One TV Channel "Service is unavailable" - others OK?

[Aussie]

All,

Over the last couple of days WESH 2 Orlando has indicated that "Service is unavailable."

Here's my situation:
1) I am using over the air (OTA) reception from a large antenna. I am 7 miles from the broadcast antennas (signal strength is not an issue)
2) Channel 2 shows "5" signal strength on both HTPCs. It worked as of a couple of days ago.
3) Two HTPCs (different hardware designs, one Vista, one Windows 7 Pro) have both lost channel 2
4) Both PCs still pick up all the other channels as usual. (e.g., channels 6, 9 etc.)
5) A separate HD receiver is picking up WESH 2 just fine using the same antenna
6) I rescanned channels on one HTPC and it still did not receive WESH 2

Can anyone please suggest what else I can check/change so that I can receive WESH 2 and my recordings fire off correctly next week?

[dmagerl]

This sounds very much like a PSIP issue with the broadcaster. When you get good signal strength on MCE but no reception, and other TVs can tune the station, it just screams PSIP problem.

Unfortunately, its up to the chief engineer at the station to fix it. There's nothing you can do except give the engineering dept of the station a call/email and explain the issue. They'll either say "Oops, we made some changes and must have goofed something up", or they'll say, "No one else is reporting this, its your problem, go away". There's nothing you can do if they tell you to go away but most engineers are glad to hear from viewers and will at least try to help you. Be prepared for them to not know anything about MCE.

This might help out
http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wi ... enter.aspx

[barnabas1969]

Hi Aussie. I live in Central Florida and I use a combination of OTA tuners and QAM tuners.

I live in Melbourne (40 miles from the transmitter in Christmas, FL). I get WESH perfectly... full bars in the signal strength meter in WMC, and I get a perfect picture. I don't think your problem is PSIP as dmagerl pointed out. If that was the case, then I would be having problems too.

If you're only 7 miles from the transmitter site in Christmas, then you may have too much signal strength. You say that you are using a "large antenna". If you are in fact only 7 miles from Christmas, FL (which is where all but a few Orlando stations located their transmitters), then you should be using a very small antenna (like a pair of rabbit ears). It's entirely possible that you are over-driving the tuner in your HTPC's.

You should sign up at http://www.tvfool.com and ask for advice there regarding your antenna size/type/location/height.

[barnabas1969]

I should mention that I have a medium sized antenna on a 20' mast with an amplifier. I'm almost 6 times as far from the transmitters as you claim to be, and I get EVERY Orlando station perfectly. If you truly have a "large" antenna, then that may be your problem.

[dmagerl]

As Barnabas indicated, since other MCE units are getting WESH fine, it cant be a PSIP problem.

I'm stumped. It could be a tropo-skip issue. They broadcast on ch 11, hi-vhf, which is subject to that, but then the other TV shouldnt be receiving it either. It could also be multipath and the TV just has a better tuner that can handle a greater amount of multipath than your computer tuner. But I dont think thats likely even though a lot of people say their computer tuner is worse than their TV's tuner.

As barnabas said, it could be overload and the TV could be better at handling it than the computer.

Just for grins, if you go into Edit Channel/Edit Sources for that channel, what sources are listed? There should be one source for each tuner. There have been instances where things get goofed up and wrong sources are added in. When doing a signal strength scan, a good source can be selected and when watching a station a bad source could be picked.

Hmmmm.. tvfool.com lists 2 WESH digital stations, one on ch11 and the other on ch18. Either its screwed up or that could be the source of the problem (good source/bad source), but that doesnt explain why it only happened within the last 2 days.

[Aussie]

Thanks for the input everyone ... I am in contact with the WESH engineer ... he indicates "no problem" at his end so far.

damerl ... I agree that it screams PSIP ... I had these problems contnuously during the HDTV transition as the transmitters came online. Unfortunately I cannot get TSReader to run yet so I can't debug the issue myself.

I am familiar with Antennas ... overloading might be a problem I guess ... but it is odd that both HTPCs went offline aroudn the same time ... I could put and attenuator online I suppose. Maybe WESH doubled their power output on thursday But I think the engineer would have told me abut that.

Are any of you in Orlando (or evirons) having trouble with WESH 2 on Windows Media Center? Cause if I am the only person with the problem ... then it could easily be my setup. Or are all of you receiving WESH 2 on your Windows Media Centers? I understand that "hardware" receivers can receive WESH 2 ... mine does too ... It's Windows MEdia Center that is picky about PSIP (I think) ...

[barnabas1969]

It cannot be PSIP. If it was, then I would have the same problem as I am in the same television market as you are. It must be a signal strength/quality problem.

[Aussie]

dmagerl ... wrt "As Barnabas indicated, since other MCE units are getting WESH fine, it cant be a PSIP problem." Hmmm ... that throws a wrench in the works ... I'lll see what I find ...

