No sound on live tv or recordings - everything else works!

[dustindeckard]

Hello all,
I have spent the last week or so diving head-first into 7MC and have been having an absolute blast. I have an HD Homerun Prime but am only using two tuners for free digital cable - I figured I'd decide on getting a cablecard in the future once I have WMC all set up to my liking. I have also configured Media Browser with a premium theme and several excellent add-ons, which have really brought my media collection to life. It's stunning - I am in love with the whole system.

The only problem is that I have never gotten live TV or recorded TV to play audio on the HTPC itself. Through an extender (Xbox 360) the audio works just fine. But on the HTPC, it "pops" (loudly, for a split second) whenever I change channels or begin playback of something recorded. The video is perfect... but no audio. I should also note that anything else played through WMC is fine - Netflix, AVIs, MKVs, etc... all fine.

I have searched this forum and done quite a bit of searching around the web, so please forgive me if I missed something obvious. I've tried to resolve this on my own and am stuck. My worst fear is resorting to rebuilding Windows or reinstalling WMC, as I have poured a lot of time into configuring everything. You're my only hope! (thanks in advance )

[newfiend]

How are your components hooked up? HDMI, optical? Are you going from htpc to avr or htpc direct to tv?

Sent from my WP7 using Board Express

[dustindeckard]

How are your components hooked up? HDMI, optical? Are you going from htpc to avr or htpc direct to tv?



Sent from my WP7 using Board Express

Hi newfiend! Sorry for the super late reply

My HTPC is under the television, and I'm using HDMI out through the GPU to the TV, with all audio coming out of the TV through optical, into my soundbar. All other sound is working fine, it's just the recorded and live tv within WMC that has trouble. I'm totally stumped.

[newfiend]

Are up to date on drivers/BIOS Version for your mainboard? You may be running into a HDCP issue where Recorded TV or Live TV will not output audio if both an HDMI Cable and an OPTICAL out of the TV are both hooked up?? (possability as i am not sure..)
Do you have an Optical Output on your Mainboard? If so try hooking the optical output on the Motherboard to your sound bar.
Open Control Panel>Sound
Select the optical output and make it the default device. I am assuming that the soundbar is basically a stereo set of speakers so set the optical to 2.0 stereo.
Test,save and exit
Open Media Center
Select Tasks/Settings>General>Windows Media Center Setup>Set Up Your Speakers
Run through the next set of screens. Select the Optical Out, then 2.0 stereo(2 speakers) for speakers. Test Save and Exit the settings back to the Media Center main menu strip. Close (exit) Media Center. Reopen Media center and test one of the recordings or Live TV.
Post back if this doesn't work for you.
newfiend~

[dustindeckard]

Are up to date on drivers/BIOS Version for your mainboard? You may be running into a HDCP issue where Recorded TV or Live TV will not output audio if both an HDMI Cable and an OPTICAL out of the TV are both hooked up?? (possability as i am not sure..)
Do you have an Optical Output on your Mainboard? If so try hooking the optical output on the Motherboard to your sound bar.
Open Control Panel>Sound
Select the optical output and make it the default device. I am assuming that the soundbar is basically a stereo set of speakers so set the optical to 2.0 stereo.
Test,save and exit
Open Media Center
Select Tasks/Settings>General>Windows Media Center Setup>Set Up Your Speakers
Run through the next set of screens. Select the Optical Out, then 2.0 stereo(2 speakers) for speakers. Test Save and Exit the settings back to the Media Center main menu strip. Close (exit) Media Center. Reopen Media center and test one of the recordings or Live TV.
Post back if this doesn't work for you.
newfiend~

Hi newfiend - thanks again for the replies -
All of my drivers are up to date. My mainboard doesn't have optical out - I am using HDMI out of the gpu, which goes into the TV. From there, I'm using my television's optical out, which goes into the soundbar. I prefer to use the TV's optical out as I like the minimal setup of the soundbar + sub, without any receiver. The TV has done a great job of managing this for me, and I also use it for the PS3, OnLive, Xbox, and Revue. I don't think the audio running out of the GPU > TV > soundbar is the problem, but I'm open to any ideas at this point. I think the issue is software related, since it works perfectly for most functions, and only fails within WMC.

