Ceton InfiniTV4 - Recurring No TV Signal Warnings

Ask fellow members about Ceton's infiniTV tuners here.
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richard1980

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#21

Post by richard1980 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:19 am

Well in that case, your InfiniTV signal strength should be hovering around -4 dB. I think that only leaves one possible answer....a faulty InfiniTV.

mwilson

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#22

Post by mwilson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:14 am

maximus4 wrote:I have within the past 2 years had the wiring from the pole to the house redone know for certain there are no other splitters, the main cable coming in was measured today at -.5db and yet, with that same cable that was tested connected directly to the ceton with 0 splitters or anything else at all, web diagnostics is showing -10db to -12db on all 4 tuners. With the single 2 way running just the TA and the ceton I'm up around -14db on all 4. I also tested this while gently pushing / spinning the dongle and nothing seemed to change. All connections were lightly tightened by wrench.

So might I need to get a small signal booster for just the ceton, to compensate? It seems a large 4 way booster would over boost everything that's not the ceton because that's the only place I'm having signal loss. Might there be a reason signal strength has never been mentioned by ceton support? They see those numbers right? Defective card.... I really hope not. I simply cannot afford to try this again.

I really do appreciate the help, and that link was very informative about loss. I think I get it, although I'm not sure where my loss is coming from. I miss my crappy cable box.
Do you have a channel tuned when you are looking at the signal strength? I'm asking because if you have sdv and you don't have a channel tuned, you're going to get incorrect signal strength readings.

With the 2 way splitter, you're dropping 3.5 dBmV so you're at -4 dBmV already before you connect to the infinitv 4. After you connect to the infinitv 4 its internal splitter is 4 way so you are dropping another 7 dBmV so you should be at -11 dBmV on all 4 tuners. With no splitter you should be at -7.5 dBmV.

The problem, however, is that you're going to get a different reading depending upon the frequency you have tuned so it's definitely possible that you could see -14 dBmV. If a channel isn't tuned, you'll get strange readings as well.

You definitely need to amp your signal. You'll just need to draw out your configuration and figure out the best way to boost the signal to the infinitv without boosting it too much for the other devices.

You could boost it from the cable feed to +15 dBmV then 2 way split it with one going to the ceton and the other to a 3 way with the -7s for the TA and Cable modem and the -3.5 to the bedroom. You'll need booster with a return path this way for the TA and cable modem.

You could 4 way split it with 1 going to an amp to boost it +11 or so for the ceton and the other three for the TA, cable modem and bedroom. You'll be -7.5 or so to the other devices but they should be fine.

I'm not an expert but I've been trough the same thing with my ceton.

maximus4

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#23

Post by maximus4 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:55 pm

I do have a channel tuned while checking, as the cable was working last night. Without a channel tuned ceton web diagnostics reports "NOT TUNED" as the signal strength.

Richard1980 had mentioned the 7db drop from the cetons internal 4 way splitter, then corrected himself saying there is an internal amplifier and that should not come into play, and I probably have a defective ceton card. Mwilson mentioned the 7db drop as a normal thing and recommends a booster. Can anyone else verify or deny the internal booster?

Also, I quickly looked around and it seems a good booster with 0db return path can cost over $200! Wow. It seems its is basically a required piece of equipment. With 4 tuners and a TA the signal MUST be split at least 5 times and if I want internet (which I do) that's 6. There are 2 bedroom TVs I can live without, but would rather not. I guess it boils down to the above question. Does the ceton count as a signal losing splitter or is it self amplified?

highfigh

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#24

Post by highfigh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:57 pm

The ceton is indeed self corrected. That's why my tuners show the same signal level across all 4 when recording 3 and watching one (+/- 1.5). These tuners, while not recommended, can be ran reliably towards the edge. I show -12 to -14 on most channels and have zero issues. When it starts warming up outside I may have to do something then.

maximus4

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#25

Post by maximus4 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:12 pm

Warming up? Is temperature a factor as well? I live in Maine, but its been a very mild winter. 10-40 degrees outside. Is that worth mentioning?

