Win7 with WMC ReInstall -- Can we preserve protected content?

[McGary]

As the subject says, we need to do a complete rebuild of Windows 7 on a friend's system, which has several issues that I haven't been able to resolve -- SFC doesn't find any corrupted files; removing/reinstalling major system components in Control Panel hasn't helped, etc.

So … he bought a new SSD and we plan to do a reload of '7. I know Microsoft says you have to playback protected content "on the same computer it was recorded on" -- but I fear that may actually mean "the same install of Windows 7 on the same computer you recorded it on." Surely there's a way to save the licenses before doing the reinstall and then add them back to the new install.

I've read that you simply need to save the "Program Data\Microsoft\PlayReady" folder and then restore it, but I've also seen others say there are some cache files that must also be saved.

Anyone know for SURE how to save/restore this info so current recorded content will play on a new install??

[toshfive]

Good question. I've done some personal rebuilds with past recorded content without issue. I don't think my .wtv folder had any protected content though. Just regular recordings.

Have you tried playing friends content on your system? If they play, you should good.

Full disclosure. I don't watch recordings from WMC box. Streaming them using RaspberryPi's running Kodi/ServerWMC PVR

[Space]

Sorry to say that if you reinstall Windows, your previously recorded copy protected videos will not play.

If you have an image backup of the system disk from before you had problems, you can restore that image and then copy over the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\PlayReady\mspr.hds file from the failing image and you should be able to play back all the copy protected recordings.

But a new install changes the signature of the machine so that it looks like a different machine, and even copying over the mprs.hds file will not make it work.

[toshfive]

Sorry to say that if you reinstall Windows, your previously recorded copy protected videos will not play.

If you have an image backup of the system disk from before you had problems, you can restore that image and then copy over the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\PlayReady\mspr.hds file from the failing image and you should be able to play back all the copy protected recordings.

But a new install changes the signature of the machine so that it looks like a different machine, and even copying over the mprs.hds file will not make it work.

Another reason I use something other then Windows for playback. My past protected recordings (2013?) stored on external drive play fine via Kodi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VCcBcH8CrE

[Space]

...
Another reason I use something other then Windows for playback. My past protected recordings (2013?) stored on external drive play fine via Kodi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VCcBcH8CrE

Highly unlikely. Copy protected recordings are encrypted. You would not be able to play them on anything other than the machine that recorded them. How do you know they are copy protected?

[toshfive]

Highly unlikely ? Yet proof....

I don't. Did they copy protect HBO in 2013? Yes!..... Did people explore exploits within said encryption ? Yes!....Not an admission on my part.

Today with so many streaming options, encrypted/unencrypted.... Does it really matter today? few clever key strokes anyone can have/view past or current movies. Do I feel bad for Hollywood that just spews out remakes ? No!

Has this ideology contribute to WMC demise ? Pretty sure it has....

Original Poster.... What are you afraid of loosing?

Sorry, I know it came across more as a rant.... He's right about protected content. Unless you're willing to delve deep into some uber geekery just reinstall windows.

[Space]

Not all cable systems copy protected HBO, not sure who "they" is. I know there are some ways of re-recording the video, but I don't consider that practical. I don't doubt there may be ways of circumventing the protection, but that's not something we can talk about.

[bencjedi]

Sorry to say that if you reinstall Windows, your previously recorded copy protected videos will not play.

If you have an image backup of the system disk from before you had problems, you can restore that image and then copy over the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\PlayReady\mspr.hds file from the failing image and you should be able to play back all the copy protected recordings.

But a new install changes the signature of the machine so that it looks like a different machine, and even copying over the mprs.hds file will not make it work.

Wish I asked this same question and had your response last July when I re-imaged my Win7 WMC PC using a virgin image from when I created the machine (with the same hardware). 'Lost' access to watch all my old recordings. I had imaged the hardware prior to the initial WMC setup. Sounds like if I had backed up the mspr.hds file before the restore from that image I could have just put it back and had access to play back all my Cablecard-recorded shows that are encrypted. I did take an image of the screwed up Win7 install prior to restore of the virgin image so I could actually get the mspr.hds file from that era, however now that I have been recording new stuff on the new setup of WMC there's a new mspr.hds file.. I can't use both to watch old and new recordings without swapping them in and out can I?

[Space]

I'm not aware of a way to do that without swapping the files, there would have to be a way to merge the two files, and I'm not aware of any way of doing that (but I've never looked for a way, so it may be possible).

But if you still have the old recordings, you CAN watch them again by swapping to the older license file. You just have to be sure that you swap back again before any new recording starts or you want to watch one of the newer copy protected recordings. It would be a pain, but it is possible.

