Ceton Echo & Xbox cannot play H.264 protected content

Troubleshoot and discuss the XBOX 360, XBOX One, Linksys, and other extenders.
User avatar
Scallica

Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Location: USA!

HTPC Specs: Show details

#221

Post by Scallica » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:41 pm

theburnei wrote:sorry again don't have this button where is it
At the top and bottom of the page. You must be within a sub-forum, and not inside a topic/thread.
HTPC Enthusiast / Forum Moderator - TGB.tv Code of Conduct

Windom

Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:30 am
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#222

Post by Windom » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:37 am

Dang it,,,now my Showtime channel has switched to MPEG4 just today. HBO switched a couple of weeks ago. Well, at least they waited for Shameless to end.

Have we pretty much given up hope on this ever working again (on Xbox 360)?

joeer77

Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:22 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#223

Post by joeer77 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:56 pm

Windom wrote:Dang it,,,now my Showtime channel has switched to MPEG4 just today. HBO switched a couple of weeks ago. Well, at least they waited for Shameless to end.

Have we pretty much given up hope on this ever working again (on Xbox 360)?
I have. At least the HBO Go app works on the Xbox 360.

rykr

Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:25 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#224

Post by rykr » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:28 pm

Started seeing black video, only audio here a few months back. Random channels really. Seeing that it's the same symptoms that others are talking about I'm assuming that we are seeing the same thing. I am on Comcast in the Nashville area. Has it been determined that there is no way of geting the xbox 360 to handle these channels/shows that are now using H.264?

User avatar
Scallica

Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Location: USA!

HTPC Specs: Show details

#225

Post by Scallica » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:56 pm

rykr wrote:Has it been determined that there is no way of geting the xbox 360 to handle these channels/shows that are now using H.264?
There is no solution at this time.
HTPC Enthusiast / Forum Moderator - TGB.tv Code of Conduct

rykr

Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:25 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#226

Post by rykr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:31 am

Scallica wrote:
rykr wrote:Has it been determined that there is no way of geting the xbox 360 to handle these channels/shows that are now using H.264?
There is no solution at this time.
OK. Silicon dust here I come

User avatar
Scallica

Posts: 2797
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Location: USA!

HTPC Specs: Show details

#227

Post by Scallica » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:30 am

rykr wrote:
Scallica wrote:
rykr wrote:Has it been determined that there is no way of geting the xbox 360 to handle these channels/shows that are now using H.264?
There is no solution at this time.
OK. Silicon dust here I come
The issue occurs because the channels are using H.264 and are copy-protected. The issue does not occur if one or the other is not true. Silicondust's project does not support copy-protected channels at this time.
HTPC Enthusiast / Forum Moderator - TGB.tv Code of Conduct

webminster

Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:05 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#228

Post by webminster » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:58 am

And unless I'm mistaken, the XBox isn't on the roadmap as a SD-DVR client...
-Alan

rykr

Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:25 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#229

Post by rykr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:25 pm

Scallica wrote:
Scallica wrote:OK. Silicon dust here I come
The issue occurs because the channels are using H.264 and are copy-protected. The issue does not occur if one or the other is not true. Silicondust's project does not support copy-protected channels at this time.
I've seen weird behavior though. I have 7 tuners in my system (4 from Ceton card and 3 from SD HDHomerun Prime). I've had situations where (always on the xbox) a channel (regular channel like ESPN) would show as black video and only audio. I would then stop the playback, go into settings to edit the channel sources, and either move up in the priority list other tuners or disable some tuners. Then tune the channel again and it comes in. At one piont I was convinced that I had a faulty hardware tuner. I find it odd that a channel would show these symptoms and then not 2 minutes later play just fine. And while you say copy protected that really only means encrypted but still may be using the CC flag of copy freely. We are not just talking about copy once channels/shows.

rykr

Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:25 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#230

Post by rykr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:27 pm

webminster wrote:And unless I'm mistaken, the XBox isn't on the roadmap as a SD-DVR client...
XBox 360 true. I have some Nexus players that play the Android app just fine. Kodi works as well. And this summer when the Anniversary update hits, the XBox One will be a viable SD client as well.