Also my 4 tuners never show the same signal, varying 2-3 DB between them.

highfigh

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#26

Post by highfigh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:28 pm

Yes temperatures will affect your signal levels. If you're borderline to good signal levels like I am then when it warms up you could see some problems. And I'm about 100 percent sure that the ceton does amplify internally. But I was thinking wrong in my post above. I think it is amplified before it is split 4 ways, not after the 4 way. So regardless your signal levels should be fairly consistent. Howeverv it will depend on what channel u are watching. Think it has something to do with the frequencies of the channels.

mwilson

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#27

Post by mwilson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:05 pm

I don't know that the infinitv has an internal amplifier. for example, I show +3 dBmV for channel 3 on the infinitv but I show +11 dBmV with my db loss meter that simulates channel 3 on the same line plus +11 for channel 3 on the cable box.

Some people also say they have two infinitv cards and one will show much different signal levels than the other.

maximus4

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#28

Post by maximus4 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:30 pm

Hmmmm... does anyone have a phone number for ceton by any chance? I would like to know their opinion on this but the support ticket system seems to have failed me.

highfigh

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#29

Post by highfigh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:44 pm

You know I think your right. I could be confusing things with tuning adapters. I think tuning adapters have a +2db amp built in so u can daisy chain them, even though you're not supposed to. I just checked my modem and I see 0 there and -11 on my ceton. I thought it was the other way around. Sorry about the confusion .

mwilson

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#30

Post by mwilson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:49 pm

maximus4 wrote:Hmmmm... does anyone have a phone number for ceton by any chance? I would like to know their opinion on this but the support ticket system seems to have failed me.
Ceton is very selective with what they will answer and what they won't. For instance, they've said they can reproduce the macroblocking issue but it's been months with no fix.

They totally ignore any posts and tickets related to the crash and reboot issue and memory leaks with the PCIe and USB tuners.

They have no published documentation for the infinitv device's hardware.

They are very secretive. I wish I had known then what I know now about them now as I would have waited on the HDHomeRun Prime.

You can try asking in the Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread as AVSForum. Eric might answer you but he might selectively ignore your post as well.

maximus4

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#31

Post by maximus4 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:04 pm

just to update i have heard back from ceton thru the support tickets. My cable worked well from Monday until today, and now I'm back in no TV signal land. Right on schedule... sigh... guess im sending another diagnostic off to them, and hope for the best. Does anyone else have the diagnostic generator lock up at collecting application list? I have about a 66% success rate with it. It gets stuck a lot.

Ill be away for a week so I won't be able to mess with it for a bit. I'm looking forward to it lol.
Ceton was not very concerned with my signal strength so I suppose that's a non-issue. They did mention i can use the TAs pass thru to lose a splitter.

Edit: I also got a firmware update midweek. No noticeable change.

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WhatHappend

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#32

Post by WhatHappend » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:43 am

-0.5 at the main connector means nothing if you don't reference it to a particular channel. I am sure the low frequency analog channels have around 0 dBm, but the HD channels are usually on the upper frequency range and coax cable has higher loss the higher the frequency (this adds up when you are miles from the cable plant). You will have to have a tech out with a digital signal meter and measure the signal (SNR and level) of the HD channels you watch.

maximus4

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#33

Post by maximus4 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:01 am

UPDATE:
been out of town for a week, just got back tonight to no tv signal and a bunch of 'no tv signal' warnings and a few 'no tuner' warnings (its been on all week) and a bunch of missed recordings. i got a response from ceton telling me:
"The signal levels in your last diagnostic look good. You mentioned in a previous reply that you had two tuning adapters? If this is the case, then we would recommend removing one of them. The current firmware your tuning adapter is reporting is the newest and greatest Cisco has to offer. It also supports up to six TV tuners at a time. The reason for multiple tuning adapters in the past was due to old firmware versions only handling two TV tuners eat a time. We would also like to enable some additional logging on your machine to try and determine what is happening. Please follow the steps below:

1. Close Windows Media Center
2. Open an _ELEVATED_ command prompt
3. Run the commands below:
REG ADD HKLM\Software\Debug\ehRecvr.exe /v DbgLevel /t REG_DWORD /d 0xffffffff
net stop ehrecvr
net start ehrecvr
4. Start Windows Media Center
5. Reproduce the problem
6. Collect an InfiniTV Diagnostic and upload it here.

