Upgrade from Vista to Windows 7

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Upgrade from Vista to Windows 7

Post#1 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:24 am

About to move from a reasonably stable Vista to Windows 7. Have run the Microsoft upgrade advisor and apart from a possible issue with one of the two hauppauge tv tuners (not sure why) it gives me the go ahead. My setup has the operating system on one drive and all of my music/recorded TV etc on a second so I am hoping not to lose anything during the upgrade.

Bit of an open question but what should I be thinking of in terms of a trouble free change? I have nothing else on the system (i.e. it is only used for Media Center) so I have no word processing/ email files etc to back up. - I do have things like "Scan Channels BDA" and mutliple tuners software (which I believe will become redundant) and "Remote Potato" and a couple of DMA2100s

Thoughts gratefully received..

Mike
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Post#2 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:36 pm

If you have available all your installed software and registration numbers, You might consider a format of your drive and a fresh install of win 7. This might be more work upfront , but more trouble free down the road.
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Post#3 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:23 pm

Ah !! I bought the upgrade package - nice thought though and thanks for comment
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Post#4 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:25 pm

If you are tied to a upgrade, In the past I have been able to reformat my hardrive and install the upgrade. Early in the process it asked for my existing operating system disk (if you have one) to confirm ownership. After I was able to complete my fresh install. This was xp to vista, but we should be able to find out if it can be done from vista to 7.
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Post#5 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:45 pm

directions for a Clean Install with a Upgrade Windows 7 Version At windows seven forums
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/31 ... html?ltr=C
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Post#6 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:11 am

Many thanks for taking the trouble and advice given. Since the media center is in use every day by wifey to watch recorded stuff (we were away for 4 weeks in summer and she is still catching up ) I will take the cowards route in the first instance and do the upgrade - i have however located my Vista disc just in case I have problems and have printed off the instructions for clean install with ugrade disc.

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Post#7 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:12 am

Assuming you're a Freeview user then you'll like the improvements made in Win7. Red button capability was added, in band EPG updates and you'll be able to get Freeview HD as well (if you have a DVB-T2 tuner).
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Post#8 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:18 am

Further discussions with one of the contributors to this thread have made me decide not to proceed with the upgrade to my HPTC. Some of the 'useability' changes in the Recorded TV feature would not keep WAF at current level. I had hoped to get rid of my DMA2100s and use the DLNA feature of W7 with my Samsung Smart TVs but I will have to wait for the DMA2100s to die/become unusable before I can go that route - thanks to all for reading/commenting
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Post#9 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:21 am

Curious what changes in Recorded TV you're referring to?

I skipped VMC, going straight from XP MCE2005 to 7MC and don't remember any great changes in this area, apart from the programme thumbnails. It was a while ago now though.
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Post#10 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:45 am

I used Vista and Win 7. Win 7 was only better and more stable for me. Curious what advise has left you not wanting to upgrade?
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Post#11 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:21 am

gpatlanta wrote:Curious what advice has left you not wanting to upgrade?

Mike had read some of my other posts on TGB, and asked me what I thought about migrating to Win7 from Vista. I am happy for my reply to him to be published, so I have included it below.

One thing that I did not mention to Mike is that I have tried three times to migrate from Vista to Win7, and each time after running Win7 for a day or two I have found something else that I did not like, and so returned to Vista to give myself time to decide whether I really want to migrate to Win7. The most-recent migration to Win7 was aborted when I found that radio programmes broadcast in the UK TV MUXes balloon to unacceptable sizes when recorded under Win7. Example: a 5-minute voice recording of a BBC Radio 4 programme is 8MB when recorded as a TS file using TBSviewer, 35MB when recorded as a DVRMS file using Vista MC, and 115MB (!!!) when recorded as a WTV file using Win7 MC. I am prepared to accept a 35MB DVRMS file, because of its integration within MC and support of metadata; but a 115MB WTV file to too much.