To clarify, the problem occurs when opening live tv or any recorded tv within WMC. I hear a "pop" that sounds like static, and then nothing at all. When I open up another type of media, I then here a fainter "pop" and the sound works flawlessly. Even if I open up Media Browser from within WMC and play an MKV, the sound works fine immediately. It's only live tv and recorded tv.

Thanks,

Dustin

[newfiend]

Are up to date on drivers/BIOS Version for your mainboard? You may be running into a HDCP issue where Recorded TV or Live TV will not output audio if both an HDMI Cable and an OPTICAL out of the TV are both hooked up?? (possability as i am not sure..)
Do you have an Optical Output on your Mainboard? If so try hooking the optical output on the Motherboard to your sound bar.
Open Control Panel>Sound
Select the optical output and make it the default device. I am assuming that the soundbar is basically a stereo set of speakers so set the optical to 2.0 stereo.
Test,save and exit
Open Media Center
Select Tasks/Settings>General>Windows Media Center Setup>Set Up Your Speakers
Run through the next set of screens. Select the Optical Out, then 2.0 stereo(2 speakers) for speakers. Test Save and Exit the settings back to the Media Center main menu strip. Close (exit) Media Center. Reopen Media center and test one of the recordings or Live TV.
Post back if this doesn't work for you.
newfiend~

Hi newfiend - thanks again for the replies -
All of my drivers are up to date. My mainboard doesn't have optical out - I am using HDMI out of the gpu, which goes into the TV. From there, I'm using my television's optical out, which goes into the soundbar. I prefer to use the TV's optical out as I like the minimal setup of the soundbar + sub, without any receiver. The TV has done a great job of managing this for me, and I also use it for the PS3, OnLive, Xbox, and Revue. I don't think the audio running out of the GPU > TV > soundbar is the problem, but I'm open to any ideas at this point. I think the issue is software related, since it works perfectly for most functions, and only fails within WMC.

To clarify, the problem occurs when opening live tv or any recorded tv within WMC. I hear a "pop" that sounds like static, and then nothing at all. When I open up another type of media, I then here a fainter "pop" and the sound works flawlessly. Even if I open up Media Browser from within WMC and play an MKV, the sound works fine immediately. It's only live tv and recorded tv.

Thanks,

Dustin

This is just my semi-educated guess as to what "may" be happening. Recorded TV and Live TV have Broadcast Flags http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag in the streams. A broadcast flag is a set of status bits (or a "flag") sent in the data stream of a digital television program that indicates whether or not the data stream can be recorded, or if there are any restrictions on recorded content. This is a requirement of HDCP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandw ... Protection is a form of digital copy protection developed by Intel Corporation to prevent copying of digital audio and video content as it travels across connections. These connections include popular ones like DisplayPort (DP), Digital Visual Interface (DVI), and High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI), as well as less popular, or now defunct, connections like Gigabit Video Interface (GVIF), and Unified Display Interface (UDI).
Since You have a Protected path from HTPC (HDMI CABLE) to TV the Audio/Video signal is working as it should and you are getting Audio and Video for the other formats .MKV etc. (because of the lack of flags in the content stream) But when you play Live TV or Recorded TV with the broadcast flags in them it is causing your TV to "halt" the audio out of the Optical output on the TV to your sound bar (most likely causing the pop you are hearing then static then no sound). Basically... The movie studios and TV studios do not want you to get, or be able to get a digital copy off of an optical output of HDCP protected (Flagged NO COPY) content and be able to record that to another device.
Now.,. If you were sending the Audio from the HTPC into the Soundbar via HDMI (protected path) and out of the soundbar (HDMI output with another HDMI cable) back to the TV then I believe that audio would play on your recorded TV and Live TV. Since Optical is not considered a "protected path" HDCP requirements built into the TV may be disabling the sound output via optical from the TV itself.
If you can add an optical out of the HTPC to the Soundbar I think you would be able to work around this as I described in my previous post.
I am no expert but I believe this may be what is happening.. It could also be a hardware issue on your end but since it is only on recorded and live tv I would put my money on HDCP getting in your way.
newfiend~

[tony_park]

I wonder if trying something like Slysofts Anydvd HD would help?

[richard1980]

Newfiend, I don't think your HDCP idea is correct. My AVR doesn't have HDMI input, so I use optical from the PC to the AVR. I've never had any type of HDCP issue, and the majority of my content is copy protected.

