Windows 8 is going to be the next Vista..IMO

[newfiend]

Ok.. Don't get me wrong. I think the OS will work fine. It won't be plagued by the lack of driver support that Vista had...However..
I came across this on Techspot http://www.techspot.com/news/48660-wof- ... ss-it.html
And I read the comments below the article.. read them yourself and see what you think..
In most of the posts it basically comes down to one thing.. Everone is skipping Windows 8 or moving to MAC..
Microsoft needs to take a look at the web and get their heads pulled out quickly! Almost everyones comments on Windows 8 are nagative with comments like "I will be sticking with Windows 7 or waiting for Windows 9"
One commenter said and I quote:
"Based on their release-or-die schedules, when's Win9 coming ? 2 years from now ? I might think about moving on from 7 then, but I'm definitely skipping 8 - it seems like a tablet peg for a desktop hole."
I agree with this 100% I think Windows 8 will be great for a tablet or phone but for a desktop PC...not so much.
I will admit I haven't tried Windows 8, It looks Ok.. but they removed features and now they are removing Aero.. I'm not a huge fan of Aero but I do like the glass look a bit. Why would you keep pulling features from the OS that make it better? If you want to have a default Windows 8 theme and disable Aero.. fine but let the enduser decide if they want it and let them enable it if they like..Why does everything have to be "removed"? The lack of Aero makes it feel like Windows 95 all over again and IMO that makes it look like butt..
Microsoft.. Ever heard of listening to the Customer base? Or taking a poll? WTH are they thinking?.. I just don't get it.
newfiend~

[adam1991]

just to throw this in: even Apple's done this sort of thing. They released 10.5, then awhile later released 10.6 and admitted that 10.6 is what they *wanted* 10.5 to be, but they couldn't get it together in time to make the marketing schedule.

They *all* want to force updates onto people, as a revenue stream. I'm waiting for both of them to rent you their OS, at which point they can stop renting you the older version and force you to the newer one.

As much as I like Apple, I have not bought into their iPod/iPhone/iPad scheme because using those items, that's exactly what Apple has achieved. They force their users to move up simply by not supporting the new shiny iToy on the older operating systems. "Oh, to use iToy 12 you must be running iTunes 27.1, which only runs on Mac OS 10.47.4 or later. Too bad for those of you who bought machines more than two years and one day ago; those machines can't run OS 10.47.4, they're limited to 10.47.3. If you want to run iTunes 27.1, you must buy a new machine." Apple has created a rental revenue stream in fact, if not in name.

I mean, good for them; that's how to make money. But I don't have to participate, do I. And I don't miss it one bit. I feel no need to jump in "just because everyone else is doing it". iPhone? Have you done the math on that? It costs $2200. Or, for the math-challenged, $99.

For those who haven't seen this and want a belly laugh:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple

Yeah--and me a Mac person for the last, um, 25 years now.

[barnabas1969]

Do I care about Aero? No. As long as I can tell the difference between the foreground app and background apps... that's all that matters.

Plus, one of the main apps that I use in my workplace is a Java thin client... and whenever I start it... Aero is disabled. So, what do I care about Aero? Who cares if I can see a blurry image of whatever is behind the title bar of an app? The only thing that matters is being able to determine which window is in the foreground. Every version of Windows has done that job just fine.

I haven't tried the Win8 preview. But, from what I've read, it won't be accepted as-is in the business world. No business wants a "metro" interface. My prediction is that corporations will skip Win8 (as they skipped Vista) if it does not have an option to disable "metro" and use the same desktop and taskbar that is presented in Win7. Plus, if it does not have any enhancements to Media Center, home enthusiasts like us will not use it until we are forced to do so. The only thing that has been improved in Win 8 Media Center (as I've seen in the forums) is that it adds a Closed Caption button that can be used without a remote control or keyboard (meaning that tablet users can see the captions).

I understand that the typical user does not use Media Center. However, Microsoft needs to understand that a lot of their bread and butter comes from commercial use of their OS. Commercial users will not adopt Win8 as it exists in the consumer preview. I believe that they WILL enable some way to bypass the "metro" interface, and use the desktop (with the "start" button) for commercial users.

[makryger]

Frankly, I don't care about aero either. But it is just one more symbolic representation of how Microsoft seems to be making decisions- "this isn't a popular feature, it's not making us money, so let's get rid of it, despite the fact that people still do use it." This type of decision has only two possible outcomes- for users like barnabas and me, they are inconsequential. For users like newfiend, they alienate him and make him want to switch to an OS that adds, not subtracts.

But the problem is, each of these features has some user base. While I don't care for aero, i use the start menu a heck of a lot. So Microsoft severely crippled my user experience by removing that. Barnabas may not user aero or the start menu, but he sure likes streaming his vob files without worrying about whether they will play. (Just guessing.) Each of these steps are alienating more users, and it just turns people off in general.