A couple of days after reverting to Vista, I discovered that Win7 has "wtvconverter.exe", which will happily convert audio-only WTV files to DVRMS. So I will probably attempt migration again, and modify my DVR-manager batch script to invoke "wtvconverter.exe" for radio recordings when it is shuffling the WTV/DVRMS files between various directories.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

----------------------------------------------------------
Here is my message to Mike:

Migrating from Vista to Win7 is not an easy choice. I have been running
Vista for 3 years, and after solving the initial problems, it has been
fairly reliable. I have installed Win7 in another partition on my HTPC so
that I can boot either, but currently I am still using Vista.

For me, the main reason for migrating to Win7 is that Win7 can receive
DVB-T2 high-definition TV; Vista cannot receive DVB-T2 and never will.
However, currently there are no channels that can be classified as "DVB-T2
only", since BBC-HD is a rehash of HD material already broadcast in SD on
other channels. So you do not currently miss out on any programmes if you
cannot receive DVB-T2.

There are other differences, but they are minor (mostly). Here is a
selection:

(1) On my system, Win7 seems slower to start, and slower for the EPG to
appear and navigate. I have a suspicion that it gets faster as you use it,
possibly by keeping more of the EPG in memory as you scroll through it. By
the way, I do NOT have Windows installed on an SSD, but the Vista EPG is
fast even without an SSD.

(2) The Win7 EPG downloaded from the internet is not the same as the Vista
EPG. I did notice a couple of series that were not flagged as series in the
Win7 EPG, but it is difficult to know how widespread this problem is. I
have not seen any other UK users mention it, so it might be a relatively
infrequent occurrence. I would also expect the EPG for the 5 main UK
channels to be more reliable (the two series errors that I found were both
on ITV4).

(3) If you like to use pre-padding and post-padding on your recordings, and
force Media Center to use separate tuners for consecutive recordings by
using "Advanced Record" to increase the recording time by 5 minutes on
Vista, you need to use 10 minutes on Win7 (5 minutes does not work as
expected).

(4) If you use the "around x o'clock" option in "Advanced Record" to limit
which programmes can be recorded, on Vista that gives a window of
plus/minus 2 hours around the scheduled time; on Win7 the window is
plus/minus 15 minutes, which some users find too small to be useful.

(5) On Vista, display of the "Recorded TV" folder becomes very slow once
there are more than about 100 files in that folder. Win7 is supposed to
have fixed this, but I have not used Win7 enough to be sure.

(6) Win7 MC has several redesigned panels, which I dislike for two reasons:
the text is actually smaller than in Vista, and so more difficult to read,
and the "look and feel" is completely different from the Vista style. So
Vista has a single uniform style, whereas Win7 has two disparate styles.

If WAF is an important consideration, the best solution (if possible) would
be to have both Vista and Win7 installed, so that you can switch between
them without committing yourself to either. Continue recording on Vista,
while trying Win7 when there are no recordings scheduled. You will need to
have around 30GB available for another partition on your primary disk, and
to use a boot-manager that keeps the two OS installations entirely separate
(so that they cannot see each other). I use a product called "BootIt", but
it is quite "techie", so I would not recommend it for casual use.

Most people seem to like Win7, and dislike Vista. My experience (and
opinion) is more evenly balanced. I hope this is of some use.
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Post#12 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:10 pm

Some interesting points, and I can see where you're coming from on some of them. Just a few comments on top:

CyberSimian wrote:The most-recent migration to Win7 was aborted when I found that radio programmes broadcast in the UK TV MUXes balloon to unacceptable sizes when recorded under Win7. Example: a 5-minute voice recording of a BBC Radio 4 programme is 8MB when recorded as a TS file using TBSviewer, 35MB when recorded as a DVRMS file using Vista MC, and 115MB (!!!) when recorded as a WTV file using Win7 MC. I am prepared to accept a 35MB DVRMS file, because of its integration within MC and support of metadata; but a 115MB WTV file to too much.


I think I've mentioned it before, but rather than use Media Centre to record BBC radio I suggest using Radio Downloader to download the shows in mp3 format. It allows the equivalent of series' to be set up and it can then be left alone to chug away downloading files.

http://www.nerdoftheherd.com/tools/radiodld/

CyberSimian wrote:(2) The Win7 EPG downloaded from the internet is not the same as the Vista EPG. I did notice a couple of series that were not flagged as series in the Win7 EPG, but it is difficult to know how widespread this problem is. I have not seen any other UK users mention it, so it might be a relatively
infrequent occurrence.


