best HTPC mobo/cpu combo for recording multiple WMC streams?

[gman3042]

Hey all, I've been looking into a mobo/cpu combo (preferably one that is SFF.. i want to test out the combos rather than seperately doing the cpu and processor) that will allow me to record multiple 720p shows in wmc7(i have a hdhomerun prime(3-tuner)... i have an atom (foxconn nt330i) and it really bottles up when i try to record multiple ones (even though my network is now wired).. do you guys have any recommendations? (cheaper is better.. if possible).. lower power consumption is a must.

[adam1991]

well, recording shouldn't be the issue; the bandwidth necessary to do what you're doing simply isn't that much. Three channels being pumped through a network connection and simply streamed to disc (there's no encoding) should be easy.

How do you know your problem is recording rather than playback?

[gman3042]

so an atom machine (foxconn nt330i) should be able to record 3 different channels at once with no slowdown? (just talking about the hw)... it should be my internet connection?

[adam1991]

well, your internet connection isn't part of this.

However, your home network is, right? Because the tuner is plugged into your home network, as is your htpc.

Again, what symptoms are you seeing that make you think the actual recording process is failing--as opposed to, say, your actual viewing of the shows?

[gman3042]

the recording process is fine. it all ends up looking perfectly at the end. its just WHILE its recording, the machine is unusable. makes it really hard to record a channel while watching live tv. wouldn't that mean that the machine is bottling up? or is this a home network related issue?

[adam1991]

So, if you're *not* recording anything then you can watch live TV with no problem?

I'm trying to think here....streaming and writing to disc while simultaneously decoding/displaying one of the streams...hmmmmm.....

Of course, the live TV is actually being written to disc as well--that's your buffer.

Is your recorded TV folder on your boot disc?

[gman3042]

So, if you're *not* recording anything then you can watch live TV with no problem?

I'm trying to think here....streaming and writing to disc while simultaneously decoding/displaying one of the streams...hmmmmm.....

Of course, the live TV is actually being written to disc as well--that's your buffer.

Is your recorded TV folder on your boot disc?

that is correct. no issues with watching live tv when not recording. its perfect

my recorded tv folder is not on my boot disk. could that be the issue?

[adam1991]

hmmmmm, not sure.

On the one hand, I seem to remember someone here saying that the live TV buffer is on the same disc as the recorded TV folder. On the other hand, I remember seeing this thread:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/For ... 4e0b3f1dd5

that doesn't dispute the idea that it *may* be on your boot disc regardless, even though it's supposed to follow the "Recorded TV" location.

What I'm getting at here is that I wonder if your system is trying to put recorded TV on D: but is also trying to buffer live TV on C:. That's about the only way I can imagine your system being stressed to where it can't do anything else.

Recording TV is just streaming and writing the data to disc. Live TV adds decoding the stream through the GPU and out to the TV.

I can imagine your system being too weak to handle the throughput to two discs simultaneously, maybe.

The thread I referenced above talks about cycling your MC prefs to change Recorded TV back to your C: drive, reboot, and then change it back to your D: drive to try to trigger the live TV buffer to go where it's supposed to go.

I dunno.

You say you can't watch live TV while it's recording; can you do anything else? Browse the web? Solitaire? Anything?

[barnabas1969]

The first place to start when you have performance issues is the Windows Performance Monitor. Are you familiar with how to use it?

[WarrenH]

Sorry to disagree, anyone who's run an Atom knows its the processor. Whilst technically all the above us correct, in practice it's just a rubbish chip not designed for much beyond a netbook. To this end I talk from experience.
Returning to the original question, most Intel i3 or i5 CPU's work well. I don't have experience with AMD though there seems to be good user acceptance out there. Boards are a matter of preference, though mine is Intel as they're about the only manufacturer that continue updating their firmware. Personally I'd recommend you always go for the most powerful CPU you can afford as you can never overpower but easily underpower a system.

[barnabas1969]

Warren may be correct about the Atom. I've never owned one. However, I wouldn't advise getting the most powerful CPU you can afford... especially if you're looking to build a SFF HTPC. You need to think about power (heat) dissipation and fan noise. So, as Warren stated, an i3 or i5 is a very good CPU for an HTPC... but make sure you look at the design power of the CPU (35W, 65W, 95W, etc) and take that into consideration before buying hardware.

Another consideration is how many extenders you plan to use simultaneously. Microsoft recommends 1 CPU core per extender. So, if you plan to run 4 extenders simultaneously, you'll need a quad core CPU. If you plan to use 2 or fewer extenders, a dual core is fine. And... while I'm on the subject of extenders, MS recommends 1GB of RAM per extender, in addition to the minimum 2GB for Windows. So, if you plan to use 4 extenders, you'll need a minimum of 6GB of RAM... and this will require you to use the 64 bit version of Windows to take advantage of all that RAM.

My recommendation is to start with an i3 or i5 processor with the number of cores you require. Go for the one with the lowest design power (TDP) that will get the job done. Then, once you've settled on a CPU... choose a motherboard with the correct socket for the CPU and make sure the mobo will fit in your case. Also make sure that the motherboard has all the connections you need (number of USB ports internal/external, number of SATA connectors, HDMI, optical audio output, etc.).

