State of the Echo #3

[ajhieb]

The fundamental part of "being worthwhile to them" is "covering their investment" in the case. I'm not sure that's a given here. But hey, if it floats your boat to think of yourselves as the gracious user base who wouldn't sue a fly, carry on.

The fundamental part of being worthwhile to them is will they get paid. That has little if anything to do with the net worth of the company they plan on suing as you seem to imply. That's the point I was making, and if you're too daft to comprehend that after it's been spelled out for you, I can't help you.

But by all means, keep complaining that Ceton product threads keep popping up on the "new post" page, all while sustaining this pointless conversation (about a product you don't own, from a company that you don't patronize) guaranteeing that ceton product threads will continue to stay atop the new post page. Brilliant.

Also, I'd sue them in a heartbeat if I thought it would benefit me. But doing it individually will cost more than I would ever recoup. But keep trying to misstate my position. You're doing a bang-up job of making yourself look foolish.

[ucfknight]

At this point, if it were all purely technical in nature then it seems like they'd get past a lot of it in 8+ months (whatever it's been), at least enough to have a beta out to the masses. If it truly is technical in nature only and we're still sitting here way before the starting line, then either complete incompetence (poor engineers/programmers) or inability (hardware deficiencies beyond their control) would seem to be to blame. That they - way back in January (?) - made it sound like making Android work on a TV interface was their biggest hurdle, makes them now look like they were either lying or they're just completely incompetent.

The Ceton employees seem like nice guys, but I just don't think as a company they are technically capable of pulling off what they have promised. They had great ideas for the extender, but they made horrible choices in selecting hardware woefully under-powered for the task. Since then, their software team has proven incapable/incompetent for the task of trying to get this hardware to do much of what they promised. It is very clear by now that Ceton just doesn't have the expertise or the resources to get this working in a timely manner (or maybe ever). And now they don't even have the guts/courtesy to keep their customers updated on their lack of progress.

[ajhieb]

Are you sure there was no disclaimer on the source document that said "features subject to change?"

Or perhaps "preliminary?"

Go back and find the ORIGINAL RELEASE SPECS and you'll find that the Echo doesn't meet them. Not the PRErelease specs. the ORIGINAL RELEASE SPECS.

[ucfknight]

Are you sure there was no disclaimer on the source document that said "features subject to change?"

Or perhaps "preliminary?"

Yes. That's why I said, "Here are the original claims for the Ceton Echo taken from their pre-release product data sheet"

These were the original claims they made about what the Echo was going to be able to do. They were the preliminary claims.
Some things changed with the hardware (removal of composite AV for instance)
I didn't post this for this silly lawsuit talk. I posted it to show Ceton's grand vision for the product. A vision that has fallen way short in reality in the almost 1 year since the beta started.
They knocked some of the things off the list before the final release because they couldn't meet those goals.
Other things that were kept on the final release of specs are still not met.

[Sammy2]

If a suit would be filed it would be dismissed on Summary Judgement as there really are minimal losses and certainly no damages. In order to have a case that an attorney would want to take you have to have damages as that is where the big money is. Who was actually injured by the echo? Who had loss of consortium? How about loss of employment? A death? Personal Injury? Certainly anybody can file a law suit at any time but any reasonable attorney wouldn't even bother with such a case because there's no damages for the attorney to base a large 40% cut on.

[ucfknight]

Are you sure there was no disclaimer on the source document that said "features subject to change?"

Or perhaps "preliminary?"

When I saw that same PDF, I'm pretty sure it said something to that effect too... maybe it was a watermark.

It says "Preliminary"
I never said it was the spec sheet on release date.
These were the original expected features of the extender.

[ajhieb]

If a suit would be filed it would be dismissed on Summary Judgement as there really are minimal losses and certainly no damages. In order to have a case that an attorney would want to take you have to have damages as that is where the big money is. Who was actually injured by the echo? Who had loss of consortium? How about loss of employment? A death? Personal Injury? Certainly anybody can file a law suit at any time but any reasonable attorney wouldn't even bother with such a case because there's no damages for the attorney to base a large 40% cut on.

Stop it Sammy2 Just stop it.

That is PATENTLY FALSE. Go look at the Apple suit. Apple was sued and the plaintiffs won, and that case disproves every single point you've tried to make.

All of your assumptions are based on attorney taking the case on a percentage basis, which is not always how lawsuits work. This isn't some crappy Law & Order episode.

I can hire an attorney right now to take the case. I have several friends who would probably do it for next to nothing, but I would cash in a favor for something so trivial when I can save up those favors for speeding tickets and the like.

So PLEASE stop making blatantly FALSE statements about topics you know little to nothing about. STOP IT!

[grinchy]

Other things that were kept on the final release of specs are still not met.

