4K TV with 1080p WMC

[nathagt]

I have a question that seems simple but I can't find a straight answer. I have a 2nd gen Intel processor that does not support 4k resolution. I'm considering getting a new TV and would like to go with a 4K one in case I eventually upgrade my HTPC. My question is, will this cause problems or will the TV just upscale the 1080 signal? It seems like it would. I also have a Pioneer Receiver that only does 1080 sitting between the PC and TV. Thanks!

[STC]

All 4K TVs will upscale from 1080 source. I think I read davidinCT has a 4K capable GPU and has tweaked WMC to fire out at that resolution (performing the task of scaling instead).

[nathagt]

OK, so WMC will still think it is doing 1080p then? I know I read about some people getting a popup about unsupported resolution. It sounds like it should work, it's just a hassle to return a TV especially if you buy online so I'm being extra careful.

[stuartm]

I just bought a 4k OLED tv to replace my existing 1080p LCD. Was all just plug and play WMC still outputs at 1080p and the TV upscales just fine. (Note that I did have to go into the video configuration menu from the desktop and set it back to 1080p as it did change the desktop resolution to 4k/30 and I didn't want tiny icons etc.)

[STC]

4K TVs have to work with lower resolution sources. If they didn't you wouldn't be able to use them with today's output devices.

[bob_p]

Even if your graphics card and your receiver supported 4K, there's no reason to run WMC at 4K and have to deal with the higher bandwidth connection from your PC to your 4K TV - and to have the graphics card do the upscaling. All 4K TVs support the lower resolutions, and should scale as good as, if not better, than your graphics card, and are likely to have more settings to customize the image quality.

WMC was really designed for use with SD TVs. HD was added afterward (which is why the thumbnails are all 4:3 instead of 16:9).

It's unclear what will happen with WMC when 4K broadcasts are available - and if we can get WMC to support 4K, then you would need a graphics card capable of playing 4K. If you're receiver can't do 4K, then you could run one HDMI to the receiver for audio only and run a second HDMI to the TV for video only.

In our configuration, our WMC PC and receiver are in a closet with around 75 feet of HDMI cable run to the TV. It doesn't appear the cable that long haul cable will support full 4K resolution - so if/when we try to run 4K through our WMC PC, we'll have to make some configuration changes to get everything to work.

[DavidinCT]

All 4K TVs will upscale from 1080 source. I think I read davidinCT has a 4K capable GPU and has tweaked WMC to fire out at that resolution (performing the task of scaling instead).

I have a 65" LG 4K tv that I have been running for a little over a year now. I installed a GTX750 that is capable of outputting 2160P @ 60hz over HDMI 1.4a(plan to upgrade to a GTX950 for HDMI 2.0). I set the desktop to 4K (2160p @ 60hz) and when running WMC setup for the TV, I did custom and selected 4K. It does work but, you will get a message that pops up "The display is too high for WMC" this can be removed by a HEX edit of one of the WMC files, Mydigiallfe.info is where I got the info.

I did a direct compare, a USB 3.0 drive directly into the TV, or with the same video file on WMC, sitting about 10" from the TV (very close) did a A/B switch, I cant tell the difference.

And I think the Media Center does better scaling than the TV does. Running at 1080p vs. 2160p, the picture for most content (recorded TV) does look a hair better but, this will be up to each person.

The ONLY problem I ran into was My AVR only supports 4K @ 30hz. DONT run WMC at 30hz, it is choppy and sluggish, looks like crap. SO what I needed to do, is run a dual monitor setup, DVI (24+5) adapter goes to the TV, HDMI goes to the AVR. I set the 2nd monitor that does nothing(besides audio) to 1080p, the main monitor runs at 2160p @ 60hz), WMC always opens on the main monitor so a non issue.

This setup allows me to get 2160p video and gets audio to my AVR that give me full HD audio (DTS-HD, True-HD, Atmos, etc) and it all just works perfect.

Once you get it working PERFECT disable WIndows updates and backup weekly. Windows updates would always bring down something that would break it. I treat it as an appliance more than a Computer.

WMC was really designed for use with SD TVs. HD was added afterward (which is why the thumbnails are all 4:3 instead of 16:9).

I will have to disagree with that. Vista was designed around SD but, WIndows 7 was designed around cablecards (one of the primary parts of it) and HD was in mind from the start of it. You have to think about the time when WMC was released, and 1080i/1080p sources were all around

Your 4:3 thumbnails are a design aspect by Microsoft not a show of non HD support. There was a discussion about this exact subject in the beta tests for WMC and it was clearly FROM MICROSOFT quoted it was a design aspect.

Think of what the PC can do, WMC can scale up to what you request of it. WMC CAN do 4K but, if broadcasts change to 4K, that is a completely different issue.