[McGary]

A few thoughts …

=> It's VERY frustrating that the rule that "you can only play back recorded content on the PC it was recorded on" is RUBBISH. It's not "the PC it was recorded on" … it's apparently the INSTALL on that PC. And even if it's the same install, you can't depend on an IMAGE of that install to bail you out of problems (thus eliminating the possible need for a new clean install) => because if you restore an old image ALL recordings made since the image was created apparently won't play back !!!

As for having a good image -- if this was for me that would not be an issue. I'm an ultimate "back up freak" -- I have all of my Media Center content backed up on a dual parity fault tolerant server … so to lose a recording I would have to have FOUR hard drive failures at the same time !! [The drive the content is stored on in the HTPC, plus 3 drives in the server (which can lose 2 drives without losing any data)] My PC's are even more resilient -- all of our data is backed up every night at 3:45 to (a) a spare drive on the PC; (b) a spare drive on another PC; and (c) the fault tolerant server. So to lose data on my or my wife's PC we would have to have 2 drives fail on the PC in question, PLUS 1 specific drive fail on the other PC involved in the backup (my wife's for my PC, and vice-versa for hers); plus 3 drives fail on the server. In other words, SIX drives would have to fail !!

I also maintain reasonably current images of all of our PC's on the fault tolerant server.

=> Having said that, the PC that provoked this question is for a disabled friend who lives 1800 miles away and is NOT very computer literate. When we met them a couple decades ago, they lived close to us and were involved in a lot of social activities with us. I maintained their PC's for them, but then they moved about 3 years ago to be closer to their children -- and he's having several issues with his HTPC that I've been trying to help him with. The last image he has was one I made just before they moved .. e.g. about 3 years ago -- and he added a couple HDHR tuners and cable cards AFTER they moved and started using WMC. So yes, there's an image, but it would almost certainly NOT help if we restored it (I could talk him through that process) --- as I suspect the recorded content would not play back.

I DO plan to test that -- by first saving the contents of the Program Data\Microsoft\PlayReady folder; then restoring the image; then configuring WMC; and then restoring the PlayReady folder contents. Note, by the way, that in addition to the mspr.hds file mentioned above, there is a cache folder in the same location that's a hidden, protected system file, so you have to change your view settings to see both of those types of files to copy the entire contents. We're going to image the current setup; then do the testing; and if it doesn't work we'll just restore the image and use the system as it is now. (It's usable, just not "right" -- and I'd like to resolve that)

=> As for WHY anyone cares about the content -- they've recorded a lot of series and movies they like (~ 2000 or so) and really don't want to lose access to them. One "solution" would be to just set up a 2nd WMC system to use for recording going forward with a clean load -- and keep the old (corrupted) system just to play back their older content. Most of what they watch is via Xbox extenders anyway, and the extender can be set to connect to multiple WMC systems … so when they turned it on they could select the "old content" or the "current WMC" system. Clearly I'd prefer to simply get it all working on one system -- but Microsoft doesn't make that easy with the way they store the copy protection keys.

I suspect this issue is a good bit of the reason Microsoft didn't carry WMC forward to Windows 10 -- think how ticked off WMC users would have been if they bought a new Windows 10 machine (or upgraded their current one to W10) and suddenly they lost access to all of their previously recorded material !!

This wasn't nearly as much of an issue before the days of SDV transmission -- which necessitated tuning adapters and cable cards … thus MUCH more protected content that you used to have with analog tuners. My HTPC had 4 Hauppauge PVR-150 tuners in it for nearly a decade, and everything we recorded via those tuners would play back on virtually anything. But when the cable company went all digital -- and started using switched digital video transmission, I had to get cable cards and changed to a few Silicon Dust HDHR tuners (I originally bought 3, but one failed a year or so ago and I never replaced it, so we have 2 now -- 6 channels at once seems to be sufficient

Enough ranting -- I'm just frustrated that there's not a well-defined way to reload W7/WMC and preserve your current content. There SHOULD be a way to export the necessary key info and then import it again on a new install on the SAME PC. [Even better, on a newer PC -- but I'd be okay if the stated rule of "playback on the PC is was recorded on" was at least true.

Hopefully a bit of experimentation with the contents of the ProgramData\Microsoft\PlayReady folder will prove that it's not as bad as it sounds -- but from what I've read on this and other forums I'm not very optimistic. I'll post my results in a week or so of the experiments we do with both an older image and a clean install.

[Space]

Some people make regular image backups of the boot/system partitions on a regular basis. If you do this, you can have a complete hard drive failure and be back in business on a new drive by just loading that image on the new drive.

I don't do this, because I'm lazy and I believe it's a bit overkill.

What I do is make an image backup once I have my system set up the way I want it, and then again any time I make a change to the system drive, like a change in the configuration or add a new tool, etc. (keeping the last 3 or so image backups).

