Video problems (x2)

[jziggity]

Problem #1:
Ugh, I just want this to work like the Youtube product demo video. If only it were that easy. I spent hours today getting my 2 new Echos set up on 2 different entertainment systems. One setup uses an older Panasonic TH-42PX600U plasma TV. The primary issue affecting my setup is missing video on some channels of live TV. There are some very low end cable channels (3, 9, etc.) and some higher end ones too that refuse to show video, even though the audio is coming through just fine. I am using Time Warner cable, Milwaukee WI area. I have the HDMI out from the Echo connected directly to the TV, as the older sound system it use does not have HDMI inputs. The sound system DOES have an optical audio input, so the optical cable is run directly from the Echo to the surround system. Sometimes, but only sometimes, I can get the missing video to appear on channel 3 (the one I'm using to troubleshoot this issue) by doing a hard reset (pull the power plug and then plug it back in again). When the video is back, as soon as I change to another channel and then back to channel 3 again, the video is once again gone. ARRRGGHHH!!!

Since I have 2 Echos, I tried them both on both plasma TV's. The other plasma I have is a newer Panasonic. Both Echos had no problems with video on all channels on the newer TV, but both had issues with missing video on the older TV. Conclusion: it is probably my older TV that is having an issue with an outdated HDMI version....maybe....? But why, then, can I sometimes get the video to work on the older TV with a few resets?

Problem #2:
If that weren't enough, I also have noticed a video stutter/jitter on both Echo's on both the newer and older plasmas. It is especially noticeable when there are panning type shots on the show being watched. This issue is noticeable on both live and recorded TV. If I watch the exact same channel and program through Media Center on my HTPC, it is as smooth as silk. If I switch back to my cable company boxes, video is once again nice and smooth. My only conclusion here is that the problem is DEFINITELY the Echos, and most likely something to do with the oft-talked about 1080i/1080p thing.

I purchased a brand new, custom built HTPC (to the tune of $1400+) for the primary purpose of supporting a whole-house DVR setup with 2 Echos. So I certainly would LOVE for these things to work as they were advertised. Both Echos automatically updated to the latest firmware (12/02/12) when they were first turned on. The fact that the firmware updates seem to be recent (and hopefully ongoing) gives me hope that both of these issues can be resolved by Ceton. Failing that, I will have to return them and join the ranks of those decrying the much too-early release of a product that's just not ready for the mainstream consumer market. Ceton, please help!

[olds403]

My experience is that video studder is from the network not being capable of the video stream. My setup is asus gigabit router, Trendnet gigabit switches, and cat6 cables. In addition, you should run packet loss testing to see where have problems. My issue was my nic setiings in the htpc and win network throttling Fought it for a year with studder on my xbox extender and took the time this week to troubleshoot it as it was the network. All the time it was the network nic settings. Search for htpc nic setiings and the registry hack for the win7 network throttling. By the way i have a Panasonic 46" plasma Panasonic TC-P46G10 and the echo works fine. Though i sill need to install the plugins and Hope that helps

[olds403]

Post your set up.

[jziggity]

Thanks, I will definitely check into the Windows network throttling thing. As far as my network setup, I have the house wired with cat 6 cables all running into a DLink gigabit switch, which is fed off of an older Belkin wireless G router with 100mbit ethernet ports. Running the network test from the Echo pegs the green bars all the way to the highest end of the scale. For the computer itself, the CPU is an i-5 3570k at 3.4ghz, 16GB ram running at 1600mhz, and I'm using the onboard Realtek NIC from the Asus P8Z77M PRO motherboard. I could have sworn I read somewhere earlier in the Echo forum here something about updating the NIC with the drivers directly from the Realtek site? I thought someone else said that helped them with some issues, but now I can't find the post I was thinking of.

Reference the HDMI issue with the older Panasonic plasma, I did submit a support ticket on the Ceton site. They responded with a request for more information and also noted that they tested the Echo on an older Panasonic plasma (they didn't specify which model) and they had no problems (of course).

It sounds like I might be able to work through the video stuttering issue, but if I can't get the one plasma to work with an Echo, my whole system is still screwed. I'm guessing I may have to just go for a separate low-end, small form-factor HTPC to use for playback on that particular TV if I can't get this figured out. We'll see I guess.

I will try the throttling fix (and possibly the driver update) later this afternoon/evening and advise on results. Anyone have any other suggestions to try for the HDMI issue? Thanks!

[TeddyR]

Two things to try for the older plasma.

- Check if you need to update the firmware. Some of the early HDTVs had issues that were frequently fixed with firmware updates. (YMMV, as with any fw update, there are some risks...), If I recall correctly, the Panasonics have multiple firmware updates for the same unit (different portions of the hardware)...

- Install the ceton echo settings plugin, then on the echo that you will be using with the older plasma try to set it to 720p instead of auto (even though auto defaults to 720p, the "autodetection" process may be causing issues). Try with both 720p and 1080i settings instead of auto. Unfortunately you would need to set it up on the working tv then move it over to the other one...

as for the network issue: Yes, I can confirm that the realtek drivers from MS are not the best ones. The ones from the realtek website work better, but unfortunately what you are describing is not usually what the drivers would fix... But then, it should not hurt to update them.

also, if you have any other AV other than MS Security essentials, uninstall it completely (Especially AVG) and use MSSE.

[jziggity]

Ugh, this is such a disaster. I tried the network throttling, I tried updating my NIC's driver, I ran packet loss testing and everything passed. I just don't see what the problem is. As far as the video stutter/jitter, it is subtle but still really noticeable during panning movements of the camera. Now that I see it, I can't "unsee" it, and it will drive me crazy until it is fixed.