[JonDeutsch]

It does work but, you will get a message that pops up "The display is too high for WMC" this can be removed by a HEX edit of one of the WMC files, Mydigiallfe.info is where I got the info.

Since I cannot find the info at mydigtiallife.info, can yo share the HEX edit trick?

Thx.
Jon

[WMCuser]

WMC was really designed for use with SD TVs. HD was added afterward (which is why the thumbnails are all 4:3 instead of 16:9).

wrong.... Microsoft obviously knew if the HD standard became more common they could easily support it.
and obviously it's true because HD works great with WMC.

[STC]

^Not quite. The WMC interface was designed for 4:3. HD was an addon pretty much at the point development stopped.

[mcewinter]

^Not quite. The WMC interface was designed for 4:3. HD was an addon pretty much at the point development stopped.

Vista + TV Pack (codename: Vail) was basically the HD transition for media center which was very much a beta for MC7.

[STC]

Thank you for the clarification. I recall not much happened after that other than a few bug fixes and porting over to new OS's.

[mcewinter]

That applies to the "roll your own" Media Center. I can't recall when OEMs began to provide a CableCARD solution; it may have been prior to that.

[STC]

ATI DCT single tuner heating appliance was 2007.

[mcewinter]

ATI DCT single tuner heating appliance was 2007.

My first HD experience with MC was with SDs QAM tuner on MCE2005. The channel line up had to be manipulated to list the QAM channels. It wasn't until "TV Pack" that I could watch HD TV/QAM native inside MC.

With all that said, It doesn't make much sense that the recorded tv list doesn't display 16:9 thumbnails. The 'videos' menu sure does.

[STC]

My first setup was a single analogue SVIDEO feed from a cable STB to a Hauppauge WinTV PVR150 on XP.
It ran quite well although you had to learn not to rely on watching liveTV.

[Dkeyguy1]

Don't forget the firewire to stb, I forget who's, I have it somewhere,
I do remember the 25 gb recording of Wyatt Earp, That started with MCE 2005

[DavidinCT]

It does work but, you will get a message that pops up "The display is too high for WMC" this can be removed by a HEX edit of one of the WMC files, Mydigiallfe.info is where I got the info.

Since I cannot find the info at mydigtiallife.info, can yo share the HEX edit trick?

Thx.
Jon

Hey Jon,

Sorry about the late delay... Do you know how to HEX edit a DLL file ? As this is what you need to do. One of the key thing is, look at the file you need to edit, right click and find the VERSION, you will see the version referenced, as if you apply it to a different version, you will break something out. And there is a tricky thing to change out system files on Windows, so if you don't know what you are doing, You are going to need to do a LOT of reading to get this going.

This is a little quick view on how to edit the file...
https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threa ... ost1204986

If your completely confused....Look around 15-20 pages before and after that, there is a little more detail, because I was clueless how to do it when I tried it.

This is the first one for eshell.dll version 6.1.7601.18968, x64

https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threa ... ost1205342

Now in a updated version (the last was an earlier version) ehshell.dll version 6.1.7601.19061 x64

https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threa ... ost1205623

This complexly removes, it, Media center no longer shows this error. I also disabled the Volume control pop up.. every time I would do something in WMC, the 50 in the corner (showing the volume) would always pop up on me, it was very annoying, with another HEX edit I was able to completely disable the Volume on screen display... There is another little hack too, where you can get WMC to play video (live TV and recorded TV) over an RDP (remote desktop) session...it does work...You would need to hunt that one down, it is there..

Neat little tricks you can do when modifying system files in Windows

Don't forget the firewire to stb, I forget who's, I have it somewhere,
I do remember the 25 gb recording of Wyatt Earp, That started with MCE 2005

Oh MCE 2005... XP Media Center... Oh the memories. I still use my HTPC case from that day (when they made cool cases), and on the side of it has my sticker with KEY for the OEM version of Windows XP media center edition, it's still on my machine..

^Not quite. The WMC interface was designed for 4:3. HD was an addon pretty much at the point development stopped.

Are you SURE about that ? I know that was the case on Vista WMC (was designed around a 4:3)then the TV pack added HD/Cablecard support but, HD in the US(broadcast) came out before Windows 7 release. I worked directly with (well, discussed projects) with the eHome team (a few people on there). Windows 7 Media Center was designed around 16:9 TVs with HD.

Install Vista on your HTPC, and run WMC... and then run WIndows 7 WMC... you'll see what I mean. I did it about 6 months ago to bring back memories...for a LOL

And for the record, Windows 7 WMC plays HD content fine. If it's 720p, 1080i, 1080p, or even 4K, it will play it back and looks great doing it (extra codecs needed of course to play some content)