Two Echo / WMC Start Questions Please

[Madcodger]

First, apologies if this is the wrong forum for these questions, but my new Echo (which works really well, thus far) is my main interface to my new WMC HTPC build simply because it's on the TV we use most often. And there are two odd things that keep it from being great. Any help with resolving them is appreciated.

1) The Netflix plugin appears on my HTPC WMC screen, but nowhere on the Echo. It's as if it doesn't exist. We stream from Netflix frequently via a Roku, but doing so vi the Echo / HTPC would potentially simplify the number of attachments / devices at that TV and eliminate the added Roku remote.

2) Is there any way to make Live TV the default at startup instead of Recorded TV? It's just annoying to have to switch to it when often all we want is a quick check of the weather channel.

And any suggestions on a good, simple, Non-Harmony remote are welcome. Thanks!

[mdavej]

1) No Netflix is not possible on Echo.


2) On the Echo, the Extras> Echo menu has the start options. Live TV is one of them.

[Dean L. Surkin]

And any suggestions on a good, simple, Non-Harmony remote are welcome. Thanks!

I use URC remotes. Alternatively, if you have a smart phone or tablet with and IR emitter, you can get an app that turns it into a full featured remote (I don't remember the name of the app)

[mdavej]

I prefer Xsight and JP1 remotes.

[barnabas1969]

Agree with mdavej, in both posts #2 and #4. Not sure where Dean is going in post #3. Dean's post won't help Madcodger one iota.

[Madcodger]

1) No Netflix is not possible on Echo.


2) On the Echo, the Extras> Echo menu has the start options. Live TV is one of them.

Thank you! Live TV is a huge improvement now, greatly increasing WAF. No Netflix is a bummer, but Roku workable...

Thank You!

[Madcodger]

I am currently trying a URC remote, but - perhaps because of my TV or the lights in the room - it's not working well at all. I'll try the other suggestions, and thanks for all of them.

[mdavej]

You're welcome. If URC is giving you trouble, then any other IR remote will give you trouble too. You just need to solve your interference (or low battery) issues and all will be well. Turning the backlight on your TV usually does the trick. The painter's tape trick also works well.

[Madcodger]

You're welcome. If URC is giving you trouble, then any other IR remote will give you trouble too. You just need to solve your interference (or low battery) issues and all will be well. Turning the backlight on your TV usually does the trick. The painter's tape trick also works well.

With all due respect, that's just not accurate. IR remotes vary in both their intensity and the frequency of the light (IR). I appreciate your attempt to help, but IR remotes do vary in both these areas. And the Ceton remote works fine - it just has very small buttons.

[mdavej]

Suit yourself. URC has plenty strong IR. Many models have 2 or 3 large IR LEDs, where as the Ceton has only one tiny LED and quite weak in comparison. If your URC isn't working, then you've got some other issues working against you. To prove this to yourself, just look at the IR LED of each remote through a digital camera and note which has the biggest, brightest light. The URC is going to win hands down, unless it's suffered some catastrophic hardware failure.

[Madcodger]

Suit yourself. URC has plenty strong IR. Many models have 2 or 3 large IR LEDs, where as the Ceton has only one tiny LED and quite weak in comparison. If your URC isn't working, then you've got some other issues working against you. To prove this to yourself, just look at the IR LED of each remote through a digital camera and note which has the biggest, brightest light. The URC is going to win hands down, unless it's suffered some catastrophic hardware failure.

I feel a bit bad arguing with you as you are attempting to help me with my original question, which I appreciate. But note that two factors are at work here. One is light intensity / strength, which you address. The other is light frequency, or where on the light spectrum the IR is produced. If the URC is off somewhat from the native Ceton light frequency, more power is unlikely to help. It's like speaking louder to someone who speaks a different language. They hear you better, but they don't understand you any better.

[mdavej]

I understand, but in my nearly 15 years of dealing with all kinds of universal remotes, the IR frequency has never been an issue at all, ever. The carrier frequency of the signal, yes, but the frequency of the light, no. Do you have any evidence to support this? Has anyone ever reported that their URC didn't work because the IR frequency was wrong? IR sensors simply don't discriminate that much. If it weren't for filters, they'd react to visible light as well. A few MHz isn't going to make any difference.

