WTV Stutter on HTPC

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carljanderson

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WTV Stutter on HTPC

#1

Post by carljanderson » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:33 am

I have all of this space, and didn't know what to do with it. I decided I would use the HTPC as a HTPC and begin ripping my DVD's to the PC. After some trial and error, I finally settled on WTV as the format, as I had the space, able to use FF/REW/Skip, etc. So I start ripping, and as part of my QA process I would attempt to view the material from my wirelessly connected X280N extender, assuming that if it was viewable there, it would be viewable anywhere.

Wrong. The movies are nearly unwatchable on the HTPC. Every couple of minutes the video stutters for a few seconds as the audio plays perfectly (this is true for South Park, MiB, MiB2, Nemo, etc.). I was able to watch Finding Nemo on my wired XBOX extender with 2 VERY TINY almost unnoticeable glitches.

I have tried un-selecting any options in the Radeon Control Center, and the issue is still there.

The South Park Season DVD's were ripped to MKV via MakeMKV, and then I would use the DVRMSToolkit GUI to convert the MKV to uncompressed WTV. I also have MyMovies and Auto Rip and Compress installed. I used Auto Rip and Compress for the movie DVD's. I don't think ARC could be the issue, since it just calls out other programs. The ARC settings were uncompressed WTV.

I have an AMD A8-3850 based HTPC with the Asus F1A75-M Pro Mobo, and the DVD WTV's are on a WD Green SATA-2 2TB drive (the 3.0Gbit)..


Any words of advice?I am open to moving one of the movies to a WD Green SATA-3 drive or starting the whole process over and anything in between. I could even install a GT430 into the HTPC and move my 5450 to the PC with the GT430 and use the onboard nvidia6030 on yet another PC. Edit - Copied a movie to an older system (Athlon 64X2 5600+, GT430, Kingston V100 SSD) and it stuttered in WMC.

Thanks in advance,

Carl

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newfiend

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#2

Post by newfiend » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:04 pm

When it stutters.. does it do it in the exact same spots on the HTPC and Extender? Or is it at just random times at different parts of the Audio/Video? Update DirectX here: http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=35 if it's happening in random spots and see if it helps.
Have you thought about AnyDVD HD and Handbrake if the file isn't encoding correctly? I have used Handbrake numerous times and it works very well! It won't make a WTV file but It will get (or should get you) a very good quality .MKV.
VideoReDo is good for making .WTV files I have heard, although I have never tried it.
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carljanderson

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#3

Post by carljanderson » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:43 am

DirectX didn't work.

It is random.

looks like I may need to re-encode a WTV into something else. Maybe back to MKV, and then get the MKV to play on my X280N and XBOX.

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newfiend

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#4

Post by newfiend » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:14 am

carljanderson wrote:DirectX didn't work.

It is random.

looks like I may need to re-encode a WTV into something else. Maybe back to MKV, and then get the MKV to play on my X280N and XBOX.
If it's random it should't be a file encoding problem because if it was you would get the problem in the same spot of Audio/Video every time on any PC/Xbox/Extender etc.
Do you have any codec packs installed? usually .WTV works really well for MC as it's the container used for recorded TV. I think your problem may be elsewhere maybe a codec pack or driver related issue with video or audio.. Have you checked for updated drivers etc? as well as BIOS updates for the mainboard?
If you have a codec pack installed have you tried removing that and trying the file again?
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carljanderson

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#5

Post by carljanderson » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:47 am

It's weird, but it is random in between the HTPC and Extenders (both xbox and x280). However, I copied Men in Black to the other computer with Windows Media Center installed to see when the first stutter occurred, and it occurs at the same time as the main WMC system. It happens where the scenes shift from when the alien leaps off the building to when the bug lands and there is no stutter on the extenders, yet it happens on 2 different PC's.

A 411-Info debug does show that at that scene the frame rate goes from 29.97 to 59.94 and stays at 59 for a few seconds. Once the video smooths out, the FR goes back to 29.97

AMD Drivers are be to date.
Windows is up to date.
ASUS Bios up to date.

Had Shark installed and removed it.(no difference)I was tempted to try the AMD pack, but haven't yet.
I have even been changing all of the AMD driver settings I can think of.

The older machine had no codecs ever installed on it.

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#6

Post by richard1980 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:08 am

Well there's your problem...the 29/59 framerate change. Not sure if you are aware of the issue, but there are several threads about it at WEC....some of them quite long. Here's a wiki article that explains the issue: http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/71.aspx. The wiki article lists a workaround, but that doesn't necessarily apply to you. In lieu of the listed workaround, you could locate the broken portion of your ripping process and fix it.

carljanderson

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#7

Post by carljanderson » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:20 pm

richard1980 wrote:Well there's your problem...the 29/59 framerate change. Not sure if you are aware of the issue, but there are several threads about it at WEC....some of them quite long. Here's a wiki article that explains the issue: http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/71.aspx. The wiki article lists a workaround, but that doesn't necessarily apply to you. In lieu of the listed workaround, you could locate the broken portion of your ripping process and fix it.
Yes I am aware, especially since the A8 Llano didn't handle the frame rate change well at all initially (the AMD drivers are getting much better).

