Echo vs. DMA2100

[Sammy2]

Actually you didn't really take it off topic; maybe I did. The thread is Echo vs DMA 2100 and these are in fact comparisons or differences.

[kingwr]

The nice thing about standby on the DMA2100 for me is not that it makes the DMA2100 take less power, but that it kills the output to the HDMI, and then the TV turns itself off on "No Signal." If the Echo had CEC, maybe no problem, but Echo doesn't have CEC (nor does my TV, for that matter).

Also, the DMA2100 remote is programmable, so there is a TV power switch. So you have multiple options on the DMA2100, and zero on the Echo.

[barnabas1969]

I don't understand the need for standby mode. This thing uses 5W all the time. Standby would drop that to what, 1W? Older extenders probably push 100W when being used and overall use more power. Just turn off the TV.

The problem is not the power used by the Echo, it's the startup time. I don't leave my HTPC running all the time (saving 165 watts consumed by the PC). The HTPC sleeps most of the time. It only takes 1-2 seconds for the HTPC to wake up and be ready to go. The Echo needs a "standby" mode so that it will startup quickly, send the WOL packet to the HTPC, and connect to Media Center. I want the Echo to be ready to go in 15 seconds or less.

Sammy, it sounds like you must leave your HTPC running 24x7. If that's what you do, then you can leave your Echo running 24x7 too. But some of us want the PC to sleep. If the Echo is connected and turned on, the PC will never sleep. So, we turn off the Echo. The PC goes to sleep a few minutes later. Then, when we turn on the Echo... it takes too long for the Echo to startup and be ready to go. Standby mode would make the startup time shorter.

Understand now?

[Sammy2]

I don't understand the need for standby mode. This thing uses 5W all the time. Standby would drop that to what, 1W? Older extenders probably push 100W when being used and overall use more power. Just turn off the TV.

The problem is not the power used by the Echo, it's the startup time. I don't leave my HTPC running all the time (saving 165 watts consumed by the PC). The HTPC sleeps most of the time. It only takes 1-2 seconds for the HTPC to wake up and be ready to go. The Echo needs a "standby" mode so that it will startup quickly, send the WOL packet to the HTPC, and connect to Media Center. I want the Echo to be ready to go in 15 seconds or less.

Sammy, it sounds like you must leave your HTPC running 24x7. If that's what you do, then you can leave your Echo running 24x7 too. But some of us want the PC to sleep. If the Echo is connected and turned on, the PC will never sleep. So, we turn off the Echo. The PC goes to sleep a few minutes later. Then, when we turn on the Echo... it takes too long for the Echo to startup and be ready to go. Standby mode would make the startup time shorter.

Understand now?

Okay. I do this. My HTPC pulls 20 watts or less at idle so I don't bother putting it to sleep.

[staknhalo]

I don't understand the need for standby mode. This thing uses 5W all the time. Standby would drop that to what, 1W? Older extenders probably push 100W when being used and overall use more power. Just turn off the TV.

The problem is not the power used by the Echo, it's the startup time. I don't leave my HTPC running all the time (saving 165 watts consumed by the PC). The HTPC sleeps most of the time. It only takes 1-2 seconds for the HTPC to wake up and be ready to go. The Echo needs a "standby" mode so that it will startup quickly, send the WOL packet to the HTPC, and connect to Media Center. I want the Echo to be ready to go in 15 seconds or less.

Sammy, it sounds like you must leave your HTPC running 24x7. If that's what you do, then you can leave your Echo running 24x7 too. But some of us want the PC to sleep. If the Echo is connected and turned on, the PC will never sleep. So, we turn off the Echo. The PC goes to sleep a few minutes later. Then, when we turn on the Echo... it takes too long for the Echo to startup and be ready to go. Standby mode would make the startup time shorter.

Understand now?

Okay. I do this. My HTPC pulls 20 watts or less at idle so I don't bother putting it to sleep.

