CableCARD no longer required legislature

[richard1980]

Now you got me going. Last time I checked, they were paying me 5 bucks/month to use CableCards in customer supplied equipment.

While Comcast may be giving you a $5 per month credit for customer-owned equipment (I'm guessing $2.50 x 2), they're also charging you $20 or $30 per month for STBs. So in reality, you're paying far more for your CableCARDs than you should.

The actual net monthly rate for each additional Cablecard (after the included first one) is supposed to be $7.50 a month ($10 outlet - $2.50 credit). I have two cards w/no STBs and pay $5/month net for both of them after the bogus additional outlet fee and 2x$2.50 credits.

But as we've discussed many times here and elsewhere, Comcast card pricing is all over the map and entirely depends on local policy and the rep that sets you up. Sounds like Crash is getting the best YMMV deal, two cards for free and two credits. This is not uncommon.

You may not be aware of this, but your subscription package price includes the cost of your first "outlet" (aka STB). So you're really paying $10 x 2 for your two outlets, and then you get $2.50 x 2 in customer-owned equipment credits, for a net total of $15 per month for two CableCARDs. Those are some expensive CableCARDs!

[IownFIVEechos]

Looks like the White House doesn't like this idea?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/04/technol ... _Highlight

Looks like this could hurt all cloud based subscriptions? May not be too bad of a thing.

[barnabas1969]

Since the supreme court is stacked with conservative judges who have been siding with big business on just about everything, I expect that Aereo will be put out of business in favor of the big four broadcasters.

[blueiedgod]

Last year, Verizon Fios' CableCARDs went from 3.99 to 4.99 in my state. I expect it to go up to 5.99 sometimes this year and beyond afterwards. The idea to rent 2 cards for 10 dollars a month and pair them to a cable ready device with 3 tuners each by 2 would not really be worth it, but if it were a device with 6 tuners by 2 it would seem worth it.

Why not rent one cable card and install it in a 6-tuner box, like InfiniTV6? You cut your spending in half.

[slowbiscuit]

You may not be aware of this, but your subscription package price includes the cost of your first "outlet" (aka STB). So you're really paying $10 x 2 for your two outlets, and then you get $2.50 x 2 in customer-owned equipment credits, for a net total of $15 per month for two CableCARDs. Those are some expensive CableCARDs!

Yes I know first device is included. You can define it however you want, but I have a package deal for all channels + HSI for $90/month so I don't really care how the cost of the first card factors in. It just chaps my butt that Comcast skirts the intent of the reasonable card rental rules by sticking us with the outlet fees, even if we have the credit. Good thing the new 6-tuner devices mean you don't need more than a couple of cards now anyway.

[sbaeder]

barnabas1969,
Thank you for such a concise and informative post. I will do as you suggest.

Thanks from ME as well - it was a very well written statement!!!

[nathagt]

Here is the list of committee members

http://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/i ... teeMembers

[Embiggens]

It's probably been discussed here previously, but I personally have never seen the CableCARD numbers. This article slightly precedes the one at the start of this thread.
44 million cablecards in cable boxes vs 600,000 in retail devices. That's about 1.4%, which is small, but without a doubt large enough to have a disruptive effect on the market.

http://www.multichannel.com/distributio ... 45m/148023

[richard1980]

Yes I know first device is included. You can define it however you want, but I have a package deal for all channels + HSI for $90/month so I don't really care how the cost of the first card factors in. It just chaps my butt that Comcast skirts the intent of the reasonable card rental rules by sticking us with the outlet fees, even if we have the credit. Good thing the new 6-tuner devices mean you don't need more than a couple of cards now anyway.

My point was that you aren't paying $5 per month for two CableCARDs...you're paying $15 per month for two CableCARDs.

[makryger]

It's probably been discussed here previously, but I personally have never seen the CableCARD numbers. This article slightly precedes the one at the start of this thread.
44 million cablecards in cable boxes vs 600,000 in retail devices. That's about 1.4%, which is small, but without a doubt large enough to have a disruptive effect on the market.

http://www.multichannel.com/distributio ... 45m/148023

That's an interesting statistic. I wonder what it is on a per-household basis. For example, I'd imagine that "retail" households use fewer cards on average than those with cable boxes. So it could be the percentage of house holds its actually higher.

