler cards do downclock fully with two displays attached (well, for 1900x1200 and 1080p, at least), but I've read that three displays turns them back into pumpkins.

Not sure that will help, as it's only on one video card. It's not like I am running 2 different video cards. Knowing hardware pretty well and overclocking for years, doing that to a video card could possibly cause issues and that is something I don't want to take a chance on. I want this video card (that I have had for 2 months) to last a few years at least.

Maybe it's a fluke but, Once I did the thing I did above for the Ultramon (getting the TV to monitor 1)after last night switching between sources, I saw no issues with WMC. The TV is listed as monitor 1 and the AVR is listed as monitor 2. It seems to be holding as of now... but, of course I need a few more days to test....

As we have seen in this thread, a fix that looks like it will work the next day fails....ugh..

This problem is starting to get really OLD, I've spend more time than I needed to, If I got paid like $100 for every hour I have been working on this issue, I could buy a FLAGSHIP AVR ($5K+)..... I get a little obsessed sometimes...

[crawfish]

BTW, you can use GPU-Z to determine the card's energy/resource usage. I found that with Fermi and earlier cards, hooking up two displays prevented the card from downclocking at idle. Kepler cards do downclock fully with two displays attached (well, for 1900x1200 and 1080p, at least), but I've read that three displays turns them back into pumpkins.

Not sure that will help, as it's only on one video card. It's not like I am running 2 different video cards.

I was talking about a single card situation, multiple displays on a single card.

Maybe it's a fluke but, Once I did the thing I did above for the Ultramon (getting the TV to monitor 1)after last night switching between sources, I saw no issues with WMC. The TV is listed as monitor 1 and the AVR is listed as monitor 2. It seems to be holding as of now... but, of course I need a few more days to test....

As we have seen in this thread, a fix that looks like it will work the next day fails....ugh..

This problem is starting to get really OLD, I've spend more time than I needed to, If I got paid like $100 for every hour I have been working on this issue, I could buy a FLAGSHIP AVR ($5K+)..... I get a little obsessed sometimes...

Good luck. I'm sure it'll hold indefinitely as long as you never reboot, sleep, change inputs, turn anything off, look at it funny, etc.