Looking to replace Tivo - Thinking about Ceton

[kd6icz]

Basically, he's saying that he does not want to use the HTPC to watch TV, only to stream to extenders. Which is why he wants two extenders, but only one Tivo mini. But again, if you only need two TVs to watch your content, there are ways to build an HTPC so that it can sit under your TV too. This is my HTPC- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811163233 - and it fits very well into my AV equipment. Now, if you have an HTPC up on a wall, then maybe you want a smaller unit. Or, you could jsut string HDMI over to the TV from a hidden HTPC. Whatever the case may be, there are ways to save money if you're willing to use the HTPC as a content provider, and not just distributor.

I started to build a PC that was in a component sized case to put under the TV. But since I use Slingbox I needed a component video output and that isn't easy to do from a PC graphics card. This is the same reason I didn't buy the Echo. So the 360 with a component cable was my only option.

Plus it's easier for others that watch TV in my house to use. The Xbox turns on and goes directly to MC.

[barnabas1969]

But since I use Slingbox I needed a component video output

If your graphics card has a VGA output (many have one, and many others can output VGA with a simple inexpensive adapter), you can use this device to get component output for a mere 40 bucks:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?ab3=b& ... &p_id=8668

Oh... or... put the slingbox in the room where the extender is located... then there's no reason to have component output on the PC.

[kingwr]

He suddenly justifies his faulty cost analysis on some invented, pulled-out-of-thin-air, never before revealed "requirement" that he not plug his HTPC into his TV, but that he uses XBox alone to plug into his TV?

Where did THIS requirement come from? Oh, that's right--nowhere. It popped up suddenly when he realized that he screwed up his own math (because math is hard) and he would rather just barrel on through it.

I had a system in place for 7 years where a rackmount WMC PC in the wiring closet acted only as a DVR and supported extenders (and additional PCs). What's so unusual about that?

[makryger]

He suddenly justifies his faulty cost analysis on some invented, pulled-out-of-thin-air, never before revealed "requirement" that he not plug his HTPC into his TV, but that he uses XBox alone to plug into his TV?

Where did THIS requirement come from? Oh, that's right--nowhere. It popped up suddenly when he realized that he screwed up his own math (because math is hard) and he would rather just barrel on through it.

I had a system in place for 7 years where a rackmount WMC PC in the wiring closet acted only as a DVR and supported extenders (and additional PCs). What's so unusual about that?

No problem, just that the requirements that keep making his htpc more expensive are not being equally applied to the tivo. Apples and oranges.

[slowbiscuit]

I can understand all the reasons why someone would choose a WMC setup over a Tivo or other CE-oriented DVR. But c'mon guys -- we can't seriously be discussing whether a WMC is more reliable than a Tivo, or a DirecTV setup, or a cable STB, right? We all know that's just not the case. Even if your WMC runs for months without issues, there's still the rebooting, rerunning tuner setup, missing tuners, guide update failures, lost extender connections, extenders that won't boot, network snafus, and other problems inherent in the typical WMC setup that just don't exist with most CE-level devices.

I've seen none of that with the HDHR Prime ever since the DLNA firmware releases over a year ago. My WMC HTPC just works, with multiple extenders. My Tivo Premiere Elite and Mini are equally reliable.

[blueiedgod]

I had nothing. So two Xbox's, Ceton PCIe 6, Intel i3, 8GB RAM, Intel motherboard, 3TB HDD, 32GB SSD, case, power supply, and DVD drive. All that added up together is $1400. A new 3TB Tivo with lifetime subscription is $1069 from Weaknees. A Tivo mini is $249 with lifetime subscription. So in my case it would have been cheaper.

What's that you say? Your HTPC cost of $1400 included TWO XBOXES?

And then you come in and claim that your Tivo cost analysis includes only ONE SINGLE TIVO MINI, and it's $82 cheaper than your HTPC, therefore...what?

Have you ever heard the term "apples to apples"? As in, "your HTPC vs Tivo cost comparison that you're using to "justify" the $82 cheaper Tivo system is not apples to apples."?

Good catch!

[blueiedgod]

Basically, he's saying that he does not want to use the HTPC to watch TV, only to stream to extenders. Which is why he wants two extenders, but only one Tivo mini. But again, if you only need two TVs to watch your content, there are ways to build an HTPC so that it can sit under your TV too. This is my HTPC- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811163233 - and it fits very well into my AV equipment. Now, if you have an HTPC up on a wall, then maybe you want a smaller unit. Or, you could jsut string HDMI over to the TV from a hidden HTPC. Whatever the case may be, there are ways to save money if you're willing to use the HTPC as a content provider, and not just distributor.