User avatar
Bill

Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:23 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#231

Post by Bill » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:33 am

on my main TV, some of my premium channels have audio but no video. I do the 411 Info trick and it says codec is (not specified). my main pc should still be able to decode 264 right? i've installed sharks codec pack.
HTPCs, InfiniTVs, and Extenders OH MY!

camtah

Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:44 am
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#232

Post by camtah » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:01 am

Bill wrote:on my main TV, some of my premium channels have audio but no video. I do the 411 Info trick and it says codec is (not specified). my main PC should still be able to decode 264 right? i've installed sharks codec pack.
If on your PC, you are running a built in Intel video card, then what you see is what you get if these channels are DRM. Install a newer video card and they will work again. That is what I had to do (Comcast).

User avatar
Bill

Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:23 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#233

Post by Bill » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:20 am

ok, thanks for the help!
HTPCs, InfiniTVs, and Extenders OH MY!

atamas

Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:08 am
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#234

Post by atamas » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:20 am

I am in Chicago Comcast with an HDPrime Tuner. HBO stopped working on my main HTPC running an i3 processot this year after the switch that Comcast did. WMC shows no codec when doing info (411 Ctrl-D I think) on the HBO channel.

When connecting to HBO from a Microsoft Surface PC HBO works fine.

This then confirms that the issue is with the HTPC`s i3 processor architecture and not anything else upstream.

Since my HTPC is a SFF PC and I used up the extra PCI slot for USB 3 ports I am in a bit of a pickle. I may try a USB 3 video card solution but those may not work as well as a true video card.

Has anyone tried using the Plugable UD-3900 USB 3.0 Universal Docking Station with Dual Video Outputs for Windows 10, 8.1, 7, & XP (HDMI and DVI / VGA, Gigabit Ethernet, Audio, 6 USB Ports, 20W Power Adapter) as the video card?

It would be great if a solution was found to fix the i3 problem.

User avatar
Bill

Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:23 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#235

Post by Bill » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:01 pm

So i'm in the NW suburbs of Chicago, and they are slowly rolling out the 264 codec, mainly premium movie stations so far (HBO, Starz). Does everyone just get a black screen? I tried last night and my Echo just shows a very pixilated picture with sound. 411 Info shows unknown codec info. I don't know if that's better or a sign of hope for extenders. I'm running the shark codec pack on my main htpc.
HTPCs, InfiniTVs, and Extenders OH MY!

JTScribe

Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:46 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#236

Post by JTScribe » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:50 pm

atamas wrote:I am in Chicago Comcast with an HDPrime Tuner. HBO stopped working on my main HTPC running an i3 processot this year after the switch that Comcast did. WMC shows no codec when doing info (411 Ctrl-D I think) on the HBO channel.

When connecting to HBO from a Microsoft Surface PC HBO works fine.

This then confirms that the issue is with the HTPC`s i3 processor architecture and not anything else upstream.

Since my HTPC is a SFF PC and I used up the extra PCI slot for USB 3 ports I am in a bit of a pickle. I may try a USB 3 video card solution but those may not work as well as a true video card.

Has anyone tried using the Plugable UD-3900 USB 3.0 Universal Docking Station with Dual Video Outputs for Windows 10, 8.1, 7, & XP (HDMI and DVI / VGA, Gigabit Ethernet, Audio, 6 USB Ports, 20W Power Adapter) as the video card?

It would be great if a solution was found to fix the i3 problem.
I investigated that option and the verdict from the company was that the USB3 video cards can't stream anything but stereo audio over HDMI.

I'm basically in the same boat as you, SFF, one slot occupied by a Ceton tuner using onboard graphics. I can get an AMD board that will fit my case, but I will also have to invest in a new OS drive as I can't find any ITX AMD boards with full-length M.2 slots. *facepalm*

coolwhip

Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:52 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#237

Post by coolwhip » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:57 pm

Bill wrote:So i'm in the NW suburbs of Chicago, and they are slowly rolling out the 264 codec, mainly premium movie stations so far (HBO, Starz). Does everyone just get a black screen? I tried last night and my Echo just shows a very pixilated picture with sound. 411 Info shows unknown codec info. I don't know if that's better or a sign of hope for extenders. I'm running the shark codec pack on my main HTPC.
My Echo does the same thing if I switch from an H.264 unprotected channel to one of the premium protected channels. I put up a screen shot of this about 8 pages back. I think what we see is actually the DRM encrypted video being displayed on the screen. This encryption scheme uses skip encryption that encrypts something like 1 out of every 13 video blocks and that is why we can see a really messed up but recognizable video stream. Apparently the Echo sends this stream to the display without knowing that it is encrypted under certain conditions. DRM/PlayReady does not encrypted the audio.
My HTPC is AMD and has no problem playing the H.264 protected content.
IMHO I'm not sure where to place the blame for this problem. Is it the Echo/xBox H.264 implementation or something in WMC? There is a lot of good information in this thread but no solution so far.

