Quad DVB-T2 tuner for W7 WMC ?

Help with tuners from ATI, Hauppauge, AverMedia and more.
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Boo

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Quad DVB-T2 tuner for W7 WMC ?

#1

Post by Boo » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:55 pm

Hi,

I am in the UK and have a TBS6284 card in my W7 WMC based HTPC which has the opposite from "normal" problem in that it is fairly reliable in starting up from sleep and fairly unreliable starting up from power off. Once it has failed though, it doesn't come back on its own without a lot of patient rebooting.

It seems that both BlackGold and TBS have stopped making quad tuner DVB-T2 cards and I wondered if anyone knows such a card made by someone else ? I see BG have a pair of BGT3620s for the price of a 3650 but people's reliability stories regarding these cards putts me off the current versions.

Anyone know the skinny about what may be coming up for release in this area ? Or do I just have to put up with my PC failing to record programs every week or so ?

Thanks,

Boo

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holidayboy

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#2

Post by holidayboy » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:03 pm

I guess you've already tried moving it to different slot etc?

Does the card appear at all in device manager when it disappears on reboot? Yellow exclamation marks or anything?
Rob.

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CyberSimian

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#3

Post by CyberSimian » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:48 am

Boo wrote:I am in the UK and have a TBS 6284 card in my W7 WMC based HTPC which has the opposite from "normal" problem in that it is fairly reliable in starting up from sleep and fairly unreliable starting up from power off. Once it has failed though, it doesn't come back on its own without a lot of patient rebooting.
If you have scanned this website for references to the TBS 6284, you will know that I have had (and still have) problems with my TBS 6284 card (actually, a pair of TBS 6284 cards).

It is difficult to know what the problem is. Someone on the TBS website observed that their TBS satellite card (DVB-S2) was 100% reliable, but that their TBS terrestrial card (DVB-T2) wasn't; they noticed that the two cards use different PCI-E interface chips, and they speculated that the problem might be with the design of the interface chip used by the DVB-T2 card, or with the TBS drivers that interface to that chip.

There also seems to be a problem with the version of the PCI-E standard that the TBS 6284 uses. Specifically, it uses version 1.0a (note the suffix "a"), and it seems that many motherboard manufacturers forgot to support version 1.0a when they were adding support for version 2, and (later) version 3. So update your motherboard BIOS to the most recent available, and check if it mentions support for 1.0a. If 1.0a is not supported, and your motherboard is still in production, ask the manufacturer to update the BIOS to support 1.0a. Some have found that their motherboard BIOS supports a "PCI-E compatibility" mode; if yours offers that, try enabling it to see if it makes a difference.

For my HTPC (a Dell XPS420), there is the distinct possibility that the motherboard BIOS is defective. I say this based on the fact that the TBS 6284 card works fine in the 4x PCI-E slot, but not in the 1x slot or the 16x slot (the slot for the graphics card). In my case, the TBS 6284 card disappears on wake from sleep when used in the 1x or 16x slot. The significant fact is that other cards also have problems waking from sleep when placed in the 1x slot (a Kworld DVB-T tuner, and a Belkin 4-port USB2 card); hence my conclusion that it may be the motherboard BIOS that is the problem.

Interestingly, I have found that the TBS 6284 card works correctly in the 1x slot when I use hibernation instead of sleep (although hibernation is not ideal for an HTPC). However, when I was running two TBS 6284 cards (in the 1x slot and 4x slot) and using hibernation, I found that the tuners on a card interfered with each other: when tuner "Y" started recording, with tuner "X" already recording, a momentary blip would occur in the recording from tuner "X". This was not interference between cards, but interference within cards, but it only occurs when there are two TBS 6284 cards in the system. It also requires a particular combination of circumstances for the error to occur. I do not have another system into which I can install these cards, so I do not know whether it is a problem with two cards in a system, or a problem with the motherboard BIOS. (To avoid this problem, I am currently running one TBS 6284 quad tuner DVB-T2 PCI-E card, with two Pinnacle 2000i dual tuner DVB-T PCI cards.)