This is an issue sometimes. With Vista TV Pack they changed the series detection logic from that used earlier. It's generally fine now, but does sometimes fail. I think the current Ian Hislop series on BBC2 is a victim of this. You can raise a Connect ticket to MS about these instances, but good luck getting the fix in before the series ends.

CyberSimian wrote:(4) If you use the "around x o'clock" option in "Advanced Record" to limit which programmes can be recorded, on Vista that gives a window of plus/minus 2 hours around the scheduled time; on Win7 the window is plus/minus 15 minutes, which some users find too small to be useful.


This annoyed the heck out of me when I first switched from MCE2005 to 7MC, but don't think about it now. In my experience 7MC is much better at scheduling the correct instances of shows, so I feel less need to force it to record around a certain time. It's not perfect though, as the scheduler relies on accurate EPG data to do this.

CyberSimian wrote:(5) On Vista, display of the "Recorded TV" folder becomes very slow once there are more than about 100 files in that folder. Win7 is supposed to have fixed this, but I have not used Win7 enough to be sure.


I have over 600 recordings spread over two hard disks and the performance is absolutely fine. The Recorded TV screen opens immediately, and I have a low spec machine.

CyberSimian wrote:(6) Win7 MC has several redesigned panels, which I dislike for two reasons:
the text is actually smaller than in Vista, and so more difficult to read, and the "look and feel" is completely different from the Vista style. So Vista has a single uniform style, whereas Win7 has two disparate styles.


I think it's fair to say that 7MC does have the main use screens redesigned, but that some of the lesser used screens are still recognisable from XP MCE, never mind Vista. I generally don't find the new design to be better or worse, just different, with one exception: the Other Showings panel in 7MC is virtually unusable compared to what was in XP MCE. Not so bad if there are only a couple of other instances, but get something that's on frequently and it's horrific.
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Post#13 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:55 am

As I have removed the shrink wrap from upgrade pack I will install on non HTPC vista PC that I have and have a look at Media Center - i will be able to access recorded TV files on HTPC but not schedule recordings (no TV Tuner) If it appears stable and usable I may install on HTPC ( of course I will remove from other PC as it is a single user licence) . The pluses for me will be native support for 4 tuners (which sometimes gets lost and needs registry repatched) and support for Smart TVs - the negatives could be microsoft update activity (which is now seems very low on Vista) and WAF. The series recording is a key factor for wife as she wiil often have back to back and multiple channels recording at same time and as we are able to spend time away the HTPC has to wake up /record/sleep for several weeks at a time - when we come back I have peace, quiet and extended pub visits whilst she does catch up viewing - win win I think.
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Post#14 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:47 pm

Well having been beaten into submission by the VistaEPG debacle I took the plunge and upgraded - it took forever but finally I have a 4 tuner Media Center recording from the guide -again ! But ! When MC starts up Live TV it soon starts to loose audio followed by jerky video which gets very bad and slowly recovers after variable periods - usually around a minute or so. I have looked at Task Manager whilst this is happening and the only thing I see that is different is the the OTA scan process mcGlidHost.exe runs for a while and this pushes up the CPU utilisation. I have read that this is because it is checking for guide updates and that makes sense.

Tuner drivers checked for latest level and indicates OK

The Windows 7 compatability tool indicated the configuration was good for the 7 upgrade but I am wondering if I need to upgrade my 8 year old processor from core duo 2 x 1.8GHz to the fastest that the mobo will take?

Anyone else had the jitters?

tks
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Post#15 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:29 am

MikeSin wrote:I have looked at Task Manager whilst this is happening and the only thing I see that is different is the the OTA scan process mcGlidHost.exe runs for a while and this pushes up the CPU utilisation. I have read that this is because it is checking for guide updates and that makes sense.

If you have got the Microsoft internet EPG working satisfactorily with Win7, you could disable reception of the broadcast EPG. It is a setting somewhere in WMC setup (I think WMC calls it the "in band" EPG).

