WMC won't show some channels with 100% strength

DenverOTA

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WMC won't show some channels with 100% strength

#1

Post by DenverOTA » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:57 pm

I have been using an HDHomerun Connect, with a rooftop antenna (RCA ANT751R) and WMC successfully for the last 2.5 years. In my guide, I see a channel (3.1) which has programs I'd like to watch/ record. When I click on it, I briefly get the channel info at the bottom, then just a blue screen. I called the station, and they said they have a repeater < 2 miles from my house! I tried our kitchen TV, which isn't on our HDHR/ WMC system (just a amazon basics flat antenna) and I get the channel perfectly.

When I use WMC to edit the source of 3.1, it says: Digital Antenna (ATSC) 2 times (I'm assuming since its a 2 tuner box) and at bottom: Silicon Dust HDHomeRun Tuner, Channel 41.1, Quality=100%. If I use HDHR View, or HDHR Config GUI, it does not detect 3.1. Very frustrated a cheap antenna picks up this channel, but the HDHR/WMC system won't. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

dmagerl

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#2

Post by dmagerl » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:32 pm

Is that KCDO?

Rabbitears.info says its on channels 23 & 34 but also carried on KSBS's carrier on ch41. ch41 is a repeater for KCDO. Thats kind of confusing all by itself but it gets even better!

Rabbitears also says that ch41 is moving to ch19 for the upcoming frequency repack. My guess is that the repacking happened and the station moved from ch41 to ch19 and that the guide data in WMC hasnt been updated to reflect that move.

THere are two things you can do.
1. Do nothing and just wait a few days and the guide should catch up to the actual frequency assignment.
2. Use WMC's Add Missing channel GUI and manually add channel 3.1 on physical channel 19. Then manually associate the guide data to the new channel using the Edit Channel GUI. That should fix the issue if the station really did move. Then in a few days you can check and delete the newly added station once the guide starts populating the correct frequency. (or it could be that either ch23 or ch34 is the correct channel number. You'll have to try manually adding both of those if ch19 doesnt work).

By the way, that 100% signal strength is a bug in WMC. It always says 100% regardless of how strong the station is.

BTW, Denver has 12 stations impacted by the frequency repack so you're going to be going through a lot of this kind of thing in the near future.

DenverOTA

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#3

Post by DenverOTA » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:00 am

Thanks dmagerl for your detailed response. It is KCDO.

Under WMC settings, I chose guide, then add missing channels. I added 19.1 (must include a decimal), then it asked for a frequency (2 digit #). I had no idea what to put, so I put 10. There was no picture when I chose this new channel (really wasn't expecting there to be). Under edit listings for my new channel, I chose combine with channel 3.1. The other option was use listings from 3.1. Again, no picture.

I guess I confused when you say "manually add channel 3.1 on physical channel 19". Was I wrong to name the new channel 19.1? Is the frequency "19"?

dmagerl

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#4

Post by dmagerl » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:03 am

You added it wrong.

It should be 3.1 on channel 19. Logical channel first, then the actual physical channel.

Here's another thought. On most TVs you can enter either the logical channel or the physical channel. So if you punch in 3.1 on the remote, it goes to channel 3.1 but it should also go to channel 3.1 if you enter 19. So you should be able to try all 3 physical channels, 23, 41,and 19 on your TV and see which one works.

DenverOTA

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#5

Post by DenverOTA » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:56 am

When you say 3.1 on channel 19, do you mean add channel 3.1 with 19 as it's frequency? Sorry I'm not getting this...

I went to live TV on WMC and cycled thru all the channels and did not see the program which was currently playing on 3.1 (per the guide on KCDO) on any channel. I did try entering 19, 23, and then 41 on the WMC remote and came up with dead channels. I did a new scan for all channels (in WMC) before I did the above, so I'm starting to think my HDHomerun unit is at fault, since my kitchen TV ("rabbit ears") gets this channel just fine.

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#6

Post by dmagerl » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:23 am

Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying. channel 3.1 on frequency 19.

I guess for WMC its:
digital tv channel 3.1
assigned frequency 19

When I said try 19, 23, 41, I meant to try it on your tv, not WMC. It should be a quick way to tell which of those frequencies is the right one. Just enter 19 on the tv's remote and you should see the tv's onscreen display switch to 3-1 and the station should tune in. It has to be on one of those 3 channels.

Its not the HDHomerun fault. If a tuner dies, it usually takes out all channels, not just one of them. I really suspect this is due to frequency repacking. The FCC auctioned off the channels above ch26 to the wireless industry last year. Stations that are located above ch26 have to be either shut down, moved to a channel below 26, or become a subchannel on another station. KCDO on ch41 must move to a frequency below 26, its moving to channel 19. The repacking began this year. Denver has 12 stations that are moving so you'll be busy making these changes for a while.