[barnabas1969]

Actually, I don't rip copies of movies to the HDD... so VOB's don't matter to me. Neither does any sort of audio codec (Dolby Digital, etc)... because I bitstream to an AVR and it does the audio decoding for me. I'm a little surprised about the removal of DVD playback, but I already have TMT5 for BluRay (and I prefer TMT for DVD... the Windows DVD player sucks in comparison), so that's not really an issue either.

[makryger]

Again, I'm just giving a random example... it could be an audio codec, it could be a video codec, it could be a visual ui thing, it could be a button. My point is: even though one person has no use for a feature, doesn't mean other people don't use it- so no matter what microsoft does, they are only alienating people by removing features.

[newfiend]

I guess I should have posted better.. It's not that they removed aero that bugs me,. (Well it does a little) .. But the fact that they keep removing stuff in general that make the OS either:
A) Function less (makes if feel and look old)
B) Disable features users already like.
I mean if you think about it.. MS is out to get our cash.. WHY, WHY, WHY are they making us HATE the new OS??
It makes no financial sense to me at all.. Windows 8 won't sell as good as Windows 7 did.. and that's gonna hurt MS...
I think it will be great for a tablet and phone. Those are hot right now and what users want and are buying. (Iphone, Ipad) so MS feels they need to compete on that level.. Fine. But Windows 8 just seems like a no brainer to skip on the Desktop PC, and thats where MS makes their $ Windows and Xbox... doesn't seem smart to me to cut the revenue stream in 1/2.. Maybe I'm over critical.. The general PC user does Web, Email and Social Networking.. and for that I am sure Windows 8 will be great. But for us power users..It's gonna be a skip I think and wait for Windows 9 to see what it brings.
newfiend~

[makryger]

I can understand the reasoning behind making a "media pack". Licensing dolby digital and dvd codecs to everyone, when only a small percentage of the market uses it, is just bad business. But it's also bad business to lose customers. And when someone puts a dvd into their W8 computer, and it just doesn't work, then they risk driving customers away. Now, if Microsoft played it smart, and when someone put in a DVD, they brought up a prompt that says "You must download an app to play DVDs. Choose from these fine options: VLC App (Free), TMT5 ($100), MS Media Pack ($20)", then i suppose it wouldn't be as bad.

[newfiend]

I can understand the reasoning behind making a "media pack". Licensing dolby digital and dvd codecs to everyone, when only a small percentage of the market uses it, is just bad business. But it's also bad business to lose customers. And when someone puts a dvd into their W8 computer, and it just doesn't work, then they risk driving customers away. Now, if Microsoft played it smart, and when someone put in a DVD, they brought up a prompt that says "You must download an app to play DVDs. Choose from these fine options: VLC App (Free), TMT5 ($100), MS Media Pack ($20)", then i suppose it wouldn't be as bad.

I agree with you here.. But.. Given the option..
A: Keep a fully functional OS OTB (Windows 7)
Vs.
B: Upgrade to a Half crippled OS OTB that Nickel and Dimes you for basic functionality already in Windows 7 (Windows 8)

My Question to you all would be... What would you do?
Seems like the general consensus online form a majority of people is keeping Windows 7 and skipping 8..
newfiend~

[makryger]

Ah yes, but when John Q. Public goes to the local Best Buy and see's all the new flashy laptops with touchscreens and only windows 8, he's not thinking "where's aero" or "where's the dvd player" until he gets home and tries playing a dvd, or Windows-Tabbing something, 3 days after his return period has ended.

[newfiend]

Ah yes, but when John Q. Public goes to the local Best Buy and see's all the new flashy laptops with touchscreens and only windows 8, he's not thinking "where's aero" or "where's the dvd player" until he gets home and tries playing a dvd, or Windows-Tabbing something, 3 days after his return period has ended.

True.. I think the OS is very Tablet Friendly as well as WP7/8.
Most people will just deal with it and move on. It's mostly us that notice every little thing removed and disabled that get annoyed.
For Power Users that build their own PC's etc.. I think a lot will stick with Windows 7.. Lets see how Windows 8 sales do after a few months.. I bet Windows 7 lisences still out sell 8.. At least for awhile. I could be completely wrong.. but I don't think so.
newfiend~

[StumpyBloke]

Windows 8 is looking more like a POS the more I hear about it. I don't get where MS are coming from with some of their decisions.

So with the removal of Aero (which I love and use) are we losing Aero Peek, Flip 3D etc? Do we know why they are removing it?

[STC]

Do we know why they are removing it?

More room for other crap?

[newfiend]

Do we know why they are removing it?

More room for other crap?

What Other Crap? I don't think they have adding anything to it... just removed..lol

[barnabas1969]

I get your point about removing stuff. I'll add that when something works... leave it the hell alone! MS Office is a prime example. A lot of people (including me) have been using Office for a long, long time. I've been using it for nearly 20 years now. Why the hell did they feel the need to change the whole damn thing in the 2010 version? I knew exactly how to do everything I needed to do in Office before they changed it in 2010. Now, I have to look up a lot of things in "help"... which basically just does a web search!

[cjmccarthy72]

Windows 8 is looking more like a POS the more I hear about it. I don't get where MS are coming from with some of their decisions.