So where do we go from here? I have been toying with the idea of building a new HTPC, in the hope that a different motherboard would cure these PCI-E card problems. That might be the solution for you also, but you should first verify that your TBS 6284 card is not defective. Does it behave itself in a different PC, or does the problem recur?

If finance is not a constraint, TBS have just released a new quad tuner card (the TBS 6285), and a new dual-tuner card (the TBS 6281). Allegedly, these cards have improved PCI-E compatibility; they also use different tuner modules (but "different" does not necessarily mean "better").

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

Boo

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#4

Post by Boo » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:37 pm

holidayboy wrote:I guess you've already tried moving it to different slot etc?

Does the card appear at all in device manager when it disappears on reboot? Yellow exclamation marks or anything?
Yes, I tried different slots to no avail. There is nothing at all in device manager on the occassions that the card is not found - no yellow exclamation marks, no entry, nada :(

Boo

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#5

Post by Boo » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:45 pm

CyberSimian wrote:
Boo wrote:I am in the UK and have a TBS 6284 card in my W7 WMC based HTPC which has the opposite from "normal" problem in that it is fairly reliable in starting up from sleep and fairly unreliable starting up from power off. Once it has failed though, it doesn't come back on its own without a lot of patient rebooting.
There also seems to be a problem with the version of the PCI-E standard that the TBS 6284 uses. Specifically, it uses version 1.0a (note the suffix "a"), and it seems that many motherboard manufacturers forgot to support version 1.0a when they were adding support for version 2, and (later) version 3. So update your motherboard BIOS to the most recent available, and check if it mentions support for 1.0a. If 1.0a is not supported, and your motherboard is still in production, ask the manufacturer to update the BIOS to support 1.0a. Some have found that their motherboard BIOS supports a "PCI-E compatibility" mode; if yours offers that, try enabling it to see if it makes a difference.
...snip...
So where do we go from here? I have been toying with the idea of building a new HTPC, in the hope that a different motherboard would cure these PCI-E card problems. That might be the solution for you also, but you should first verify that your TBS 6284 card is not defective. Does it behave itself in a different PC, or does the problem recur?

If finance is not a constraint, TBS have just released a new quad tuner card (the TBS 6285), and a new dual-tuner card (the TBS 6281). Allegedly, these cards have improved PCI-E compatibility; they also use different tuner modules (but "different" does not necessarily mean "better").
I was aware of the PCIe-1.0a issue and set my BIOS to PCIe 1 mode (motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H). I have no other PC to conveniently try it in and the error is only intermittant anyway so it would be hard to determine whether it had stopped happening or not.

From your remark on the new TBS 6285 I googled and found this website http://www.cclonline.com/product/108983 ... d/VGA0990/ which states
Windows 7 Power-saving / resume from sleep
Some customers have reported that the TV tuners on these TBS cards become disabled after the PC resumes from sleep mode. This is due to Windows 7's power saving configuration on the PCI Express bus. In order to prevent the problem occurring, please change the PCI Express Link State Power Management setting to 'off'. It can be found in Control Panel > Power Options > Change Plan Settings > Change advanced power settings > PCI Express > Link State Power Management.
I have tried this and will report back if it effects a cure.

I can't find a 6285 anywhere in the UK and would want to be completely assured it fixes the problem before springing the extra cash for a new card, if reports are uniformely good than I may consider that later.

Boo

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#6

Post by holidayboy » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:12 pm

That link looks like the 6284 card (an expensive one at that!)

I've bought from the site below in the past, though hopefully that power management setting will help you out.........:

http://www.buydvb.net/dvbt2-tv-tuner-pc ... -p-93.html
Rob.