[Madcodger]

Have had this issue both at my home and a friend's with Motorola STBs for FIOS. Harmony wouldn't control them reliably despite original remote working fine. We solved that with a blaster and tunable Xantech IR receiver, which may be the solution here. But seeing as how I want a new remote anyway, thought I'd see what was available and known to work.

[mdavej]

That's because of the XMP protocol used by those boxes. It's notoriously hard to learn and reproduce. Nothing to do with the IR light frequency, but the carrier frequency and signal complexity.

MCE is simple, but does have a toggle bit. So attempting to use learned signals can result in only every other button press working. This could also be your issue. There is zero chance it's the IR frequency.

[mdavej]

I meant to add this but can't edit my post. When I said WMC, I actually meant to say M C E, a variant of RC6.

I think you and I are probably talking about the same thing, only your understanding of the frequency is a little off. When people talk about frequency in consumer IR, it's not the light frequency (which is typically fixed) but the "carrier" frequency, which typically ranges from about 38kHz to about 60kHz, far, far below the actual frequency of IR light. It's common for the carrier frequency to be an issue. The signal processing part of some IR devices simply won't recognize carrier frequencies outside a certain range. This is often solved by something like the Xantech your friend used. But there are other ways to solve it, if you have control over the structure of the signal.

URC remotes are far more flexible than Harmony in this regard since you can essentially build and import perfect signals via pronto hex, rather than rely on the imperfect learned signals Harmony often uses. If given the correct data, any Harmony or URC can produce any consumer IR signal in use today (besides some of the really strange protocols some air conditioners use). So I still don't think the remote itself is the culprit, only the data it's using.

This page explains it a lot better than I can: http://davehouston.org/ir-rf_fundamentals.htm

I really don't have enough information to give you any better advice. When you first said your URC wasn't working, it sounded like it was across the board, not just your Ceton, hence my diagnosis of an interference issue. Now that you say only the Ceton works poorly with it, and your OEM remote is fine, then that rules out noise and means something is up with the signal from your URC (bad learns, not using the toggle bit, too many/few repeats). I don't even know what model URC you have, so loading the correct pronto hex may or may not be possible. You made the assumption it was the IR light frequency from the URC. This is simply wrong, which I've been trying to explain.

If you think I'm full of crap, that's ok too. I don't mind a good discussion that brings out all the technical details.

Bottom line is many people are successfully using all kinds of remotes with the Echo, including URC, Harmony and others with no issues whatsoever. So it really doesn't matter what remote you buy. It should work fine, especially if it has built-in MCE codes.

EDIT: Ok, this is getting weird. Every time I type M C E, it gets changed to WMC. Is the board doing this or am I losing my mind?

[Madcodger]

Well, thanks! I suspect you are right - it's something beyond interference. I'm not sure what, but it is aggravating. I may try a Xantech and blaster as I have one on another system. I do appreciate your input! Will report back when I know more...

[barnabas1969]

@Madcodger: I can't comment on what Dave has been telling you other than I believe he's a pretty smart guy with a lot of experience with IR remote controls. However, I can comment on the IR reception of the Echo. In my experience, the Echo does not respond well to any IR remote control. I tried several, include the one that came with the Echo. The Echo just didn't respond as well to IR commands as any other device I own.

But I will say that the lighting in your room, and the TV display can affect the ability for IR devices to work well. Fluorescent lighting, plasma display panels, and LCD displays with fluorescent back-lights all interfere with IR reception. Try moving the Echo to a place where it does see any light from these sources (including reflected light from objects in front of the Echo), or eliminate fluorescent lights that cause a problem (replace them with LED or incandescent bulbs).

[Madcodger]

Thank you! I think the answer may be to try another method of receiving IR for the Echo, such as a better receiver and rebroadcast directly into the Echo itself, based on the possible problems you note having some effect. Will keep you posted...

[Limpice]

I been using a regular WMC remote to run the Echo https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+IR+r ... 7785355881



Make sure you get a universal remote HP makes two of them. If you get the universal one you can control the volume up & down on your TV.

[Madcodger]

Thanks! I had no idea HP made a Universal. I have an old HP remote from a Touchsmart, but it is not programmable (can't learn TV codes).