3 things that are different though..

1) it is apparent on my system with a GT430

2) this wasn't a broadcast, it was a MakeMKV rip from DVD and DVRMS to a WTV file.

3) The HBO 29/59 appears to my eyes as more of a judder, whereas this on the video just stops for 3/4 - 1 second, tries to catch up with the audio, stops again for 1/4 - 1/2 second, and repeats until it gets back in sync.

Maybe I do have to go Any DVD HD to Handbrake to DVRMS to get a WTV file, and make sure I force the framerate to 29.97. Oh well, I was trying not to have to re-rip everything, but I may have to. Luckily, the wife will be out of town all week next week.

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newfiend

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#8

Post by newfiend » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:00 pm

What Driver version are you using for the GT430?
I have had issues with Nvidia Drivers as of late. The WHQL driver (285.62) has a MC bug that will give you Audio but no Video and the only stable BETA driver at the moment for the GT430 is 290.53. If you are using the 295.51 BETA is has a flicker problem in the driver that I and others have noticed (29/59 bug). This is a first for me on my GT430.. I had to back off to the previous BETA to smooth things out again. I have never had a flicker problem with that card until this latest BETA, And Nvidia I guess forgot about WHQL drivers as we haven't had one in months now..weird :crazy:

Also If you are going the re-encode route check into VideoReDo as well it might help you to get to a .WTV file a little quicker.
http://www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm

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carljanderson

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#9

Post by carljanderson » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:33 pm

since the GT430 was on the older system, it isn't up to date with the newst WHQL or Beta drivers. I was on 280.26, and when I migrated off of that system there was no discernible 29/59 judder.

Before I try videredo, I am going to try once more with MakeMKV and leave it as a MKV see what it looks like before using DVRMS toolkit to get it to .wtv. I am slapping myself right now for just thinking of it. I have been using AnyDVD HD (3 days left for me) and Handbrake. The issue with the handbrake MKVs is that I haven't figured out the correct video settings. The PQ has been meh, which makes sense, since the file size for a movie is 1GB vs. 3+GB before.

Now that I have MKV's on the extender, I may just bypass the WTV step.


(Side Note: I know I am going to hate myself once I figure this, as it could very well be a simple fix. As it stands right now, this is a fun project!!!)

thanks guys for the help so far!!

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newfiend

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#10

Post by newfiend » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:42 pm

carljanderson wrote: Had Shark installed and removed it.(no difference)I was tempted to try the AMD pack, but haven't yet.
You wrote that your video would pause for a second then speed to catch up.
I remembered from reading cw-kids guide to setting up Sharks007 pack that he had an issue with this as well on some files..
from his guide here: http://thedigitallifestyle.com/w/index. ... ack-magic/
Because I have some AVI files with 5.1 audio sound tracks in them, I am going to change one setting on the SWAP tab. I am going to tick Disable Windows DMO video codec. I find if I do not disable this setting when I play AVI files in Windows Media Center that have 5.1 audio they don’t play properly, the audio becomes out of sync and the video can get stuck for a moment and then speed up to catch up.

If I disable Windows DMO video codec all these problems go away and the AVI files with 5.1 audio play well in Windows Media Center. There is one drawback however, if you check this setting you will break online trailer playback in the My Movies Trailer Library. The trailers will not play at all and you will see a video error in Media Center. I’ve never been able to figure that out.

IMO.. I hate codec packs... They always seem to cause more headaches than they fix. I wonder if the codec pack you installed has somehow messed up your Windows codecs. Windows 7 has most of the common codecs built in and you really only need to add a .MKV splitter and the reg hack for that to get most things to play. I add the Zune software as well (i have a zune pass) which adds support for .mp4 files (microsoft codecs as well). I try to keep my system as simple as possible, the only things I install are Haali, Reg hack for .MKV, DIVX codec pack (more for Extender purposes), Zune software and AC3 Filter (as some of my files require it). That's it. I have had really good luck with my system this way even though setting up AC3 Filter took a lesson from Richard1980 for me to get right (Thanks Richard!!) It has been smooth sailing since.

I would hate to suggest a clean install of Windows for you but it might become an option if you can't get rid of the stutter problem. Starting with a Vanilla set of Microsoft Codecs might fix the problem. I hope that you have better luck than this though and can figure out what's causing it.
Good Luck!
newfiend~

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#11

Post by carljanderson » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:55 pm

newfiend wrote:I would hate to suggest a clean install of Windows for you but it might become an option if you can't get rid of the stutter problem. Starting with a Vanilla set of Microsoft Codecs might fix the problem. I hope that you have better luck than this though and can figure out what's causing it.
Good Luck!
newfiend~
If I need to, next week is looking good as the wife will be out of town. However, it may not be necessary (but I may anyway, I love TechNet).

It appears the uncompressed MKV file from MakeMKV was fine at that point in MiB, so I need to watch it in its entirety. I forgot to uncheck the subtitles, so I need to recreate the MKV. If true, it looks like there was something I may have missed in the DVRMS toolbox.