Please let us know if you have any questions."

anyone know what any of this means? i responded telling them i didnt know what it meant and asked them to " PLEEEEEEEASE call me " i sent them another diagnostic.

regarding signal strength they say it looks good so i guess i will stop stressing it. and for the record i only have one TA connected, i thought i had made this clear but this has been a long ticket. i had 2 connected back in the day of 2 TAs.

edit - frustration removed...

maximus4

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#34

Post by maximus4 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:44 am

Update for the hell of it...

They walked me thru those crazy commands, and after I sent them a diagnostic said I did it right. Sent them a couple more every time the problem occurs.... Ceton then sent me a beta firmware, about a week ago. Didn't help anything, every couple days I lose everything for a random amount of time. Anyone want weird firmware? I just keep sending in diagnostics

Thinking of going all Netflix soon. I'm hoping for a more reliable data based service in the future.

keithvegas95

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#35

Post by keithvegas95 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:23 am

I am having similar problems with my Ceton. I constantly get recorder errors and tuner unavailable messages. After opening a ticket with Ceton and sending several diagnostics and logs, Ceton finally told me it looks like a Media Center problem and they are waiting for an update from Microsoft. Problem still exists.

tomtoth

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#36

Post by tomtoth » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:11 am

I just had this happen to me. 2 card tuners. Both were working for about a month, then now I have one tuner card showing -10 to -12 DB on every tuner on one card. -1.5db on the other working card (4 tuners). Swapped the dongles/coax and the DB levels follow the card. (Not the coax cable). So now I have one tuner giving me Signal warnings on all tuners. Have opened ticket with Ceton, so we will see.

vir2oso

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#37

Post by vir2oso » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:25 pm

I am having similar issues. I have had one Ceton card for over a year and every once and a while I would get Weak Signal strength or No Tuner found messages. I have recently added a second ceton card, having to split the coax line with a splitter to accommodate the two cards. Now, I am getting the messages constantly, sometimes missing recordings all together. I figured it had to do with me splitting the cable thus reducing the signal strength, but now after reading these posts, I'm not quite sure. I am about to move so I am not too worried about it, I'll deal with it in the new house. Please keep us posted on your findings and what Ceton comes back with. Thanks!

tomtoth

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#38

Post by tomtoth » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:24 pm

tomtoth wrote:I just had this happen to me. 2 card tuners. Both were working for about a month, then now I have one tuner card showing -10 to -12 DB on every tuner on one card. -1.5db on the other working card (4 tuners). Swapped the dongles/coax and the DB levels follow the card. (Not the coax cable). So now I have one tuner giving me Signal warnings on all tuners. Have opened ticket with Ceton, so we will see.
Ceton issued an RMA last night and am shipping card back to have it looked at. Fast response, so I'm hoping they can fix it.

John Galt

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#39

Post by John Galt » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:13 pm

For everyone else that hasnt sent it back, get the latest beta firmware. It solved all of these issues for me. And i do mean ALL.

New cablecard detected
No tuner avaiable
Long delays after resume to get a picture.
False copy protected tv errors
Random recording error popups that resulted in recording anyhow
Truncated recordings.

Almost all were crashes of the card because of a bug in the public firmware but they clearly did other things that makes e beta way more stable than any pervious version ive ev tried.

jwill42

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#40

Post by jwill42 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:25 pm

John Galt wrote:For everyone else that hasnt sent it back, get the latest beta firmware. It solved all of these issues for me. And i do mean ALL.
What version of FW do you have? 1.1.6.9? 1.1.7.2? Something else?

How long have you been running the new FW?

Also, do you have a USB or PCIe InfiniTV?

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