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Boo

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#7

Post by Boo » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:42 pm

holidayboy wrote:I've bought from the site below in the past, though hopefully that power management setting will help you out.........:

http://www.buydvb.net/dvbt2-tv-tuner-pc ... -p-93.html
Unfortunately the power management setting did not help at all and I am back where I started. The link you kindly posted is in the USA and I cannot find a UK seller for the TBS 6285 quad card so if anyone knows a way to get 4 reliable DVB-T2 tuners into a PC I ould be grateful to know how ? I can take full height cards and also have room for two of them if that helps...

Thanks,

Boo

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CyberSimian

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#8

Post by CyberSimian » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:36 am

Boo wrote:Unfortunately the power management setting did not help at all
Same for me. I have had that PCI-E power management setting disabled for months, and it did not help when I tried the latest drivers from TBS a few months ago.
Boo wrote:The link you kindly posted is in the USA
I thought that "buydvb" was located in the far east? There is a "Singapore Post" logo at the bottom of the page, so perhaps they are in Singapore? But you would still have to pay VAT on import into this country, and (because of the VAT) you would also have to pay a customs clearance charge. And, of course, returning a defective unit is more complicated.

I believe that in the USA items declared as a "Gift" are free from sales tax/import duties, but that exemption does not apply in the UK; only items valued at less than circa £15 are free from VAT/import duties.
Boo wrote:I cannot find a UK seller for the TBS 6285 quad card
I purchased my TBS 6284 cards from "Southern Satellite" in the UK. They also trade under other names, and I think that they are now called "Red Apple Digital". They do not currently list the 6285:

http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/category-s/1865.htm

However, I would expect them to stock the TBS 6285 in due course; remember, the 6285 has only just been released.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

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holidayboy

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#9

Post by holidayboy » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:41 pm

Yeah, I think buydvb is China or somewhere close. I've never needed to return an item so can't comment on customer service in that regard.

My last purchase was labeled "sample" and customs went easy on me!

Saw this:
http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/TBS-69 ... p/6985.htm

Edit: sorry, that's the 6985 - I'm using my phone, think my eyes are getting worse! :lol:
Rob.

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#10

Post by milli260876 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:22 pm

I returned my tbs6981 under warranty directly to tbs. No issues, they even let me pay for an "upgrade" to a 6984 !!
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#11

Post by Pixelz » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:22 am

This may be old news, but I've found no problems with my TBS6284 resuming from S3 sleep or rebooting when using the latest v1.0.0.7 drivers.

I'm also interested in the TBS6285 assuming TBS find a UK distributor. However, it's not clear if the 2 F-connectors on this card both require a UHF signal, or if one is an output for pass-through to another device.

Does anyone have this information?

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#12

Post by CyberSimian » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:31 am

Pixelz wrote:I'm also interested in the TBS6285 assuming TBS find a UK distributor.
Red Apple Digital (formerly Southern Satellite) are now listing the TBS 6285 for £159 inc VAT with free next-day delivery; see here:

http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/TBS-62 ... p/6285.htm

They are still listing the TBS 6284, which is (curiously) 95 pence more expensive than the TBS 6285.
Pixelz wrote:However, it's not clear if the 2 F-connectors on this card both require a UHF signal, or if one is an output for pass-through to another device.
The specs for the TBS 6285 include:

RF-Input impedance 75Ω (IEC-DIN female)
RF-Output impedance 75Ω (IEC-DIN male)

I don't know what is meant by "IEC-DIN". Is that an F connector?

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#13

Post by Pixelz » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:47 am

@cybersimian

Thanks for the information. I should have noticed that one connector was listed as RF output.

I might try Red Apple Digital for a new TBS6285 -- anyone want to buy an almost new TBS6284 :-)

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#14

Post by holidayboy » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:51 am

I might try the 6285 too.
Rob.

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#15

Post by apbms1 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:18 pm

Ive just ordered one direct from tbs for £131 .

DETAILS IN THE OWNER THREAD http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 934#p61934

WORKS VERY WELL.

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