For some people though using as less power is just as important/fun/challenge as how good it looks/performs/ect. Even if it equates to .01¢ a year. I am one of those people. Even if you must use your main HTPC/server on 24x7 it still equates to other shit/devices. P.S. I wish the forums could let me say shit when shit is non-offensive shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit

[STC]

^ You're burning up more energy in nutritional value in your stomach just thinking about saving .01c

Damn, I just spent .03c

[Crash2009]

But some of us want the PC to sleep. If the Echo is connected and turned on, the PC will never sleep. So, we turn off the Echo.

Barnabus, anything useful to you in this article? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... S.10).aspx

[barnabas1969]

But some of us want the PC to sleep. If the Echo is connected and turned on, the PC will never sleep. So, we turn off the Echo.

Barnabus, anything useful to you in this article? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... S.10).aspx

Yes, I'm aware of the powercfg command. I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. My PC sleeps/wakes perfectly. But when there is an extender connected, Windows prevents sleep. This is the expected behavior. It is not a problem that requires fixing. Basically, what I want, is for the Echo to go into a "standby" state when I press the power button on the remote. I don't care if it continues to pull 5 watts of power... I just want it to drop the connection to the PC. Then, when I press the power button again, I want the Echo to send a WOL packet, and re-establish the connection to the PC. Nothing more, nothing less.

My HP X280N extenders can do this, and so can the DMA-2100. Why can't the Echo?

[Crash2009]

Yes, I'm aware of the powercfg command. I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me.

I just thought there might be something in that article that may be of help to you.

I just thought that if powercfg can prevent a device from waking our computers, then maybe it could also prevent a device from keeping our computers awake. Then, when we decide, it's convienient for us, allow the device to wake the computer up again. I suppose my last comment was more of a question than a suggestion.

[barnabas1969]

OK, but the extender device itself is not what keeps the PC awake. Media Center does that, when an extender is connected. You wouldn't want to change that behavior, or your computer could go so sleep while you're watching something on the extender.

The desire for the Echo to have a "standby" mode is for fast startup, that's all. The X280N stays in "sleep" state unless the power is disconnected. From sleep state, the X280N takes 30 seconds to be ready to go (when the PC is already on). It takes 5-10 seconds longer if the PC is off, because I have a script running on my router that looks for the X280N to "phone home", and then sends a WOL packet to the PC. The script only checks once every 5 seconds. From power disconnected, I think the X280N took 77 seconds if I remember correctly. The Echo starts in something like 45-50 seconds. I'd like to see it beat the X280N for the startup time, so anything less than 30 seconds would be good. I'm hoping for 15 seconds.

[rmalbers]

Yes, exactly! Basically, standby mode turns the extender into more like a cable box, always ready but not using host/PC resources.
What about the volume thing, anyone else seeing this?
What about the heat, I can't believe how hot this thing runs?

I have never seen the heat issue posted before, sounds very dangerous. I would shut it down, contact Ceton and open a ticket for hardware replacement.

In beta mine ran much hotter than now. IDK if ceton did anything specific or if it was my imagination or if better f/w has cooled it down, but now it is barely above ambient.

I've been measuring the temp on the top of the case (on the outside of the case) of my Echo around the middle, the temp is around 102 Degrees F. It's amazing to me that something that draws that little power can run that hot. I guess everyones opinion of what's hot might be different so I though I would messure it.

[Sammy2]

102F is the typical temp of a discrete video card. It is maybe a bit on the high side but within an acceptable range. Mine doesn't "feel" that hot but it is a bit above skin temperature of 97F or whatever so maybe it is running about 102F. That doesn't concern me though.

[staknhalo]

102F is the typical temp of a discrete video card. It is maybe a bit on the high side but within an acceptable range. Mine doesn't "feel" that hot but it is a bit above skin temperature of 97F or whatever so maybe it is running about 102F. That doesn't concern me though.