[RyC]

It's probably been discussed here previously, but I personally have never seen the CableCARD numbers. This article slightly precedes the one at the start of this thread.
44 million cablecards in cable boxes vs 600,000 in retail devices. That's about 1.4%, which is small, but without a doubt large enough to have a disruptive effect on the market.

http://www.multichannel.com/distributio ... 45m/148023

If you look at the FCC doc in that article, it shows the exact numbers for the big companies: http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7520954433

[slowbiscuit]

Yes I know first device is included. You can define it however you want, but I have a package deal for all channels + HSI for $90/month so I don't really care how the cost of the first card factors in. It just chaps my butt that Comcast skirts the intent of the reasonable card rental rules by sticking us with the outlet fees, even if we have the credit. Good thing the new 6-tuner devices mean you don't need more than a couple of cards now anyway.

My point was that you aren't paying $5 per month for two CableCARDs...you're paying $15 per month for two CableCARDs.

The way you do the math, sure, but I don't break out the cost of the first card separately. Neither does Comcast, and I don't think the plan I have would be cheaper even if first device wasn't included.

[richard1980]

The way you do the math, sure, but I don't break out the cost of the first card separately. Neither does Comcast, and I don't think the plan I have would be cheaper even if first device wasn't included.

Yes, Comcast does break out the prices. You just have to look at the rate card. FCC rules prohibit subsidizing the cost of equipment with service fees and vice versa. That means that a bundle package price must be the sum of the equipment and the service. For example, if a bundle package includes one STB and is priced at $100 per month, and the rate card lists the STB lease fee as $10 per month, then the bundle package price breakdown would be $10 for equipment and $90 for service. It may not be listed that way on your bill, but that's what is happening behind the scenes. I'm curious how you would perceive the situation if the prices were broken out on your bill. Ultimately, your total bill wouldn't change, but the way the prices are broken down would.

I'm also curious how you would perceive the following situation:

Fictitious Cable Company has a subscription package called The Movie Package, which costs $40 per month and includes Cinemax, HBO, Showtime, and Starz. The rate card lists the individual prices for each of those channels at $10.

So if a customer orders The Movie Package, would you say that they are getting Cinemax for free? What about HBO? Showtime? Starz? Or would you say that they are paying $10 per month for each of the channels, for a total of $40?

[miracleed]

You can use this as a template for writing your own letter.

Done and done.

[gary94080]

There's always a question of how long Media Center will live for... and it usually boils down to "however long cablecard support lasts"... hrmm...

I was looking at the reworked Microsoft Community site and I could be wrong and have not found it yet, but it appears that there is not Home Theater group or anything about Media Center or Xbox extenders.

[RyC]

Yeah, it's gone

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... php?t=7065

[slowbiscuit]

The way you do the math, sure, but I don't break out the cost of the first card separately. Neither does Comcast, and I don't think the plan I have would be cheaper even if first device wasn't included.

Yes, Comcast does break out the prices. You just have to look at the rate card. FCC rules prohibit subsidizing the cost of equipment with service fees and vice versa. That means that a bundle package price must be the sum of the equipment and the service.

Agreed, but Comcast does not bill the customer this way. You say I'm paying $15 for two cards and I probably am, but my view based on the bill is that I'm paying $5 for both. I don't really care whether the cost of the first card is hidden in the $90 double play price on my bill.

[reggie14]

Hasn't the FCC already been giving out some limited waivers on the integration ban?

I just want to emphasize one thing from barnabas1969's template. I'm sure many of you know this, but some might not. It sounds like this would only remove the ban against integrating security modules in STBs (i.e., not using cablecards in their own boxes). As many of you know, the integration ban was put in place to force cable companies to support CableCards, and it was reasonably effective at that. Later regulations (and threats by the FCC to be more engaged in this area) helped out a bit more, too.

Getting rid of the integration ban wouldn't, by itself, remove the requirement to support CableCard. And keep in mind there's a very large installed base of cable company provided STBs that rely on CableCard, so there's only so much damage that could be done.

Cable companies *probably* wouldn't do anything too bad... To do so would risk future FCC or Congressional involvement (e.g., AllVid), which the cable companies really don't want. From the cable company perspective, CableCard is already 1) deployed and 2) no real threat, so I imagine if they need to be able to argue that they support third-party boxes, they'd rather go with CableCard than any other technically-feasible option.

[barnabas1969]

The cable companies have been fighting against CableCARD since day one. If you read the press release from the Senate committee, you'll see that they are considering a replacement for CableCARD. I just want to ensure that CableCARD continues to be supported until another solution is commercially available.

[slowbiscuit]

Yep the real danger here is not that Cablecard will go away, but whether there will be an open IP access standard to replace it. Right now that is very much in doubt given the FCC's insane decision to allow Charter to go their own way for a new downloadable security standard.

http://www.multichannel.com/technology/ ... ver/142813