I guess that's what I need to see - I don't really care for the lawsuit talk either. This is for my own understanding - I followed the Echo for a long time from pre-release, beta and final release and don't have the up-arms feeling whatsoever like some others do.

I'm surprised I missed the big issue since I did follow closely, so I'm just trying to understand what I apparently missed. Ceton seemed pretty clear to me that they will support at launch what's listed on their website; and they did, for better or for worse.

[Sammy2]

At $400+/hour around here I'm not hiring an attorney on an hourly basis for a $159 product. It is not worth my time and especially my financial resources to take a risk on a suit that would be most likely dismissed, have a settlement of $159 plus legal fees or worse it ends up with ME paying ceton's legal fees.

That said, which Apple suit should I look at? I'm interested in it but Apple is a big target.

[ajhieb]

Other things that were kept on the final release of specs are still not met.

I guess that's what I need to see - I don't really care for the lawsuit talk either. This is for my own understanding - I followed the Echo for a long time from pre-release, beta and final release and don't have the up-arms feeling whatsoever like some others do.

I'm surprised I missed the big issue since I did follow closely, so I'm just trying to understand what I apparently missed. Ceton seemed pretty clear to me that they will support at launch what's listed on their website; and they did, for better or for worse.

Well for starters their website specs have changed since the launch. That's the problem.

Among other things AT LAUNCH they promised:
- 1080p playback.
- A web Browser
- WMV9 & VC-1 codec support.

There is NO browser.
1080p playback isn't anywhere close to being "production" reliable.
WMV9 & VC-1 support is pretty much non existent.

They didn't add support for what was listed on their website, they simply removed items from their website that they didn't support. That isn't the same thing.

[ajhieb]

At $400+/hour around here I'm not hiring an attorney on an hourly basis for a $159 product. It is not worth my time and especially my financial resources to take a risk on a suit that would be most likely dismissed, have a reward of $159 plus legal fees or worse it ends up with ME paying ceton's legal fees.

That said, which Apple suit should I look at? I'm interested in it but Apple is a big target.

READ THE THREAD to see the suit, Sammy2 (I would have hoped you would have done that prior to chiming in like you always do to usually parrot what's already been said) it is on the previous page, including links. Knock yourself out.

Also, if you'd bother to read the thread you'd know...

[Moderator note: comments violating CoC removed]

[RyC]

Take a chill pill man, it's not worth it

[KFish]

Take a chill pill man

I agree, this is getting to be like Thread Rage.

[Sammy2]

Wow. Just wow.

First off I am talking about a suit on a contingency basis and then you state that some suits are done on an hourly billing basis so I respond to that stating that it isn't feasible to do that and you fly off the handle? I ask about which Apple lawsuit to which you are referring and you refer me to the previous page of this thread and maybe I missed it but I didn't see the link unless it is in one of the linked YouTube videos that I didn't watch. If it is I apologize in advance for missing it but I do prefer to read about such things rather than watch a video about it if it is in the video.

[barnabas1969]

Yeah, you guys are really going off the charts.

I am STILL so happy that I got a refund!

[dabretty]

Yeah, this dude is crazy. Hopefully he doesn't grab one of his lawyer friends to sue me for defamation!

[KFish]

What was the topic of this thread anyways?

[crawfish]

The fundamental part of "being worthwhile to them" is "covering their investment" in the case. I'm not sure that's a given here. But hey, if it floats your boat to think of yourselves as the gracious user base who wouldn't sue a fly, carry on.

The fundamental part of being worthwhile to them is will they get paid. That has little if anything to do with the net worth of the company they plan on suing as you seem to imply. That's the point I was making, and if you're too daft to comprehend that after it's been spelled out for you, I can't help you.

But by all means, keep complaining that Ceton product threads keep popping up on the "new post" page, all while sustaining this pointless conversation (about a product you don't own, from a company that you don't patronize) guaranteeing that ceton product threads will continue to stay atop the new post page. Brilliant.

Also, I'd sue them in a heartbeat if I thought it would benefit me. But doing it individually will cost more than I would ever recoup. But keep trying to misstate my position. You're doing a bang-up job of making yourself look foolish.

I admit, it's my fault for not managing to ignore this pointless discussion, but when it shows up every time I visit the forum, sometimes it's hard to resist, even though the outcome is so predictable. So, as I ended my last message, "carry on". And I do and did mean "carry on".

[barnabas1969]

What was the topic of this thread anyways?

It began 6 months ago to update us on Ceton's progress with the Echo. Since then, we haven't heard much from Ceton. The natives are getting restless.

[ajhieb]

So all of that being said, does anyone want to continue ignoring reality and arguing against a positiion that doesn't even exist?!?

Or can we all just move on and go back to listening to the deafening silence from Ceton?