Sammy2

Posts: 1708
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:35 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#238

Post by Sammy2 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:42 pm

Has this issue been contained to Comcast or is it infecting Charter or TWC/Brighthouse. With the merger pending if TWC or Brighthouse has it I could be next. My house is very close to TWC service area but I doubt they'll change head ends. Still something to be aware of.

RyC

Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#239

Post by RyC » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:38 pm

Don't believe Charter/TWC has any plans to switch to H. 264 at this time, and it may be a while if they do since they probably want to integrate the two companies first

cbfirth

Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 10:05 pm
Location:

HTPC Specs: Show details

#240

Post by cbfirth » Sun May 01, 2016 10:51 pm

We have been using Windows 7 Media Center with an InfiniTV 4 channel cableCARD receiver with two Ceton echo and 2 XBOX 1 network extenders for years. I adore Windows Media Center but despise Comcast and yearn for a la carte pay TV, free OTA and a smart TV in every room. Then someday, oh great GOOGLE, give me fiber to the home. I grew up with free OTA TV and we did not mind watching commercials because TV was free. But to pay $100 a month for thousands of channels of crap and more commercials than content? Bah! My grown sons have mostly cut the cord but my wife... well...

Like most of you on this thread, we received the letter from Comcast last year informing us they were moving to MPEG-4 and I confirmed with Ceton that it should not be an issue. Obviously, little did we all know on this forum that Microsoft has a DRM issue with MPEG-4. It recalls to mind an HDCP issue I was having with HDMI years ago. In any case, to summarize this thread, I believe we can define the scenario as follows (I have plagiarized and edited some prior posts):

Problem: Playback of protected content (HBO, Showtime, etc.) on Windows Media Center streams audio only, with black screen on network extenders (echo, XBOX 360, etc.) as well as on the WMC PC itself.

Comcast Response:

Comcast supports the new HD MPEG4/H.264 protect content for HBO, SHO, ENCORE, CINEMAX, STARS, & Premium Content Channels. Comcast is in compliance with the HDCP spec and newer HDCP SDK's have outpaced the HDCP code base of the WMC network extenders. The extenders will need to be re-coded, with newer HDCP development kits, to comply with HDCP for this MPEG-4 content. Comcast feels there is nothing that can be done, or should be done, from their end.

Ceton Response:

There is nothing Ceton can do via firmware or software as they are completely removed from the DRM/HDCP aspect of the process. They are not involved nor do they have access to Playready, as the entire DRM platform of Windows is one of Microsoft's most guarded codebases. Ceton network extenders are network devices responsible for communicating with the cableCARD and tuning frequencies. The InfiniTV receiver card does not know or care what data is on those frequencies either. Ceton is simply not involved in the video pipeline and does not encode, decode, display, process,or alter the MPEG-4 file in any way. Therefore the issue cannot be fixed with a software or firmware update.

Microsoft will have to update Media Center to add support for MPEG-4, as Microsoft does not support MPEG-4 between Media Center and it's Extenders. Ceton believes there may be a Playready DRM issue that prevents MS from performing this update even if Microsoft was inclined to begin supporting Media Center again which it is not.

Microsoft response:

None.

Note: Windows Media Center has been discontinued and is not available for Windows 10 unless you want to try a weird hack that is floating around.

Conclusion:

We are all out of luck as regards Media Center and premium content. Our alternatives include ponying up more to Comcast for AnyRoom® DVR and losing access to all our non-Comcast content sitting on our home network or cutting the cord entirely and losing a lot of live content we might want (sports primarily) and other cable content that my wife likes such as BRAVO (ugh).

The question is, do WMC users have enough leverage to demand a fix? I mean, the platform is not even supported any more. I would like to see a petition. Can we create a petition? Are there really millions of us? I don't know anyone personally. Which means I don't personally know anyone with the awesome, free, all inclusive, whole house media setup I have. To say goodbye to it seems so sad.

Post Reply