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#12

Post by newfiend » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:03 am

Keep us posted on the progress.. hope you can get it sorted w/o having to resort to reinstalling windows.. that's such a PITA i know.. but we have all had to do it from time to time.
Let us know how you get on.
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#13

Post by carljanderson » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:19 am

newfiend wrote:Keep us posted on the progress.. hope you can get it sorted w/o having to resort to reinstalling windows.. that's such a PITA i know.. but we have all had to do it from time to time.
Let us know how you get on.
newfiend~
Will do.

BTW, i think I installed shark007's after I discovered the stutter. Watching MiB right now, let's see.. (so far, it feels like i may just re-rip from DVD to MKV and stop there).

I still may re-install Windows one last time to clean up after this mess.

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#14

Post by carljanderson » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:31 pm

It appears I may be using MakeMKV and VideoRedo as my method of getting DVD's to WMC and my extenders.

It appears that the skipping was caused by something in the MKV -> WTV process via todvrms.exe.

I tried MKV files and the DiVX codec pack but the video was horrible on my x280n. The video was squashed to where I had to use Zoom 4 to fill the screen. Video was worse when I used Handbrake as well.

Looks like I will be giving up some flexibility by not using MKV, but I would be minimizing the use of codecs. Should I rebuild the PC next week, I would only be installing the Haali Splitter.

More work needs to be done before I pay for MakeMKV and VideoRedo to make sure it is doing what I want/need, but it is in the lead.

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#15

Post by newfiend » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:45 am

I use .MKV for most of my HD files. I really don't FF or REW much while watching a show.. Pause/Play yes.. but FF and REW hardly ever. I have considered converting them to .WTV as well but figured why? since i never use the FW and REW... If you can convert your DVD to DVR-MS or DVD to .WTV you will get full FF and REW as I am sure you already know. VideoReDo has been around for awhile and was always highly recommended at WEC and the OLD GB community for converting files to DVR-MS and .WTV.
Glad that you narrowed down the problem hope the rest of your project goes smooth.
Good Luck!
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#16

Post by miles267 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:01 pm

Hi - I was wondering whether you ever sorted out this issue. I too have the same A8-3850 and Asus F1A75-M PRO motherboard combination and am experiencing the exact same video stutter when converting MKV to WTV.

I recall having the same issue with an earlier system using a Gigabyte mobo and AMD X4 965BE CPU which was remedied by disabling AMD's Cool and Quiet power saving feature in the Gigabyte BIOS. I've since disabled all CPU power saving features in the ASUS bios and noticed a significant improvement in the quality of MKV to WTV conversion however it's not gone completely. I can confirm the issue still occurs even if/when the system isn't under 100% CPU utilization.

That said, when I playback the same WTV on my media extender (xbox 360), there isn't an issue. So clearly the problem has something to do with the playback of the WTV and not the conversion process itself. At least, that's how it appears.

Try going into your ASUS BIOS on the CPU config tab and disabling all of the power saving features. While they do drastically reduce the CPU core temps at idle, the chip seems to idle/run cool even with them disabled.

Please let me know if this helps you.

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#17

Post by carljanderson » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:52 pm

miles267 wrote:Hi - I was wondering whether you ever sorted out this issue. I too have the same A8-3850 and Asus F1A75-M PRO motherboard combination and am experiencing the exact same video stutter when converting MKV to WTV.
Miles,

I did not seem to have the problem when I used VideoRedo to convert the MKV to WTV files. I don't know why DVRMSToolbox would cause the problem.

If you have time, you can get a lot done in the 15 day trial for VideoRedo TV Suite. After the 15 days, it is nearly $100 for the TV Suite H.264, which supports WTV. I don't know if I am going to pull the trigger. After 8 days of the trial, I am now starting to get reminders that I only have 7 days left in my trial and asking if I want to buy the product. It happens when I open the program, and when I save a file after processing. So, when I was batch processing it stopped after EVERY file asking me if I wanted to buy. For some reason, it annoyed the crap out of me.

However, what I want to try before the period is up is a BluRay rip to WTV with MakeMKV and VideoRedo, and also play with some of the re-encode settings like converting to 720p., etc..

Carl

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#18

Post by miles267 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:42 pm

Carl, thanks for the suggestion. I've never used VideoRedo before. Will give it a try. However how are you obtaining the xml metadata for Windows 7 media center with VRD Suite? This is probably my favorite feature of DVRMSToolbox with todvrms.exe.

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#19

Post by carljanderson » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:38 am

miles267 wrote:Carl, thanks for the suggestion. I've never used VideoRedo before. Will give it a try. However how are you obtaining the xml metadata for Windows 7 media center with VRD Suite? This is probably my favorite feature of DVRMSToolbox with todvrms.exe.
I am using My Movies to gather and display the metadata information, as well as the movie cover art.

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#20

Post by stuppid » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:05 pm

I use video redo and encode to dvr-ms and it works great on extender and on the htpc. It also works well with my WD live plus. I can't live without fast forward and rewind. I also kept everything dvr-ms as my brother is still using Vista and I can share with him.

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