Or you can just wait it out and wait for Rovi to change the guide data to the new frequency in a few days.

DenverOTA

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#7

Post by DenverOTA » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:19 pm

I tried pushing 41 on my rabbit ears TV and it went to CH 3.1. I then set up a new digital channel 3.1 (in WMC) with a frequency of 41; did not work. I bypassed HDHR box & directly hooked the roof antenna to my main TV and successfully receive 3.1 (to make sure the roof antenna direction wasn't the cause). I'm not sure if this is the problem, but KCDO has 3 sub channels: 3.1, 3.2, and 3.3. When I check the source of these channels in WMC, they are 41.1, 41.2, and 41.3. All do not work thru HDHR/ WMC, but do work with rabbit ears...

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#8

Post by dmagerl » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:05 pm

OK, so repacking hasnt happened yet. ch41 is still the valid channel.

That leaves one other cause, a PSIP error. PSIP, Program and System Information Protocol, is basically information that tells what the various bits are in the transmitted datastream. WMC is particularly sensitive to PSIP errors. One way to tell if its PSIP is to go to WMCs signal strength scan , tasks/tv/tvsignal/digital tv antenna signal strength and look for a good signal on the affected station.

If it's showing a good signal strength and the station isnt coming in, thats usually indicative of a PSIP error from the broadcaster. There's nothing you can do if its a PSIP error except contact the engineering dept of the station and explain the problem. The response is dependent on how receptive they are to complaints. If it is a PSIP problem, other WMC users in your area should be having the same problem. You could head over here, http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local- ... ndex2.html, Find Denver in the list and then ask if anyone else is having problems with the station using WMC.

If its showing bad signal strength, well, thats it, its bad signal strength. But I dont understand why the tv would work but WMC wont. Which HDhomerun model is the tuner? The early HDhomeruns, the ones with 2 antenna connectors, were 1st generation ATSC tuners which are generally less sensitive than the current generation tuners in most modern tvs.

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#9

Post by DenverOTA » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:10 pm

I did the strength scan. My working channels had 5-6 green bars, far away channels (eg. CO Springs) had 1 red bar, and around a dozen, including CH3.1, had 3 orange bars. I clicked on a few orange bar channels, and they don't show up like 3.1.
Weird that the rabbit ears picture is flawless, w/o any pixalation. I'm wondering if HDHR/WMC just needs a stronger signal to work. My rooftop antenna is pointed almost 180 degrees away from where I was told this repeater is (2mi distance) from my house. I may try rotating it to see if that works, though I'd have to set up a 2nd antenna as a permanent solution.

This is my HDHomerun Connect device: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GY ... UTF8&psc=1
It has a single antenna input.

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#10

Post by dmagerl » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:26 pm

Well, thats it, its plain bad signal. You'll have to figure out how to get an antenna pointed at it.

You have several options:
1. Somehow aim your antenna half way between the stations and hope it works (it usually doesnt)
2. Use an antenna rotor (doesnt work well with a dvr)
3. Use two antennas and combine them into one feedline (doesnt work well when skip comes in)
4. Use two antennas, two feedlines, and two tuners. A tuner is dedicated to each antenna. Then configure WMC to use a specific tuner for each station in the guide.

#4 works the best but is most expensive because of the extra hdhomerun needed. Also, its really time consuming to set up in WMC and it has to be redone every time you re -setup tv in WMC.

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Crash2009

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#11

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:15 am

As dmagerl said all ready, it is best to eliminate bad signal as a first step. After that, if needed, you might want to try this simple hack for erroneous weak signal by changing the WeakSignalDroppedThreshold

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/vie ... 69#p101769

To resolve this issue yourself, use the following steps to modify the registry.

Exit Windows Media Center.

Click Start, type regedit in the Search box and press ENTER. If you are prompted with a User Account Control message, click Yes to continue.

Locate and then select the following registry subkey:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectShow\Debug

From the Registry Editor menu, click on Edit->New->Key. Change the name of the new key to BDA.

Click on the newly created BDA key. From the Registry Editor menu, click on Edit->New->Key. Change the name of the new key to MSNP.

Click on the newly created MSNP key. From the Registry Editor menu, click on Edit->New->DWORD (32-bit) Value. Change the name of the new value to WeakSignalDroppedThreshold.

Right-click on WeakSignalDroppedThreshold and then click Modify. In the Value data box, type 32 and click on OK. (Leave the "Base" setting at the default, Hexadecimal.)

