So now what? Move on?

[RealCodeGuy]

I bought a Tivo off Woot last year and tried it for a few months. It was miserably slow and frustrating to use in my opinion. It had to be constantly rebooted for it to remained connected to the network, it just seemed half baked for as long as they've been around.

[haydongreenbutton]

Roamio is supposed (*lesson learned from Ceton) to be coming out with remote viewing in their Plus/Pro models. Think Slingbox without the box. (Only IOS/Android though, no PC client was mentioned - lame.) That's something I'd really want that's impossible to do with protected content on Media Center.

That's not impossible - WMC is just a PlayReady client, and it would be possible to write a PlayReady client for Android. The question is whether it would be commercially feasible.

That will get you the native unencrypted stream. TiVo has got transcoding hardware on board so smaller pipes and other devices can play along. Intel Quick Sync could help. PlayReady is not a free or hobbyist solution. One licensing option was:

Fees
$50,000 one-time license fee, due upon agreement execution
$25,000 annual maintenance fee, due upon the anniversary of the agreement effective date

So looks like it could be done with standard and available hardware. I'm surprised. But at what cost!

Frankly it'd be easier/more feasible to crack PlayReady.

[Sammy2]

Wow, you can buy a lot of PC hardware for that price, add comskip and roll your own. What can the Roamio Pro do that WMC can't? besides having an extender. (not being a smart @#$, just trying to learn)

Roamio is supposed (*lesson learned from Ceton) to be coming out with remote viewing in their Plus/Pro models. Think Slingbox without the box. (Only IOS/Android though, no PC client was mentioned - lame.) That's something I'd really want that's impossible to do with protected content on Media Center.

Point taken about how much PC hardware you could buy. I am really not looking forward to the day when I have to give up my 16TB of storage because of 'progress'. Media Center made it possible to create a DVR with as much capacity as you wanted and were willing to spend. With no stupid fees - all of the money went into improving hardware not silly subscriptions.

But with that, my Echos are unplugged and wrapped. Now sitting in a cardboard box full of other things that will probably just get thrown away on the next major cleaning. If Ceton does release future firmware updates maybe I'll take them out. But I'm solely using Xbox now.

The ONE thing that should port over from Android to the current Echo is six months of Freescale video decoder improvements. And that was probably one of our biggest gripes about the thing. (I also suspect that was a big reason it was so unstable.)

Toss 'em my way. I'll pay for postage.

[EZEd]

So, to sum it all up:

Softsled.

Yeah I asked about this early in the Echo debacle and Eric said it would be darned near impossible. My thinking was it would have been better for them to come out with a software solution only and let us worry about our individual hardware than for them to try and do a hardware solution that also requires software in addition to. I was looked upon as a crazed maniac. So I guess home audio/video distribution that includes protected content is either going to become a rather expensive proposition (ala TiVO and MSO whole house) or you can be allowed to trudge along with PC based in its current form with no future growth.

Maybe Ceton and SiliconDust will come out with a Metro app that we can connect our cablecard devices directly to Win8 and not need media center anymore...hahaha it could happen. With that and native remote control integration on the Metro start screen Win8 could be pretty good.

[Sammy2]

So, to sum it all up:

Softsled.

Yeah I asked about this early in the Echo debacle and Eric said it would be darned near impossible. My thinking was it would have been better for them to come out with a software solution only and let us worry about our individual hardware than for them to try and do a hardware solution that also requires software in addition to. I was looked upon as a crazed maniac. So I guess home audio/video distribution that includes protected content is either going to become a rather expensive proposition (ala TiVO and MSO whole house) or you can be allowed to trudge along with PC based in its current form with no future growth.

Maybe Ceton and SiliconDust will come out with a Metro app that we can connect our cablecard devices directly to Win8 and not need media center anymore...hahaha it could happen. With that and native remote control integration on the Metro start screen Win8 could be pretty good.

I think what the intent was that it would be difficult to develop software for unknown hardware configurations, especially android stick computers. I sort of remember this being discussed a few months ago and I could be wrong in my understanding and/or interpretation.

[ucfknight]

I may have to start looking into the Xfinity X2 platform when it comes out. It looks like they are making some intriguing additions to the old cable box.

[Sammy2]

Charterland just "upgraded" their STB's and there's not much improvement going on here.

[wanabefree]

The Heading says it all.
So Now What ? Move on?
I believe that was the message Motz put out basically putting out an advance obituary for the whole Q & Echo project. Its done no meaningful further development will come. They tried to tame a Lion and failed. Get used to it and Move on.

So Now What, well you can keep dreaming of a magic firmware upgrade that will fix all the short comings but the current hardware can not do any more than it already does. For some that is good enough but most of us want fare more. So Move on, either stick with the echo or go out and get an XBOX 360 that is all there is and probably for Windows MCE all there ever will be.