[newfiend]

He has an optical from the TV to his sound bar though, not optical from PC to sound bar.Currently the Audio is traveling from HTPC via HDMI to TV then Optical out of TV to his Sound Bar. Any chance his TV isn't letting the sound pass through for some reason? (HDCP?) I suggested he try from PC to sound bar but his PC doesn't have an optical output.
The reason I suspected this was that lets say you have some protected content on the PC, a TV Show, A Movie ETC.. If HDCP requires a Protected Path for Audio and Video between endpoints (HTPC and TV or AVR) wouldn't that require a HDMI cable?
And If he is currently sending the Audio and Video from his PC via HDMI to the TV (Protected path) everything else for him works fine as long as it has no copy protection.
I thought the whole Idea of HDCP was to limit our (the end users) ability to make a digital copy of Video or Audio.. If the Optical output works off the TV wouldn't we be able to hook up an optical cable to say another PC with an optical input and be able to record a perfect digital audio copy off that output on the TV? something HDCP was designed to prohibit? I could have this all backward but that was my thought on how it worked..?
newfiend~

Sent from my WP7 using Board Express

[richard1980]

I needed to go look it up anyway. From the HDCP license agreement:

3.3 Digital Outputs. No output of Decrypted HDCP Content is permitted except as follows:
3.3.1 Audiovisual Content.
3.3.1.1 A Presentation Device shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content to digital outputs, except, if the Presentation Device is also a Repeater, as expressly provided in Section 5.3 of these Compliance Rules. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Presentation Devices may output the audio portions of Decrypted HDCP Content that is Audiovisual Content in (a) analog form shall be limited to 1.5 times normal speed, unless the pitch is corrected to the pitch at normal speed. Except for the requirement just described, sound quality of analog outputs is not restricted in any way; or (b) digital form in either compressed audio format or in Linear PCM format in which the transmitted information is sampled at no more than the equivalent of 48 kHz and no more than 16 bits per channel and, for Licensed Products that are not an internal peripheral or software component of a Computer Product shall ensure that the SCMS information corresponding to “Copy-never” is used for outputs that utilize SCMS.

That bold portion authorizes the output of DD 5.1 over any non-HDCP digital connection.

[newfiend]

I needed to go look it up anyway. From the HDCP license agreement:

3.3 Digital Outputs. No output of Decrypted HDCP Content is permitted except as follows:
3.3.1 Audiovisual Content.
3.3.1.1 A Presentation Device shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content to digital outputs, except, if the Presentation Device is also a Repeater, as expressly provided in Section 5.3 of these Compliance Rules. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Presentation Devices may output the audio portions of Decrypted HDCP Content that is Audiovisual Content in (a) analog form shall be limited to 1.5 times normal speed, unless the pitch is corrected to the pitch at normal speed. Except for the requirement just described, sound quality of analog outputs is not restricted in any way; or (b) digital form in either compressed audio format or in Linear PCM format in which the transmitted information is sampled at no more than the equivalent of 48 kHz and no more than 16 bits per channel and, for Licensed Products that are not an internal peripheral or software component of a Computer Product shall ensure that the SCMS information corresponding to “Copy-never” is used for outputs that utilize SCMS.

That bold portion authorizes the output of DD 5.1 over any non-HDCP digital connection.

So in essence he should be getting audio output on the optical cable for his Live and Recorded TV. Think then that maybe his Playready is messed up? Could he use the DRM Reset tool to see if that fixes it? Wonder if the OP has changed any hardware recently that may have broke his DRM/Playready?

[richard1980]

Well, that really depends on what the TV is doing with the audio stream. If it's passing the stream to the sound bar as DD, and the sound bar cannot decode DD, he wouldn't get any audio.

DRM is not the issue. In the OP, it is pointed out that there is no CableCARD actually involved. So all he's getting is ClearQAM, which means at least part of his content is copy-freely.

To the OP, try disabling Dolby Digital output on the PC. Go to Tasks > Settings > TV > Audio, and check the box that says "Auto volume". Save your changes by clicking the Save button on the left, then try to play live or recorded TV.

[newfiend]

Yep your right.. didn't notice that he was only getting ClearQAM.. Hopefully your right and it's just a decoding issue for him. that would be a simple fix if thats all it is. (BTW.. always like it when you get involved in my posts.. I always learn something new, Take Care Richard!)
newfiend~

[dustindeckard]

To the OP, try disabling Dolby Digital output on the PC. Go to Tasks > Settings > TV > Audio, and check the box that says "Auto volume". Save your changes by clicking the Save button on the left, then try to play live or recorded TV.