The advantage of the broadcast EPG is that it is possible (in theory) to receive last-minute updates to the EPG to reflect programme schedule changes caused by (e.g.) live sport over-running (or news broadcasts, or...). However, you never had that with Vista, so perhaps you could manage without it with Win7. It is (of course) a no-cost solution.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Post#16 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:51 am

CyberS, tks for comments

More information . The video stuttering problem also occurs whever the WMC is asked to perform an additional task for example pressing the mute button (which with W7 causes subtitles to be displayed on the TV picture not a feature I had with Vista) or pressing the guide button to overlay the guide on the current picture or even moving the cursor over the live TV picture - audio and video sync is lost, gets progressively worse and slowly over about 30 -34 seconds or so generally resyncs itself. However yesterday it had periods when it never managed to re sync and I gave up watching live TV via WMC

I have tried running SFC to see if any files were corrupted - no . My video is integrated on the mobo so that cannot be changed , I am maxed out on supported memory (2GB) and therefore I have now ordered a faster processor going from 1.8GHz with 2MB L2 cache to 2.33GHz with 4MB L2 cache and await its arrival with crossed fingers
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Post#17 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:03 pm

MikeSin wrote:CyberS, tks for comments
pressing the mute button (which with W7 causes subtitles to be displayed on the TV picture not a feature I had with Vista)


There is a setting under TV/closed captioning that turns off the captioning if you dont want it. It defaults to "on when muted"

As for the stuttering, it is generally recognized that Win7 is more CPU/GPU intensive than Vista. Many people went through this when win7 was first released. There were lots of threads on this on the old Green Button, but alas, there is no archive of it.
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Post#18 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:30 am

Thanks , turned off subtitles.

Whlst I am waiting for processor to arrive I continue to explore what might be causing the stutter - I have now realized that not all channels have the problem and I am going to going through them all and match them to the muxes from Crystal Palace. And here is the really strange (for me) behaviour. So BBC 1 is freezing and not catching up until I press the Record Live TV button - and within seconds the picure is perfect without stutter and is recording- I would have thought that the extra work to record would have made it worse but no, the opposite. And no recorded programs have the problem so it is not RF signal related.
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Post#19 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:51 am

So I have the processor but before I rip the PC apart I would like a clean situation and I have a problem left over from the upgrade. If I boot without the W7 CD I get a "winload.exe" error. With the W7 disk I get to choose between vista and W7 but I would like to get away from this step so that it boots into W7 straightaway. I have tried startup repair from the CD which identifies the W7 as the drive d: operating system (Vista was on c: and I assumed the upgrade would keep the drive letter the same?) but no problems are found. I have tried using bootrec.exe, changing the drive letter to d: and running /scanos - 0 systems was the result. Rebuildbcd, FixMBR etc have no effect - I can still boot inot W7 with the W7 CD however so I have not made it worse ! phew - any suggestions?

Thanks
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Post#20 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:07 am

So the processor went in without a problem and after fighting for a day with the fact that I had broken the Microsoft DRM rules by changing the processor I found a Fixit that allowed me to watch Live TV and Recorded programs. And I still have the freezing on Live Tv But what has become apparent is that it only occurs on a few channels - BBC1 BBC2 BBc News and I think on BBc3 and BBC4 . These are all on the same mux PSB1 but so is the Parliament channel which does not exhibit the problem, The signal is 100% quality. If I select BBC1 after a few seconds it starts to loose sync between picture and sound gets progressively worse until it is freeze frame and then starts to recover - it can re-occur when there is too much screen display activity or requests such as guide display. However pressing record makes it resync and maintain sync

When the problem exists switching to ITV or any non PSB1 channel is met with immediate sync which is maintained.

Watching BBC1 in a minimised screen is fine, dragging the minimised screen to a larger size eventually results in freezing etc,

CPU utilisation is around 25% when the problem was occurring. Screen resolution is 1920 x 1080 32 bit via hdmi to a samusung 32" flatscreen

I am at a loss to think of what to do next
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