Am I happy about it , Sure but it is out of my control. Does Ceton Owe me anything maybe but probably not. I only purchased one Echo during the Beta @ $129.00 so I just have to accept that it was a bad investment and move on. Would I by another, probably not unless Something changed and I do not see that happening.

Some have suggested Tivo as there preferred alternative. I see that as a non starter,my #2 reason for using MCE & Sage before that was to eliminate unwanted costs. I have a great disdain for cable companies forcing us to use there overpriced set top boxes. Now if TIVO would maybe sell there product as a onetime software solution maybe that would be a good thing. There hardware and licensing is too expensive for me. In the perfect world I would have one DVR/server and all the rest would be built into my TV. No per TV extra costs. Of course I would want true ala carte channel choices too.

My crystal ball tells me that it will not be long before all TV is IP TV and cable companies will have to rethink there distribution and pricing. But Who knows I am just disappointed that Ceton has failed to produce what they promised.

[EZEd]

So, to sum it all up:

Softsled.

I sure do wish the current MCX code and the work that Microsoft had already done back in the Vista days to do Softsled would somehow mysteriously get "leaked" to the internet and then we here at TGB could take up the cause of finishing Softsled as open source. And while they're at it leak Playready so that we could build something to get rid of these hiddeous CCI flags.

[adam1991]

Some have suggested Tivo as there preferred alternative. I see that as a non starter

I don't understand. ???

,my #2 reason for using MCE & Sage before that was to eliminate unwanted costs.

Does that somehow relate to Tivo?

I have a great disdain for cable companies forcing us to use there overpriced set top boxes. Now if TIVO would maybe sell there product as a onetime software solution maybe that would be a good thing.

Ummmmm.....they do sell it as a onetime solution. No ongoing costs.

There hardware and licensing is too expensive for me.

Well, at least they seem to have done a good job with the software.

In the perfect world I would have one DVR/server and all the rest would be built into my TV. No per TV extra costs. Of course I would want true ala carte channel choices too.

...and a hot babe serving you drinks while you do it. Keep dreaming. Content owners won't allow it under any circumstances I can imagine.

My crystal ball tells me that it will not be long before all TV is IP TV and cable companies will have to rethink there distribution and pricing.

Yep.

[nick]

Some have suggested Tivo as there preferred alternative. I see that as a non starter

I don't understand. ???

,my #2 reason for using MCE & Sage before that was to eliminate unwanted costs.

Does that somehow relate to Tivo?

I think the point is that the Tivo solution is a LOT more expensive and not compatible with existing MCE solutions. You have to pay lifetime fees for both the STB and each mini extender in addition to the HW fees. Their pricing currently lists $1099 for the DVR w/lifetime and $249 per mini with lifetime.

[wanabefree]

Some have suggested Tivo as there preferred alternative. I see that as a non starter

I don't understand. ???

,my #2 reason for using MCE & Sage before that was to eliminate unwanted costs.

Does that somehow relate to Tivo?

I think the point is that the Tivo solution is a LOT more expensive and not compatible with existing MCE solutions. You have to pay lifetime fees for both the STB and each mini extender in addition to the HW fees. Their pricing currently lists $1099 for the DVR w/lifetime and $249 per mini with lifetime.

I did not do a good job of proof reading my post.

TIVO for me is a non starter because its just another money pit with monthly or lifetime fees that I want to avoid. Thus a non starter for ME.

The second quote should be My #1 reason for using MCE & Sage tv before that was to eliminate monthly fees and control my hardware costs.

As posted above my point is as stated the TIVO solution is a lot more expensive and even the lifetime option is limited to that one device.

[adam1991]

There is really no such things as a "lifetime fee".

No matter what they call it, a Tivo Roamio Pro is $1100 to buy and own. Period. That may be too expensive for your tastes, but recognize that it's yours at that point, no extra money required. At that point, it's not a "money pit" at all since you're not throwing any money into it. You just use it, and it just works.

[wanabefree]

There is really no such things as a "lifetime fee".

No matter what they call it, a Tivo Roamio Pro is $1100 to buy and own. Period. That may be too expensive for your tastes, but recognize that it's yours at that point, no extra money required. At that point, it's not a "money pit" at all since you're not throwing any money into it. You just use it, and it just works.

Ok, I understand that but you still have extra fees or costs to add extenders for a multi-room solution. I have Zero interest in spending $1100.00 + in the first place
As I said non starter, Moving ON .

[adam1991]

You have extra costs, but not extra ongoing fees.

$1100 for the Tivo itself. $250 for each Mini. That's simply the price.

To focus on the fact that they also sell it at a loss while asking you for money every month to make up the difference (while holding your Tivo hostage), is irrelevant.

I don't like ongoing fees, either. So I pay for stuff up front. I don't lease cars; that's a huge "fee" that people get suckered into. I would likewise pay for a Tivo system up front, if that's what I wished to have.

[slowbiscuit]

There is really no such things as a "lifetime fee".