Holy wow - you guys are incredible. As soon as I switched it to Auto Volume (which, as I understand it, disables DD) the sound comes through on live and recorded TV! No more popping. Everything is A-OK now.

It goes without saying that I'm incredibly grateful - thanks Richard and newfiend!

I do have a rather vague question to tie things up, though: is this setup not ideal? Is it not in my best interest to have Dolby Digital enabled? I am a big fan of soundbars and am thinking about upgrading to a nicer Yamaha unit (like the YSP-4000BL). If I did that, the soundbar could act as a true AVR, whereas now my TV is acting as the AVR with a single audio-out to the soundbar. (for the record, I've been insanely impressed with my little $100 vizio soundbar + $100 polk sub setup, but think it's time to upgrade)

Any final recommendations for a newbie like me to get the most out of his new HTPC/WMC/MediaBrowser rig?

[newfiend]

To the OP, try disabling Dolby Digital output on the PC. Go to Tasks > Settings > TV > Audio, and check the box that says "Auto volume". Save your changes by clicking the Save button on the left, then try to play live or recorded TV.

Holy wow - you guys are incredible. As soon as I switched it to Auto Volume (which, as I understand it, disables DD) the sound comes through on live and recorded TV! No more popping. Everything is A-OK now.

It goes without saying that I'm incredibly grateful - thanks Richard and newfiend!

I do have a rather vague question to tie things up, though: is this setup not ideal? Is it not in my best interest to have Dolby Digital enabled? I am a big fan of soundbars and am thinking about upgrading to a nicer Yamaha unit (like the YSP-4000BL). If I did that, the soundbar could act as a true AVR, whereas now my TV is acting as the AVR with a single audio-out to the soundbar. (for the record, I've been insanely impressed with my little $100 vizio soundbar + $100 polk sub setup, but think it's time to upgrade)

Any final recommendations for a newbie like me to get the most out of his new HTPC/WMC/MediaBrowser rig?

It will depend on a few things..
Do you plan on adding Blu-Ray playback now or in the future? The problem I see with soundbars is what you just experienced. Lack of decoding ability. Yes IMO Dolby Digital would probably sound better. It is all in how good you want everything to sound. I like the "theater experience" when I watch movies. I went with an AVR than can decode Dolby and DTS including the HD audio formats DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD found on Blu-Ray disks. I love the 5.1 surround especially when watching a Blu-Ray with a great soundtrack like Transformers etc.. I also have all Polk Speakers hooked up to my AVR and it just sounds awesome.. Keep in mind that when selecting an AVR to get one with lots of codec support. The more it can decode the better. Denon, Harmon Kardon, Sony, Pioneer all make good AVR's but do your research before purchasing. I pieced my audio set up together one piece at a time until I had all my Speakers, AVR, Wiring etc.. then hooked it all up. Took me quite awhile to afford it all that way... 6 Months or so but I was so glad I did it.
I am very happy that you are getting your sound from Live and Recorded TV now. Glad it was just that simple. Richard always has good input. He's a smart one. Glad we have him here for help! He deserves the credit for this one. But I think we all learned a lesson on this post.
newfiend~

[richard1980]

I'm glad I could help!

Depending on the bar and how it is designed, you might see better performance by feeding it 5.1 instead of 2.0. Discreet multi-channel soundtracks are specifically mixed to be played back with discreet speakers placed in specific positions relative to the audience, so the sound bar has specific positioning data for all the sound in the soundtrack. This could potentially increase the "accuracy" of the pseudo-surround effect you get from a sound bar.

If you want my honest opinion on how to get the most from your system, I'd tell you to ditch the sound bar concept and get a true 7.1 system. But that's just my opinion, and I know you have your preference.

[dustindeckard]

Depending on the bar and how it is designed, you might see better performance by feeding it 5.1 instead of 2.0. Discreet multi-channel soundtracks are specifically mixed to be played back with discreet speakers placed in specific positions relative to the audience, so the sound bar has specific positioning data for all the sound in the soundtrack. This could potentially increase the "accuracy" of the pseudo-surround effect you get from a sound bar.