On the Registry Editor menu, click on File and then Exit to exit Registry Editor.

Shut down Windows and restart your PC.
Attachments
WeakSignalDroppedThreshold001.jpg
Last edited by Crash2009 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#12

Post by dmagerl » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:34 pm

I''m still confused as to why it works on the TV and not WMC. WMC showed 1 red bar of signal. That shouldn't have worked on the TV either. HDhomerun tuners arent that insensitive.

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#13

Post by dmagerl » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:13 pm

I just had a thought.

When you installed the HDhomerun, it installed a program called Hdhomerun Config GUI. Run that and then enter ch41 and see what signal strength the HDhomerun is reporting.

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Crash2009

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#14

Post by Crash2009 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:18 pm

Could be a bunch of splitters involved. HDHR might be last in line.

Or network. Any WiFi or multiple switches/router's in the mix?

DenverOTA

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#15

Post by DenverOTA » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:02 am

3.1 showed a 3 yellow bar signal in WMC. HDHR GUI shows 25%. I found out I'm probably picking up a signal called KCDO 3.1LP (low power). My rooftop antenna is pointed directly at it. I can't find anything about the supposed repeater 2 mi from my house. I may give crash's idea a try...

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#16

Post by DenverOTA » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:11 am

I have 1 router, but have a switch (hard wired to downstairs router) which the HDHR is plugged into in my bedroom. Might be the cause, I had to update this switch to make the HDHR unit work a few years ago. Would a 2nd router in my bedroom (where my antenna coax and HDHR unit plug in) help?

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Crash2009

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#17

Post by Crash2009 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:38 am

This is what I would call an ideal network. Everybody is on the same switch. Tuner, WMC HTPC, and all the Xbox's can talk all they want easily, through the same switch.

All the WAP's (Wireless Access Points) are connected to the one and only router, and whomever connects to them has an easy out to the cable modem and internet.

Sounds like you have something like the above all ready.

Most likely your issue is with the upstairs antenna (or its cable and or connectors) and its inability to present (3.1) correctly to HDHR and WMC.

If you are unable to correct the problem with software or waiting for the Broadcast Station and Guide Data to Sync.....you might have to troubleshoot the list in the first picture.
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ExtenderNetwork001.jpg

dmagerl

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#18

Post by dmagerl » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:00 pm

KCDO's repeater is KSBS on Lookout Mountain. Its only 15 kilowatt so it is a low power station. Go here:
https://rabbitears.info/market.php?requ ... er#station for all the technical details on Denver's stations. Scroll down to see Denver. Just click on the station's callsign to see more info.

If you're getting 3 bars on WMC, that may explain why you're getting it on the TV and not on WMC. 3 bars seems to be the WMC threshold between good/bad reception. I should have asked this up front but have you ever gotten this station? It looks like all the other stations on Lookout Mountain are in the 100KW range.

Perhaps you can try a preamp? You dont need much gain, just enough to get over 3 bars in WMC and you stand the risk of overloading all the other stronger stations (you're only 13 miles from the transmitter). But if you go to Home Depot or some other big box store that sells antennas and has a good return policy, you can buy a cheap amp and try it out.

FYI, www.Rabbitears.info is a good site for technical info on a station. If you want reception information, www.tvfool.com is good for showing maps and projected signals at your location.

DenverOTA

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#19

Post by DenverOTA » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:12 pm

I'm going to try a pre-amp from amazon, seems like an easy solution if it works.

Thanks to both of you for helping me with this issue!

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Crash2009

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#20

Post by Crash2009 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:34 am

You might want to check into this also.....5 suggestions to eliminate bad cable.

https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/posts/3297106/

If you have an ohmmeter, with both ends of the cable disconnected, you can measure from the center conductor to the outer and it should read infinite, no continuity, if it doesn't then the cable is probably bad, or there is a switch or something somewhere in the mix. If that test is good, with both ends of the cable disconnected, short the center connector on one end to the outer and measure across the center and outer connector on the other end, you should have continuity that way with very low resistance. If the resistance is high than the cable is probably bad, or a switch or something is in there somewhere.

Check that the cable is RG6 and not RG59. It's probably [and should be for an OTA antenna and DirectTV] RG6. IT should be marked right on the side of the cable somewhere what it is. RG59 doesn't work well at all with OTA signals.

If the cable run is real long you may need a pre-amp to boost the signal, how long is the cable that you're trying to use? The F-connector on some of those Antennas Direct antennas break loose very easily, check that it doesn't feel loose and wobbly, if it is, the connection inside of the junction block may be broken.

Read more at https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/thread ... 5SRoTo1.99

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