No matter what they call it, a Tivo Roamio Pro is $1100 to buy and own. Period. That may be too expensive for your tastes, but recognize that it's yours at that point, no extra money required. At that point, it's not a "money pit" at all since you're not throwing any money into it. You just use it, and it just works.

Ok, I understand that but you still have extra fees or costs to add extenders for a multi-room solution. I have Zero interest in spending $1100.00 + in the first place
As I said non starter, Moving ON .

It's really more like $800 plus the cost of a hard drive upgrade (that you might have lying around) - the Roamio Plus and Pro are identical other than HD size (1TB vs. 3TB) and you can slap any drive up to 3TB into a Plus and the box will format and load the software on it for you. Very simple. Box costs $400 (I've seen it as cheap as $360 so far) and lifetime service can be had for $400 with the coupon code PLSR, believe you have to get the box at a site other than Tivo to use that when you activate service.

The real issue for me is the cost of the Minis, $249 is just a flat-out ripoff but they charge what they think the market will bear.

[Beefcake550]

Can someone please explain why the regular Roamio is not to be considered? It seems like a no brainer to me. Oh, and I realize that the others have 2 more tuners. I honestly don't think I need more than 4 total tuners. However, if the update for the minis that allows on the fly tuner allocation doesn't come soon, I would certainly change my mind.

As far as "cost" for an existing WMC user, I have a problem with someone quoting $1100.

Here's my breakdown:
Roamio DVR = $200/$400/$600 (regular, plus, pro)
Lifetime Fee = $500

One major assumption I'm going to make about people switching from WMC to Roamio is that they already have a hard drive that they can put in the Roamio that they were using for WMC. I fit into this catergory and please don't flame for this assumption. I know what happens when you "assume" something.

So, if I look at the lowest cost, it's $200+$500+hard drive = $700. The cost difference between whole home DVR and cable card from TWC is $29-$2.50=$26.50 It will take 27 months to recoup the cost. Now, the more likely setup also includes another cable box/mini. @ $250 per mini, and $10.25/month per "extender", with 1, it takes 26 months to recoup ($950/36.75). With 2 extenders, it's 26 months ($1200/$47). The lesson here is it takes about 2 yrs, 2 months to make it "worth it" to get a Tivo Roamio setup.

I will seriously consider this setup as I evaluate what I want to do.

Just for fun, the roamio pro system with 2 extenders takes($1600/$47) = 34 months to see the "payoff".

[xnappo]

One major assumption I'm going to make about people switching from WMC to Roamio is that they already have a hard drive that they can put in the Roamio that they were using for WMC. I fit into this catergory and please don't flame for this assumption. I know what happens when you "assume" something.

I realize that there are better places to ask, but can you play files moved off the Roamio to a server directly over the network? Or do you still have to transfer them back before you watch them?

xnappo

[Sammy2]

The Heading says it all.
So Now What ? Move on?
I believe that was the message Motz put out basically putting out an advance obituary for the whole Q & Echo project. Its done no meaningful further development will come. They tried to tame a Lion and failed. Get used to it and Move on.

So Now What, well you can keep dreaming of a magic firmware upgrade that will fix all the short comings but the current hardware can not do any more than it already does. For some that is good enough but most of us want fare more. So Move on, either stick with the echo or go out and get an XBOX 360 that is all there is and probably for Windows MCE all there ever will be.

Am I happy about it , Sure but it is out of my control. Does Ceton Owe me anything maybe but probably not. I only purchased one Echo during the Beta @ $129.00 so I just have to accept that it was a bad investment and move on. Would I by another, probably not unless Something changed and I do not see that happening.

Some have suggested Tivo as there preferred alternative. I see that as a non starter,my #2 reason for using MCE & Sage before that was to eliminate unwanted costs. I have a great disdain for cable companies forcing us to use there overpriced set top boxes. Now if TIVO would maybe sell there product as a onetime software solution maybe that would be a good thing. There hardware and licensing is too expensive for me. In the perfect world I would have one DVR/server and all the rest would be built into my TV. No per TV extra costs. Of course I would want true ala carte channel choices too.

My crystal ball tells me that it will not be long before all TV is IP TV and cable companies will have to rethink there distribution and pricing. But Who knows I am just disappointed that Ceton has failed to produce what they promised.

Mine was $159, shipped. I don't think any of them were $129. If some were, I want my $30 back!

[shortcut3d]

The Ceton hardware (2 x Echo + InfiniTV6 ETH) I have cost as much as a Roamio Plus and Mini. I also have plenty of Seagate NAS drives to upgrade the Roamio to the max 3TB. Now factor in my Intel NUC i5 HTPC and you have a Tivo Lifetime Subscription. So TiVo is not always more expensive than WMC. I'm not even factoring in fancy things like a 32TB Synology 1813+ NAS for storage.

In the end, keep calm and carry on.