There is no reason to "fear" HTPC in the vicinity of TV. Many HTPC cases fit right into the typical A/V equipment scheme.

In fact, I am just building an HTPC into a case that I scavenged from a broken DVD player. It will look right at home next to any TV.

[blueiedgod]

I had nothing. So two Xbox's, Ceton PCIe 6, Intel i3, 8GB RAM, Intel motherboard, 3TB HDD, 32GB SSD, case, power supply, and DVD drive. All that added up together is $1400. A new 3TB Tivo with lifetime subscription is $1069 from Weaknees. A Tivo mini is $249 with lifetime subscription. So in my case it would have been cheaper.

What's that you say? Your HTPC cost of $1400 included TWO XBOXES?

And then you come in and claim that your Tivo cost analysis includes only ONE SINGLE TIVO MINI, and it's $82 cheaper than your HTPC, therefore...what?

Have you ever heard the term "apples to apples"? As in, "your HTPC vs Tivo cost comparison that you're using to "justify" the $82 cheaper Tivo system is not apples to apples."?

All I can say is WOW! I'm sorry man... If I could draw you a picture in crayon I would. Maybe someone else can explain.

Please do draw it with a crayon. TiVO Roamio is just as large as many HTPC cases.

[kd6icz]

Please do draw it with a crayon. TiVO Roamio is just as large as many HTPC cases.

I never said it had anything to do with looks. For me it was the connections (component video) and the human interface. I didn't want others in the house to have access to the PC itself. Going through an extender protects the computer from humans that don't know what they're doing.

On a Tivo none of that applies and I can use the main unit for one TV and the Mini for the other. That's why I only need one Mini if I were to go back to the Tivo platform.

[miracleed]

I have been really happy with my Infinitv 4 internal tuner card and WMC. There have been a few glitches as I have gotten the whole system up to speed and in the process I have learned a ton about the Windows OS and hardware configurations. From what I have seen the Tivo boxes are really great. My friend swears by his. If I were only interested in a reliable and self contained product I would be very tempted by their hardware.

Ultimately I was looking to reduce my cable bill and the idea of renting a dvr ad infinitum made me grumpy. What I have set up now runs scheduled tasks to convert different media formats to a single format, allows me to emulate basic functionality of chromecast, stream amazon prime content, view photos, listen to music, the box turns off and on as the system requires it, I can use my Kinect to give voice and gesture commands... all through a single UI.

My only hands on experiences however have been with what was my comcast cable box and what is my WMC HTPC which utilizes a Ceton card. During my initial attempts to pair my cable card I had cases open with Ceton. I found their customer service, prompt and helpful. So now I get decent nerd points for my system, I have hands on control of just about every aspect of my home theatre, my cable bill is low and so is my electrical bill. All pluses in my book.


Good luck with whatever you decide.

[barnabas1969]

For me it was the connections (component video) and the human interface. I didn't want others in the house to have access to the PC itself. Going through an extender protects the computer from humans that don't know what they're doing.

I already linked to an inexpensive product to get the component output. As for the problem with people who might mess up your computer, that's easy to fix. Set a password on your administrative login, and create a user without admin rights (and without a password). Use the non-admin user for watching TV on the PC. That way, people can't do stupid things to the PC. It's how I setup all of my PC's for my kids to prevent them from messing things up.

[kd6icz]

I already linked to an inexpensive product to get the component output. As for the problem with people who might mess up your computer, that's easy to fix. Set a password on your administrative login, and create a user without admin rights (and without a password). Use the non-admin user for watching TV on the PC. That way, people can't do stupid things to the PC. It's how I setup all of my PC's for my kids to prevent them from messing things up.

I would have to get an external sound card with a optical output as well as the component cable. Also WMC remote kit. So it was just simpler to go with an xbox. Plus I get an xbox out of the deal just in case I ever wanted to play a game.

Also, at the time, Xbox was the only set top box that had access to Watch ESPN which carried many college football games I wanted to see that were not on the broadcast channels. Now Watch ESPN is on Roku and Apple TV so I will not be renewing my Xbox Gold membership in a few months when it expires.

[barnabas1969]

I would have to get an external sound card with a optical output as well as the component cable. Also WMC remote kit.

Component cables are like a dollar at MonoPrice. WMC remote - less than $20. Many motherboards have an internal S/PDIF header, and you can get a TOSLINK (optical) bracket on e-bay for about 5 bucks that will plug into the S/PDIF header and give you an optical output. If yours doesn't have an optical output nor an S/PDIF header then it sounds like a failure on your part to plan your PC build for what you really wanted to do.