So with the removal of Aero (which I love and use) are we losing Aero Peek, Flip 3D etc? Do we know why they are removing it?

...so as to make the "legacy" desktop as unappealing as possible so that we spend longer on the metro interface?

[mark1234]

The general PC user does Web, Email and Social Networking.. and for that I am sure Windows 8 will be great. But for us power users..It's gonna be a skip I think and wait for Windows 9 to see what it brings.

For the mass of people you mention an iPad does all those features just fine, and with a lot less "hassle" than people expect from a Windows machine. That is the market that MS are gunning for with Win8, not us. Personally I think they should have taken their phone OS to the tablet, as both Apple and Google have done. WP7 is a great OS and would be fantastic on a tablet. As it is, because I'm so down on Win8, I'm actually concerned that they are going to screw up WP8 as well. If Apple get their act together and finally revise the dull, static, boring home screen in iOS6 then that could draw me away if WP8 is as bad as I fear.

Windows 8 is looking more like a POS the more I hear about it. I don't get where MS are coming from with some of their decisions.

So with the removal of Aero (which I love and use) are we losing Aero Peek, Flip 3D etc? Do we know why they are removing it?

They do write unreadably enormous blog posts to justify everything. In the latest one, even going back to Windows 1 as part of justifying removing Aero from Windows 8. Reading between the lines, as one has to with these posts, I think battery power is a big reason why they've removed Aero. In that same post they talk a lot about maximising battery life, and Aero does make the GPU burn cycles that a dull, flat, Windows 2000 experience doesn't. Losing Aero won't make me think any worse of Win8, but it is something I like. Win7 without Aero looks pretty horrible.

[bobbob]

Windows 8 is looking more like a POS the more I hear about it. I don't get where MS are coming from with some of their decisions.

So with the removal of Aero (which I love and use) are we losing Aero Peek, Flip 3D etc? Do we know why they are removing it?

you're not the target market. MS has zero interest in your and your requirements, opinions, whatever. Mass market appeal is what will make MS money. the HTPC market is about as far from mass as it is possible to be

[cjmccarthy72]

Windows 8 is looking more like a POS the more I hear about it. I don't get where MS are coming from with some of their decisions.

So with the removal of Aero (which I love and use) are we losing Aero Peek, Flip 3D etc? Do we know why they are removing it?

you're not the target market. MS has zero interest in your and your requirements, opinions, whatever. Mass market appeal is what will make MS money. the HTPC market is about as far from mass as it is possible to be

But this is the desktop market this post is talking about, not the HTPC market. Despite Charles Arthur in the Guardian newspaper et al talking endlessly about the post-PC world, it can be argued that the the majority of "work" for the immediate future will still be done on something which resembles a desktop/laptop with a keyboard/mouse combo. So MS changes to the desktop, switching off the bells and whistles of Aero- peek etc, will impact more people than WMC- whether the removal is good/bad/indifferent is of course up to each of us. This new "legacy" desktop of Win8 may of course be more productive, and be more productive in fact than a MAC, but from a marketing position, it will look like a step back in time when the two are viewed side by side- unless the public find Apple OSX "cheesy"- (sounding like a ploughmans lunch now!)

[rantanamo]

The more I read about 8, the more I'm convinced people just are NOT giving it a try. If they were, I certainly wouldn't be reading some of these confusing reviews. Admittedly, I've not tried 8 media center yet, because frankly, I didn't do it with 7 or Vista until the final products were out. But on my desktop, I always try out the betas/previews. I was shocked at the negativity towards Vista, which really wasn't that different from 7 or even XP for that matter. XP was a ton of trouble for the general public and it took years for many to get a great, stable, infection less OS. Vista ran as well day 1, but was rejected because it looked and functioned a little different. Then when 7 came out it functioned very similarly to Vista with a few added features, yet it was praised to high heaven. Here we go again with 8. It has a few things that are a little different, yet people go in a panic. When 9 is similar, just watch, it will be praised. Its already being praised. What I'm saying is, this is 95% psychological.

As one who has been using the developer preview since it came out, I'm again shocked at the Metro stuff. Metro is all that you read when someone talks about 8. I have to question if they really are using 8 at all. Outside of no traditional Start button and more squared off, sleek look, the function of 8 is almost exact to 7. If you don't have a touch screen and are using metro even more than 5% of the time, you are doing it WRONG. The only time to even enter the metro interface is if a.) you just really love it, b.) it is now the start menu(it functions the same as the start menu if you read the instructions) c.) There's some app that you just love d.) to get to the power menu, which you can just gesture the mouse to the upper right to get to the settings menu. Otherwise, for pure desktop computing purposes, I don't get the alarm, nor the learning curve stuff. It took about 2 minutes to realize the start menu was access. I even built a computer for my 60 year old dad and told him he could for once be ahead of the curve and try out 8. He was like ok. When the first screen came up, he played around with metro interface a little and said, that's different, but I like the look. So I explained the tablet stuff to him and how to get to the regular desktop. Have not had a complaint since. He even said its just like 7 but the start menu is easier to read.