Then, once you've settled on the motherboard, you'll want to choose RAM that is compatible with the mobo.

I've heard that the assassin guide is good for a beginner to use as a guide for what to buy. Here's a link to his guide:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1302559

Personally, I prefer to stick with an Intel CPU, an Intel chipset, and nVidia graphics. However, many have had great success with the embedded graphics in the i3 and i5 CPU's.

[blueiedgod]

I have used Atom N330 dual core in Ion 1 board with two ATI DCTs, and it recorded and played just fine. However, when I try adding a clear QAM tuner, there was a significant sluggishness of the system.

It may actually be the limitation of thehard drive controller. It can't sustain the write speeds. It is just a guess.

Your most cost effective way to fix this is by getting an AMD board with onboard Radeon 4250 ($20 AR), and an Athlon II X2 chip ($30-$50)

[bay area]

I have a 330 dual in the Revo 3610. Connected to it are a HDHomerun Prime 3 tuner, a HDhomerun 2 tuner qam, and 2 ATI DCTs. I only see slowdown when I have 4 or more recording when trying to watch live TV. I am pretty pleased with it. I will retire the QAM HdHomerun soon, after I am convinced that the new Prime will be fine. Prior to hooking up the Prime, the HDhomerun and dual ATIs worked flawlessly for years.

The only gripe I have is the fact that it has a little issue with extenders. That cannot be done while recording multiple streams/watching on the main computer.

[adam1991]

The only gripe I have is the fact that it has a little issue with extenders. That cannot be done while recording multiple streams/watching on the main computer.

I guess MS is right when they say that you should have a core for each extender.

[barnabas1969]

The only gripe I have is the fact that it has a little issue with extenders. That cannot be done while recording multiple streams/watching on the main computer.

I guess MS is right when they say that you should have a core for each extender.

Yes, I believe that is the single biggest problem when people are complaining that their extenders are sluggish. I also agree with Microsoft's RAM recommendation. I have definitely seen 6GB of RAM in use on my machine when all four extenders are running simultaneously with the main PC playing on the living room TV.

[blueiedgod]

I have a 330 dual in the Revo 3610. Connected to it are a HDHomerun Prime 3 tuner, a HDhomerun 2 tuner qam, and 2 ATI DCTs. I only see slowdown when I have 4 or more recording when trying to watch live TV. I am pretty pleased with it. I will retire the QAM HdHomerun soon, after I am convinced that the new Prime will be fine. Prior to hooking up the Prime, the HDhomerun and dual ATIs worked flawlessly for years.

The only gripe I have is the fact that it has a little issue with extenders. That cannot be done while recording multiple streams/watching on the main computer.

Atom 330 can't support more than 1 viewing location. So, if you are viewing on the TV connected to it, you can't view on an extender. I could not get it to record more than 2 channels at one without stutter.

I ended up switching the whole set up to AMD Athlon II X4, which allowed me to view on 4 extenders and the main TV at once, and wihtout any stutter. CPU use goes up to 80% when all 5 TV's are on.

The HTPC by it self does not use mu CPU power, but when you start using extenders, CPU use goes up right away.

[bay area]

That is not true, in my experience. I am able to watch on the main TV and the extender at the same time, while recording. If there are several recordings while both are viewing, then there are slowdowns, though not unwatchable. For some reason, the extender is better than the main screen...not sure why.

[barnabas1969]

That is not true, in my experience. I am able to watch on the main TV and the extender at the same time, while recording. If there are several recordings while both are viewing, then there are slowdowns, though not unwatchable. For some reason, the extender is better than the main screen...not sure why.

That's because the extender is doing the video decoding locally. It has its own processor, so it offloads some of the work from your Atom.

EDIT:
In any case, your system is insufficient. Get a dual/quad/six core processor, depending on your needs for number of extenders. Install 4-12 GB of RAM, again, depending on extender usage. Use the built-in Intel graphics HD2000/HD3000 on a 2nd generation core i3/i5/i7 processor, or use an nVidia GT430 GPU in addition to the CPU, if you don't buy a 2nd generation i3/i5/i7. Make sure you take into consideration the TDP (Thermal Design Power) of the CPU and the size/ventilation of the case you plan to buy. If you require more than 4GB of RAM, you need a 64-bit version of Windows.

So, number of extenders you plan to run simultaneously equals number of CPU cores required.
Amount of RAM equals 2GB (minimum!) plus 1GB per extender that will run simultaneously.

These parameters may vary if you will be using the machine for anything other than Windows Media Center, including commercial skipping software.

EDIT2: I recommend using an Intel chipset on your motherboard.

[bay area]

I know that my system is "insufficient", at least for your needs.
I was just trying to give my input into the Atom problems, and let them know that you can do a lot with these little things.

[gman3042]

I'm not going to upgrade yet.

Could my issue be with a 5400RPM drive? Would a 7200 drive help with this issue?

btw: thanks for all th erecommendations. you've all been really helpful.