I have installed the settings plugin and tried all available resolution settings for the older plasma. The only one that will consistently display video on ALL channels is 480i. However at that resolution the aspect is all jacked up and more than 1/2 of my picture is cut off on the sides and bottom. The firmware is up to date on the older plasma. I will try eliminating the gigabit switch and go directly through the router to try to isolate another piece of hardware from the problem. Both Echos are just unusable in their current state.

[jziggity]

Ok, pulled the gigabit switch out of the mix, still no change. Perhaps someone can answer me this: am I expecting too much out of this device? When I watch live TV directly on my HTPC through Media Center, the motion is smooth as glass. Through the Echo, the motion jitter/stutter is glaringly obvious. When other people compare a direct HTPC viewing experience with that of the Echo, do they look the same? Aren't they supposed to?

[fiteclub]

I can confirm the jutter/stutter effect using the echo. I also have a Xbox extender at the same location in my house. So using the Xbox, the video playback is smooth as silk while using the echo, there is a definite stutter. Also, the video quality seems inferior compared to the Xbox. Both extenders set at my native LCD resolution of 1080p.

[olds403]

What i did to mine was hack the registry per the post below. Review the Steps under network throttling and Nic.
I have hd homerun primes as my cable card tuners. It should not matter though. Once i hacked my registry and changed my nic to 1gb I have not seen any issues. My echo is on my panny 46 in my playroom and my htpc is on my samsung 55 led. Issues with video are much more apparent on my Samsung. Since the reg hack and the change to my nic no issues.

My advice is to be patient as I had my system up for a year now and still have random issues either from TW cable or windows updates. Another thing is disable windows auto updates. I also found that amd video cards had pixelation issues and now use a nvida based card gt430.

All of this takes time to figure out the problems. I had a ceton infinitv usb before and had issues, but ceton made it right. Just saying they are a stand up company so dont get discouraged as there may be a problem not all of us see. All of this htpc is tricky sometimes and simple things like video card driver updates screwed me up badly not too long ago. Even had a cheapo hdmi cable where i had random
Hdcp handshake issues. Hope this helps....

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5877.

[kingwr]

My concern is that if the hardware is just underpowered, then no software fix is oing to solve the problem. It has to be more hardware umph than a DMA2100, right. I don't have stutter problems on my DMA2100s.

[cdcellular]

I have nothing but respect for Ceton. They have always been a stand up company. I just wish they would acknowledge these issues exist. Maybe a blog post or something confirming the issues with an assurance that it will be sorted out, even if its going to take months to do so. The minute they do that, I'm sure a lot of us will stop bitching lol. I'd rather have an echo that is a work in progress, then no echo at all.

[jziggity]

I have nothing but respect for Ceton. They have always been a stand up company. I just wish they would acknowledge these issues exist. Maybe a blog post or something confirming the issues with an assurance that it will be sorted out, even if its going to take months to do so. The minute they do that, I'm sure a lot of us will stop bitching lol. I'd rather have an echo that is a work in progress, then no echo at all.

YES, exactly!! I have seen many postings and reviews now about the laggy video and the possible causes. But for all of the other issues Ceton has acknowledged, I haven't seen anything from them on this one at all. Ceton has been mum - perhaps because this particular issue is a deal-breaker for many? Perhaps because they don't have a handle on it yet and don't know when they will? Like you said cdcellular, all of us early adopters are looking for some sort of reassurance that we're not just an extended set of beta testers who are paying for the privilege.

However I will say I'm not willing to give it months. Given the amount of time these tiny boxes have already sucked from me, I'm going to give it about another week. There is a limited return window (end of January through Newegg), but my current opinion is that I would rather recover my investment in the two Echos I bought and put a little bit more $ toward a bare-bones playback only computer to use as an extender. I believe I could make that setup work much better than the endless, tedious tweaking of the Echos.

I do have an official support ticket in with Ceton for my original HDMI issue, for which they were initially responsive. Now it has been about another 24 hours since I provided the follow-up info they were looking for, and nary a peep. Perhaps I need to be more patient, or perhaps my issues will just mix right in with the countless others posted here and expressed in reviews elsewhere. At this rate, their developers and tech support people are going to be overwhelmed in no time at all, just chasing issue after issue.

Man, I really wanted these things to work. Can I have the one from that Youtube product demo video? Sure looked like that one was working fine...

[RealCodeGuy]

I have nothing but respect for Ceton. They have always been a stand up company. I just wish they would acknowledge these issues exist. Maybe a blog post or something confirming the issues with an assurance that it will be sorted out, even if its going to take months to do so. The minute they do that, I'm sure a lot of us will stop bitching lol. I'd rather have an echo that is a work in progress, then no echo at all.

You asked for it, you got it. I knew I did the right thing by buying a third one. Ceton is a stand up company and has always done the right thing. This product will be no different.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... =69&t=3715

[jziggity]

Thank you, RealCodeGuy. I haven't been specifically looking at Ceton's site for updates, just basically monitoring things here. I would LOVE to see the jitter issue resolved. Unfortunately I'm still at a standstill with the missing video on just some channels. It took awhile to finally hear something back on my support ticket, only to hear "Have you tried updating your TV's firmware?" That was it. Umm yes Ceton, if you read my response, you would know that I already have. But thanks for taking 36 hours to come up with that highly enlightening response. It would be extremely helpful if I could just TALK to someone at Ceton, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I'm going to have to put these little guys away for a few days and just step back from all of the frustration. Hopefully by the time I plug them in again, there will be another firmware update waiting.