It only matters what the thermal threshold of the chip is rated at.....102 could be below that or above that. Obviously if it's above that it's an issue. I have no clue what it (rated thermal threshold) is for the Echo chipset, just saying. Because one thing might be fine at 102, doesn't mean all chips are designed to handle that.

[Sammy2]

Package and Temperature
21 x 21mm, 0.8 mm BGA
Consumer (-20C to +105C), up to 1.2 GHz
Industrial (-40C to +105C), up to 800 MHz
Automotive (-40C to +125C), AEC-Q100, up to 1 GHz

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... ode=i.MX6D

[staknhalo]

Package and Temperature
21 x 21mm, 0.8 mm BGA
Consumer (-20C to +105C), up to 1.2 GHz
Industrial (-40C to +105C), up to 800 MHz
Automotive (-40C to +125C), AEC-Q100, up to 1 GHz

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... ode=i.MX6D

Well then all's well.

[Sammy2]

Yeah, 105C is about 220F.. That's toasty and will cause second degree burns.

[rmalbers]

Ok, my Echo is going back. The only advantage I can see (in my situation - COX cable) that the Echo has over the DMA2100 is the ability to handle the MPEG-4 channels, and I really wanted it for those channels, there are several that I really would like to watch. It works most of the time but it's still a little too flacky for me and this is for my main TV, so I need it to work. Last night, out of the blue, I get the 'unable to display protected content' (I think that's what it was) while watching live TV, on all the channels! I shut it down and turned my DMA2100 back on. I tried other functions on the Echo (but I mainly just watch TV/recorded TV) like view 'other' video and really didn't find much that the echo would play (and the DMA2100 does). The photo part seemed fine. Also, the startup time is a lot longer than my DMA2100. The Music part seems to work fine too although it seems like the TV audio gets distorted sometimes also and then there is the volume level thing.

Anyway, I'll give it another try someday, maybe. If it it was $49 I would keep it for the MPEG-4 channels. I'm kind of surprised it's that hard to build an extender but I guess it is. It's really amazing how well the DMA2100 works, considering the age of the hardware, at this point I think I might just buy another one of them.

[kingwr]

I think I might just buy another [DMA2100].

Or you could buy two, even three, for spares and still have enough money leftover to pay for the additional electricity of the DMA2100s in standby!

[kingwr]

With the deadline for returns approaching, thought I would give the Echo one last shot with the latest firmware (0206).

As noted previously, the Echo is set for native resolution and "No Animated Transitions" to ensure a fair comparison with the DMA2100. I am also using the DMA2100's remote to put the Echo through its paces, since the Echo remote is a POS.

The UI is still not quite as responsive as the DMA2100, but no so much slower that it makes a difference. Color and saturation in the WTV playback is noticeably better but still not as good as the color in the UI (including the color in the thumbnails extracted from the WTV shows) or the color of playback of WTV files on the DMA2100. There is a noticeable flicker and a few lines of garbage at the top and bottom of the screen during TV playback. This could have a variety of causes (tuner, encoder, overscan settings), but it's worth pointing out that I don't get these problems on the DMA2100.

MPEG-2 files ripped from DVDs still stutter a lot, and MPEG-4 rip from Blu-Ray is still unplayable. Unfortunately, I didn't get to test the my home movies (DirectX 9 WMV files), which did not playback before, because the Echo locked up twice while playing DVD rips, and after the second time I didn't have the patience to reboot and continuing testing. Again, all this, except the Blu-Ray MPEG-4 rip, play smooth as silk on the DMA2100.

All hope is lost. I've got it boxed up an its going back. Very disappointing.

[barnabas1969]

Me too. I just submitted a support ticket asking for an RMA. They've had four months to make it work as promised.

If they manage to make it a value-added piece of equipment at some point in the future, I will buy another one. But, as it stands now, it adds no value over a Linksys or HP extender.