EDIT: You can also buy one of these ($11.99 at Newegg) to get optical audio output. It only requires a USB port:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812186171

[makryger]

So to summarize this thread,
Lesson 1: everyone has different needs for their unique situations, and so the ultimate price you will need to pay for your equipment will vary widely.
Lesson 2: There's more than one way to skin a cat- some skinnings can be cheaper than others.

[blueiedgod]

Please do draw it with a crayon. TiVO Roamio is just as large as many HTPC cases.

I never said it had anything to do with looks. For me it was the connections (component video) and the human interface. I didn't want others in the house to have access to the PC itself. Going through an extender protects the computer from humans that don't know what they're doing.

On a Tivo none of that applies and I can use the main unit for one TV and the Mini for the other. That's why I only need one Mini if I were to go back to the Tivo platform.

You know you can lock HTPC in WMC only mode, so that other humans can't get into the "windows" out of WMC, right?

An PC will give you a lot more flexibility with connections, you knew that, right?

[adam1991]

He suddenly justifies his faulty cost analysis on some invented, pulled-out-of-thin-air, never before revealed "requirement" that he not plug his HTPC into his TV, but that he uses XBox alone to plug into his TV?

Where did THIS requirement come from? Oh, that's right--nowhere. It popped up suddenly when he realized that he screwed up his own math (because math is hard) and he would rather just barrel on through it.

I had a system in place for 7 years where a rackmount WMC PC in the wiring closet acted only as a DVR and supported extenders (and additional PCs). What's so unusual about that?

That in and of itself is not unusual. What's unusual is that in his cost justification he deliberately skewed the math, then came back and claimed that he used facts not in evidence and that's why his $82 "savings" is justified.

It's not, he deliberately threw out a wrong analysis because the correct analysis destroys his "but I'm saving $82!" claim, and he got caught by my asking him an innocent question. He got caught, and he tried to bluster through it with a transparent story.

[adam1991]

Please do draw it with a crayon. TiVO Roamio is just as large as many HTPC cases.

I never said it had anything to do with looks. For me it was the connections (component video) and the human interface. I didn't want others in the house to have access to the PC itself. Going through an extender protects the computer from humans that don't know what they're doing.

On a Tivo none of that applies and I can use the main unit for one TV and the Mini for the other. That's why I only need one Mini if I were to go back to the Tivo platform.

SURE you meant that in your first cost analysis. Never mind that you never, not once, ever bothered to say that. Sure. We believe you.

[choliscott]

I figure I would chime in. Costco & Sam's club (at least in my area) are both selling the Tivo 6 tuner 1 TB model for $350. Add $500 for lifetime (some people say you can get lifetime for $400) & a Tivo Mini ($250) = $1000 - 1100 or $1250-$1350 (for 2 Mini's). Also add another $100 for a 3 TB.

That being said, depending on the number of people who are going to be using the system at the same time, you can build a WMC setup for cheaper then this amount, especially if you live near a Micro Center, check out slick deals, & also purchasing some of the items off of Ebay. For example, I purchase a couple Linksys DMA2200 extenders for around $40 a piece.

Now that being said, I think the part I'm confused with is the OP asking about converting over to WMC & getting people's opinions. A few messages later, the OP said that Tivo was cheaper then WMC. A few messages after that says he's having issues with WMC. So at which point where the parts already purchased?

[slowbiscuit]

You can get Tivo lifetime service for $400 all day with promo code PLSR (if you buy the Tivo from a 3rd-party retailer), been out there for years.

But your point is what I've also said plenty of times - for 2 TVs or more the HTPC setup is going to be cheaper whole-house, hands down. I could easily build a 3TB 6-tuner box with an Xbox for way less than the $1100 that a 3TB Tivo w/Mini would cost. And then the math gets even better for the PC when you add more Xboxes.

But don't forget that lifetime Tivos have resale value, and the PC doesn't (much).

[barnabas1969]

To be honest, if the price at initial release of the Tivo Roamio was the same as what it's listed on weaknees.com, I might have gone with that instead of building a new PC. But, I will also say that I'm completely satisfied with my new PC. It does make a big difference now that I don't allow it to sleep. I didn't want to do that with my old PC because it was such a power hog, but this new system is so efficient, there's no reason to ever turn it off. Also, the Pulse-Eight CEC device is 100% reliable, and I never had that with the RCAware device.