Note that while my system has channels that are DRM (copy once) protected, most of the stuff I record is not, so there is little risk of losing anything if the system drive completely fails.

When I do record DRM protected content (such as from HBO or Cinemax when they have a free preview weekend) I will make an image backup just because it is a rare occurrence and, why not? I'll have the mprs.hds plus the any Series I may have added or deleted (this is relatively easy for me to recreate if it is lost so I don't make an image backup if I only add or delete a Series).

But technically, all you need to do to make sure you will be able to play back your DRM protected recordings after a complete HD failure is to have an image backup of your system (doesn't matter how old it is) and a copy of the most recent mspr.hds file.

So just back up the mspr.hds every day, or several times per day if you record a lot of DRM content and you should be good. One problem with this is that the mspr.hds file may be open when you try to copy it and can fail, so that is something that needs to be dealt with, but it is not that big a problem.

I have personally (just last weekend) restored a year-old image of my WMC system and then took the most recent mspr.hds file from the disk it replaced and put it on there. I was able to play back the oldest DRM protected video I have as well as the most recent DRM video (so I assume it will be able to play back them all). There was no need to restore anything else in the Playready folder (and others have also reported this).

[McGary]

Some people make regular image backups of the boot/system partitions on a regular basis. If you do this, you can have a complete hard drive failure and be back in business on a new drive by just loading that image on the new drive.

I don't do this, because I'm lazy and I believe it's a bit overkill.

What I do is make an image backup once I have my system set up the way I want it, and then again any time I make a change to the system drive, like a change in the configuration or add a new tool, etc. (keeping the last 3 or so image backups).

Ditto. I image all of our systems about every 2-3 months, and keep 3 images from each on my server. For example, the HTPC images are called "W7 HTPC utd - A", "W7 HTPC utd - B", and "W7 HTPC utd - C" (The "utd" means "up to date" -- I always make sure there are no pending Windows updates before imaging.

Note that while my system has channels that are DRM (copy once) protected, most of the stuff I record is not, so there is little risk of losing anything if the system drive completely fails.

When I do record DRM protected content (such as from HBO or Cinemax when they have a free preview weekend) I will make an image backup just because it is a rare occurrence and, why not? I'll have the mprs.hds plus the any Series I may have added or deleted (this is relatively easy for me to recreate if it is lost so I don't make an image backup if I only add or delete a Series).

Most of the stuff we record SHOULD NOT be copy protected -- but it is, because Spectrum (formerly Time Warner) sets the "Copy Once" flag for virtually everything. Your approach, since you rarely record protected content, is reasonable -- just update your Image whenever you've recorded some content you don't want to lose.

But technically, all you need to do to make sure you will be able to play back your DRM protected recordings after a complete HD failure is to have an image backup of your system (doesn't matter how old it is) and a copy of the most recent mspr.hds file.

I HOPE this is correct -- you don't need the hidden, protected system cache folder from the same direction? The cache folder has a lot of content, so I assumed it was also needed. I've never actually tried a restore, so I don't know for certain. I do have an automated backup task that backups up the entire PlayReady folder every night, so if I did need to restore an image I'd certainly be able to try this.

I have personally (just last weekend) restored a year-old image of my WMC system and then took the most recent mspr.hds file from the disk it replaced and put it on there. I was able to play back the oldest DRM protected video I have as well as the most recent DRM video (so I assume it will be able to play back them all). There was no need to restore anything else in the Playready folder (and others have also reported this).

This is VERY good news. I plan to try exactly this with my friend's system later this week. He's been tied up with medical appointments the last couple of days, but we can give this a try Thursday or Friday. I plan to save the full PlayReady folder -- but just for grins I'll only restore the mspr.hds file and see if that does the trick. [If not, I'll try adding the cache folder]

What would be even better news is if you could do a clean install (on the same PC) and restore the mspr.hds folder and everything would work -- but I'm not sure we'll actually try that. If he was local, I definitely would … but it's a tedious process to talk him through a lot of this stuff (what I can do remotely, I do via Teamviewer -- but much of what needs done can't be done remotely … e.g. restoring an image and/or replacing a drive).

In any event, I'm reassured by your last statement -- and am hopeful this will do the trick on his system.

[Space]

Note that an image backup of the system drive includes multiple partitions. On my Win7 system it includes two smaller partitions and then the main Windows (C: drive) partition. You need to have all those to do a restore that maintains the system signature for PlayReady, as there is some data in those partitions that is used to give the PC it's unique signature.

[bencjedi]

Our problems would be solved if some smart developer wrote a utility that uses any specified mspr.hds file to decrypt stored recordings and stream them into a DRM-free new .dvr-ms or .wtv file. Why doesn't anyone do that?

[cwinfield]

an upgrade install will preserve your drm if that is a more desirable solution than a new install.