I went with an AVR than can decode Dolby and DTS including the HD audio formats DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD found on Blu-Ray disks. I love the 5.1 surround especially when watching a Blu-Ray with a great soundtrack like Transformers etc.. I also have all Polk Speakers hooked up to my AVR and it just sounds awesome.. Keep in mind that when selecting an AVR to get one with lots of codec support. The more it can decode the better. Denon, Harmon Kardon, Sony, Pioneer all make good AVR's but do your research before purchasing. I pieced my audio set up together one piece at a time until I had all my Speakers, AVR, Wiring etc.. then hooked it all up. Took me quite awhile to afford it all that way... 6 Months or so but I was so glad I did it.

Thanks again for the replies! I have considered the 7.1 setup and understand it's the only "true" way to get a real theater experience. The aesthetics are important to me, though, and although I do find a lot of speaker models (especially Polk) very attractive, a soundbar like the Yamaha YSP-4000 would work a lot better with my living room size and furniture, so I'm pretty sure that's what I'm going to upgrade to. My little Vizio soundbar now is just 2.0 with an attached Polk sub, but I use the "surround sound" mode on it and it does a decent job of simulating multiple speakers. The Yamaha, on the other hand, has a whopping 40 tweeters and from reviews, seems to do an extremely good job at bouncing the sound around to simulate surround. Also, it seems to have plenty of built-in decoders! This is what Amazon lists: DTS-ES decoder, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1, DTS decoder, Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, Dolby Digital, DTS Neo:6, DTS 96/24, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1.
Any thoughts or concerns on that?

As for bluray - yes, I do want to incorporate bluray playback into my setup. Right now, between my tuner (HD Homerun Prime) and WMC and my Media Browser plugin + metabrowser (which I am in love with) for my archived rips, I have a wonderful system that is easy enough for my partner to use but gives me all the information and functionality I could dream of... except for bluray. I do have a decent library of blu discs, and would love to be able to play them in WMC, but it seems that's out of the question. (?) I saw that VLC 2.0 released this week and can allegedly handle blurays, but I haven't tested it. I had previously heard that because of licensing fees, the only real way to get authentic bluray playback on a PC was through software like PowerDVD. Do you have any recommendations in that regard? We put in blurays rarely enough it's not too big of an issue to have to use different software, but keeping everything inside of WMC is my dream.

[dustindeckard]

Oh - and I forgot to mention, I have found one last (hopefully!) annoying issue...

Thought the MediaBrowser plugin, I have an add-on called "Intros" that can play quick video files prior to a movie, when launching from a certain media collection (my movies, in this case). Combined with another add-on for HD Trailers, I basically have it programmed so that whenever I launch a movie, it will choose 2 recent trailer releases to play, and then play 2 appropriate intro videos, such as for Dolby DTS, THX, etc. It's kind of cheesy, but I get a kick out of it and it always impresses.

Except for that the same audio issue I had with live/recorded TV (a "pop" and then silence) occurs with these intro videos, as obviously if the video is for DTS then the audio is, as well. Do you know of any way to correct this, or should I just hold off on fixing more issues like this, as a true AVR will resolve all of these?

[newfiend]

I use Total Media Theater 5 for Blu-Ray playback from within MC. http://www.arcsoft.com/totalmedia-theatre/ It has the Best looking MC interface to date and works really well. See if you can find a sound bar that supports DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD as well. Those soundtracks on blu-ray are amazing if you have the correct speaker set up. I have a small Sony home theater in a box setup in my bedroom with wireless surround speakers.. Works well,.. not like my polks mind you but it definitely adds a nice surround sound you can only get by actually having surround speakers. Might be something to look into.
As far as the POP is concerned it's the same decoding issue..The soundbar just can't decode the audio stream. I would leave it alone until you can upgrade AVR's or find a sound bar that supports the audio codecs better. Those darn sound bars are expensive. You could almost go with a AVR and run cables and get better sound, although I know you really don't want to do this,.. Wish ya lived closer, I would have you over to listen to the beginning of Transformers 3 on Blu-Ray... You would probably change your mind..


Sent from my WP7 using Board Express

[John Galt]

Hope this helps others With this: in my case this is caused by a bug in the
Atest ati audio drivers. The first time you install the drivers it was fine. Any restart and it would stop working. Second restart and after a few seconds of playing without sound id get the dreaded diplay driver error. Realized that itwas sound though and solved it by using the realtek amd hdmi audio driver.

Voila, no more sound issues ever. Also worked better overall of sync issues and pairing as well.