[Aussie]

barnabas ... wrt "It cannot be PSIP. If it was, then I would have the same problem as I am in the same television market as you are. "

Can you confirm that you are using Windows Media Center and receiving WESH 2 please?

[dmagerl]

It cant be PSIP if barnabas is working.

If there really are 2 WESH, then that is the problem. Here in Chicago, WLS maintains 2 stations on ch7 and ch44. I can only receive one of them, the other has to be disabled in the Edit Channel screen. MCE combines the two freqs into 1 guide listing and its a crapshoot as to which one will be picked when the station is tuned in.

[barnabas1969]

Yes, I am using Windows Media Center. I have a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 tuner connected to my antenna. It is the only tuner connected to the antenna, and WESH works perfectly.

[ntward]

I am in the Orlando, FL market. I am able to tune in to NBC on WESH most of the time, but right now (Oct 14, 2012 at 8:15PM EST) Windows Media Center says that there is no TV signal.

I have 4 tuners on my WIN 7 machine.

Each tuner has full green bars of signal for this station and I AM able to get the station to come in on my TV connected to the same antenna. All of the other stations that I get are working properly on WMC.

FYI, WESH is a VHF station (I believe it is the only one in this market). I live near this address: 12500 Narcoossee Road Orlando, FL 32832.

[Aussie]

barnabas1969 – Thanks for confirming that you are using WMC. I also run the WinTV-HVR-2250, two each in two computers. As I was having other problems with my HTPC #2 I decided to rerun WMC setup ... and WESH 2 came online. It is perplexing as to why both of my HTPCs went offline at the same time ... I haven't changed the antenna setup (at all) and HTPC #1 is still not getting WESH; HTPC #2 is receiving. I will continue to debug.

ntward ... It sounds like you and I have exactly the same problem ... If you find anything ... please post back. I did rerun WMC setup again on my HTPC #2 and WESH is back. If your WMC isn't mission critical, rerun the setup and see what happens. I don't know why it hasn't afflicted barnabas1969 ... but good for him he if avoids it. I am in Oviedo.

I continue to work the issue.

[dmagerl]

Check your channel sources and see if all is correct. WESH runs two translators on 18 & 24 (at least thats what the FCC data says. I cant tell if they're operational), that if included in MCE's guide, will really mess up your reception if you're unable to receive them. This could result in recordings not working while live TV works, live TV working and recordings dont, intermittent reception problems as the bad source is selected, you get the idea.

[barnabas1969]

dmagerl may have a point. If you two are close enough to receive from both transmitters, then you could be affected while I am not (because I'm 40 miles away). If you edit sources in MCE, you may see more than one channel for WESH. Try disabling one (the weakest one) and see if the problem goes away.

[Aussie]

dmaagerl ... Not sure about your last post ... WESH 2 DTV 2.1, channel 11 does indeed also own DTV channel 18 ... which I am receiving. The WESH 2 engineer indicates that he checked PSIPs on both channels and they were the "same." Also note that up until a few days ago I was receiving everything OK. So either I developed a 1) hardware problem or a software problem (not impossible) ... THe WESH indicates no changes were made on teh transmission end. It is still odd that this problem somehow affects at least one or two other people too ... see http://www.avsforum.com/t/406377/orlando-fl-ota/3180

[dmagerl]

It certainly sounds like a PSIP problem after reading that link. You're not alone then.

[barnabas1969]

I'm still having no problems. In fact, I watched MeTV (2.2) last night for the first time. It had an old re-run of Remington Steele.

[dmagerl]

Could it be a tropo skip issue? This is the season for ducting. But then the station should reappear in early mornings and fade away at night.

[barnabas1969]

I don't know about tropo skip. I'm still leaning toward a problem with the fact that WESH has two different transmitter frequencies. You are located closer to the secondary transmitter, and it's possible that Media Center has configured itself to use that transmitter first (or only).

Aussie says that he's in Oviedo. According to this TVFool report, WESH's primary transmitter (channel 11) is located 9.9 miles from the center of Oviedo at 115 degrees. Their alternate transmitter (channel 18) is located 19.6 miles at 341 degrees.

These two transmitters are almost in exactly opposite directions from his location, so it is entirely possible that his antenna is picking up both of them.

I strongly recommend going into Edit Sources in Media Center, and disabling one or the other, depending on which direction your antenna is pointed.

Aussie, did you ever go look at your Edit Sources menu in Media Center? Here's how...

Go to the Guide, select the channel for WESH. Move to the left with the keyboard or arrow keys on your remote so that the channel name/number is highlighted. Press OK/enter on the channel name/number. Then, choose Edit Channel -> Edit Sources.

In the Edit Sources menu, you can see all of your tuners and the ACTUAL (11 or 18) channel numbers assign to them. You can un-check the ones that you want to disable, or move them up or down to change the tuner priority.

Determine what direction your antenna is pointed, and disable the channel (11 or 18) that is in the wrong direction.